Are you pro-gun, or anti-gun?

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As has been said, the people are free to seek to change the constitution - it is not, or should not, be viewed as fixed forever, like fundamental moral truths. However, I think some Americans see their constitution in just that way - as though it were God-given, rather than man-made.
I agree, people often do see it that way. I think if half of the population changes the constitution while the other half says not to, then that would justify a split, where the US should become two nations.

…the constitution was written in Americas toddler years. At this point IMO, it’s far too late to make changes without creating a divide.
 
I agree, people often do see it that way. I think if half of the population changes the constitution while the other half says not to, then that would justify a split, where the US should become two nations.

…the constitution was written in Americas toddler years. At this point IMO, it’s far too late to make changes without creating a divide.
A split on one issue unlikely justifies splitting the country. The status quo will simply remain.

But, the divide you refer to exists whether or not you move to change the constitution. The question is - is there a sizable majority for change? In a law respecting democracy, some must bend to the will of the majority.
 
I agree, people often do see it that way. I think if half of the population changes the constitution while the other half says not to, then that would justify a split, where the US should become two nations.

…the constitution was written in Americas toddler years. At this point IMO, it’s far too late to make changes without creating a divide.
Do you understand why some of us see this as truly crazy talk? How would the logistics of a national split work over a difference like this? Would everyone pack up from each side and do house swaps over the new national border or something?
 
Why not examine political policies ‘case by case’?
Obama administration lures migrant children from Central America, then refuses to reveal the data on how many immigrants have flooded the border. The media is denied access.

Obama administration uses IRS to target conservative groups, then looses emails and recycles all computers involved to avoid detection.

Obama administration gets 5 Americans in Benghazi killed -information kept secret from American people.

Obama administration with 41 democrats rally to overturn first amendment to restrict free speech on political matters. Ted Cruz rallies against them, they stand their ground.

Etc.

The Democrats work in secrecy, doing things behind the American peoples backs. I think their motives are to turn America into exactly what the EU is… They’ve already mandated healthcare now more gun restrictions too? Democratic policies always follow other models, they never lead. I want leadership.
 
Do you understand why some of us see this as truly crazy talk? How would the logistics of a national split work over a difference like this? Would everyone pack up from each side and do house swaps over the new national border or something?
Americans won’t follow these laws. Your only other option is to imprison half your population who will not turn over their weapons. Just trace their phone records to see if they’ve been in contact with gun shops and there’s enough reasonable suspicion to begin investigating. Check the gun logs, and there’s probable cause to make the arrests. Nice. Progressives criminalizing the traditional American citizen. :mad:
 
Discussion of political parties or individuals is not allowed in this sub-forum, and it will cause this thread to be closed. So if you want to continue this thread…
I said Obama administration. Not barrack Hussein Obama.

Then replace “Democrat” with “progressive”.
 
Vehemently anti-gun. Maybe if we didn’t have so many guns in our society, there would be much much fewer gun deaths. Coming from a country that doesn’t allow guns, America’s obsession for them scares me.
 
…They’ve already mandated healthcare…
Are you against healthcare, or against that you have to have it? Do you prefer a situation whereby health insurance is something you can have if you earn enough money to afford it, but if not…tough luck? America is a terrible place to be ill if you don’t have health insurance!

What do you think about the model they have in Australia? Everybody pays a small hit (~1.5%) of income on their income taxes, and in return you a able to:
  • get most and sometimes all of the cost of your visits to the doctor payed for;
  • get most routine tests payed for;
  • be treated in a public hospital at negligible cost.
    If you want other frills - such as access to private hospitals, your choice of doctor/surgeon in hospital, etc., then you can (in addition) pay your own way or (more likely) take out private health insurance.
This system ensures that healthcare is not denied to anyone just because they don’t have the money, and by all accounts has proved very efficient. It has widespread support in Australia because (a) it works; (b) it is “decent and just” social policy, whereby the better off help the less well off.
 
Americans won’t follow these laws. Your only other option is to imprison half your population who will not turn over their weapons. Just trace their phone records to see if they’ve been in contact with gun shops and there’s enough reasonable suspicion to begin investigating. Check the gun logs, and there’s probable cause to make the arrests. Nice. Progressives criminalizing the traditional American citizen. :mad:
So – you believe that if the requisite % of the American population and States agreed to change the Constitution to remove the right to own firearms, this would be rejected by large numbers of Americans? Democratic principles and the rule of law would be jettisoned? This is the argument that says the Constitution as written is “God-given”, for men will not accept it being changed, regardless of the will of the majority! Would you raise the same argument in defence of the abortion laws?

How weird is it that something as unfortunate as the ownership of lethal weapons is described as characterising the “traditional American citizen”! :confused:
 
“They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety.” ― Benjamin Franklin,
 
Are you against healthcare
What an odd thing to say! A person can be against this administration’s plan for healthcare, especially in the ways that it tramples personal religious liberty, without being “against healthcare” in general…! 😉
 
“They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety.” ― Benjamin Franklin,
But this simply begs the question, rather than illuminating. Is it an essential liberty for you to own guns? I think not.
 
What an odd thing to say! A person can be against this administration’s plan for healthcare, especially in the ways that it tramples personal religious liberty, without being “against healthcare” in general…! 😉
A bit selective in your quoting Georgia’s…I don’t think religious concerns underpinned his point!
 
But this simply begs the question, rather than illuminating. Is it an essential liberty for you to own guns? I think not.
Then we think different. Course its not essential you practice your right to own a gun. Its not essential one lives in America in the land of the free either which I love and call home. Its not essential you defend yourself if need be either. Is it essential for my families safety and mine if need be, I sleep better. But I do believe its essential the rights are there for those who do feel the need to protect their family.
 
Then we think different. Course its not essential you practice your right to own a gun. Its not essential one lives in America in the land of the free either which I love and call home. Its not essential you defend yourself if need be either. Is it essential for my families safety and mine if need be, I sleep better. But I do believe its essential the rights are there for those who do feel the need to protect their family.
No that right is not there for everybody. It is there only for the strongest, the fittest and those that qualify for the right. Survival of the fittest rules.
 
No that right is not there for everybody. It is there only for the strongest, the fittest and those that qualify for the right. Survival of the fittest rules.
Only in America, I know the kids need more structure and family activity. We should keep the needs and problems in order.
 
Then we think different. Course its not essential you practice your right to own a gun. Its not essential one lives in America in the land of the free either which I love and call home. Its not essential you defend yourself if need be either. Is it essential for my families safety and mine if need be, I sleep better. But I do believe its essential the rights are there for those who do feel the need to protect their family.
We do. You form a judgement about the merits of a gun in **your **hands, and conclude it is good. But the judgement that matters is on the merits of guns in the hands of just about anyone who wants one. For that is what this “right” delivers, and I see no good in that.
 
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