Are you praying for Roeder?

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ethereality said:
Thank you for this thread; it had not occurred to me to pray for him. I shall, although I certainly do not see the point: God already knows what he needs, and you’ve already apparently talked with him about it.

EDIT: Concerning the rest of my post below: I misread your post. The “in” of “inexcusable” did not register.

How can you say that? It is not far at all from inexcusable: it seems very likely the man he killed was not repentant of the murders he was committing. Am I ignorant of his situation? Had the recently deceased repented of his sins and turned to God, and Roeder mistakenly killed him, thinking otherwise?

The fact is that murderers deserve to die (i.e. unrepentant ones still living in their sin), and, in fact, the Catechism of the Catholic Church teaches that, if society cannot be protected from them, they should die – it is only by God’s mercy that they live. While the recently deceased (I’ve forgotten his name) belonged in prison, and thus killing him was in fact immoral, it is not “far from” inexcusable like you suggest.
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i can’t figure out what you are saying here… 1st you seem to be empathetic toward Roeder and then Tiller… and … well… i can’t answer 'cause don’t get where you are coming from…
 
seekerz said:
…for him and for the people who rejoice (or are not displeased) by what what he did.

Quite apart from the fact that murder is murder regardless of one’s beliefs about abortion, it upsets me when people rejoice over the killing of anyone. As a child, I was taught never to rejoice when bad things (even well-deserved punishment) happen to other people. It makes sense, since but for the grace of God, we all as sinners deserving of punishment.

I remember how it upset me when people rejoiced at Saddam’s execution: rejoicing in freedom from oppression is one thing - rejoicing in the killing of an oppressor in quite another.
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i totally agree…

but there is nothing wrong with rejoicing in** justice** being administered…

doesn’t anyone see the justice in what happened to Tiller?

“He who sheds men’s blood, by man shall his blood be shed” (somewhere in the Bible)

and eye for an eye…(also in God’s word) was once God’s law… Does God change? Jesus said to turn the other cheek when someone does you wrong… what about when some monster is killing an innocent person who does not have such an option… (helpless)… If that were the case… if God wanted us to just forget about people being led to their death… Our world would not have survived to the 21st century… it would be (have been) survival of the fittest… which is what Darwin espoused… and which led to people like Hitler and etc… also taking that view… The strong against the weak…

i believe in Life and freedom… for those who love civilization & obey its laws … not for those who wantonly murder their fellow humans… (wherever those innocents may reside)…

i have no problem with capital punishment… in or outside the prison walls… if that’s what it takes to save innocent CRIME-less people… and from all i can see… there is no other way because serial murderers cannot, it seems, be restrained in this society… whether we are talking about Dahmer or Bundy or whomever…
 
Drawmack said:
Some of us might not see the point in discussing with someone who simply lodges personal attacks against anyone who disagrees with them.
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any arguments against that last post?

didn’t think so
 
distracted said:
He needs our prayers… (i think he does anyway… one never knows…)

you may not agree with what he did…

though I say his crime was far from inexcusable…

In any case, we should all extend our Christian love to him…
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Yes it is important to pray for Roeder- are you praying for Tiller? He is certainly desperately needs prayer as well.
 
Feanor2 said:
Yes it is important to pray for Roeder- are you praying for Tiller? He is certainly desperately needs prayer as well.
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i would if i thought he was in Purgatory…

if he is he’s probably in the lowest levels… but god knows…

i guess i could do that… If he’s not there the prayers will benefit someone who is…
 
distracted said:
any arguments against that last post?

didn’t think so
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  1. Abortion is wrong because it’s murder
  2. Roeder murdered Tiller
  3. Two wrongs do not make a right.
Thus: Roeder, at this point, is no better than Tiller.
 
maybe its kinda telling that people don’t seem to be sobbing over Roeder as much as Tiller…

maybe people agree more than they will admit… that he is a form of martyr… he DID sacrifice his life… for the unborn… “misguided” as many seem to think he is…
 
distracted said:
i would if i thought he was in Purgatory…

if he is he’s probably in the lowest levels… but god knows…

i guess i could do that… If he’s not there the prayers will benefit someone who is…
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Indeed both are in need of prayers. We have no way of knowing the eternal fate of anyone save Mary, the Old Testament Saints, and the Saints of the Church.

Some might say we know the state of Judas’ soul but that is debatable as well.

I pray that I do not face final damnation and I pray that all souls are brought to Heaven. I hope that those whom I help through my prayer may help me in my need as I will surely need it.
 
distracted said:
maybe its kinda telling that people don’t seem to be sobbing over Roeder as much as Tiller…

maybe people agree more than they will admit… that he is a form of martyr… he DID sacrifice his life… for the unborn… “misguided” as many seem to think he is…
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Anyone indicating that Tiller is any kind of martyr is wrong. Claiming that Roeder was acting as God’s sword is wrong as well.
 
Feanor2 said:
Anyone indicating that Tiller is any kind of martyr is wrong. Claiming that Roeder was acting as God’s sword is wrong as well.
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what i meant was that since Roeder doesn’t seem to be getting much sympathy from anyone but me (… and God)…

that tht may tend to indicate that people don’t feel his soul is in as much danger as Tiller’s…

so we’re doing good here, in some ways…

still its odd that people always harp on Tiller’s “rights” and so-called rights and… how he is created in God’s image… and blah, blah blah…

i say a murderer forfeits his rights … like Ted Bundy, Scott Peterson, etc…

Tiller killed more people than probably all the inmates on death row in Texas and Oklahoma and wherever… combined…
 
Drawmack said:
  1. Abortion is wrong because it’s murder
  2. Roeder murdered Tiller
  3. Two wrongs do not make a right.
Thus: Roeder, at this point, is no better than Tiller.
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so Roeder is just as much a murdereer as tiller?

i suppose he’s just as much a murderer as Hitler too? or DAhme? or Bundy?

i give up…
 
distracted said:
so Roeder is just as much a murdereer as tiller?

i suppose he’s just as much a murderer as Hitler too? or DAhme? or Bundy?

i give up…
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A murderer is a murderer. Killing 1 or 1,000 or 1,000,000 does not make one more of a murderer. If you kill 1 you are just as separated from God as if you kill 1,000,000.

If there are other sins along with the murder (like with a serial killer or a genocidal maniac) that can be a mitigating circumstance but murder, in and of itself, is murder it does not matter how many you kill.

So, is Roeder just as much a murderer as Hitler – Yes. Is Roeder just as much a murderer as Dahlmer (which is who I assume you meant by DAhme) – Yes. Is Roeder just as much a murderer as Bundy – Yes. Is Roeder a genocidal maniac – No. Is Roeder a homosexual who murdered the men he had sex with to stop his secret from getting out – No. Is Roeder a cannibal – No.

You can give up all you want; when you’re ready to be logical and discuss something on it’s own merits instead of throwing out discogent comparisons let me know.
 
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