Are you pro-gun, or anti-gun?

[Gary_Sheldrake]

From Dogen: So? All you have is a correlation between two variables. You can’t say that one is causing the other.

These are rather simple correlations Dogen. Guns being involved in all gun deaths is a simple matter to comprehend. The fact that most people who are killed by guns are killed by someone they know who has a gun or killed with their own gun are facts. How are these hard to understand?

There are more ways to die than just from gunshots.

So it follows, that we should add gunshots for good measure?

It’s possible for people to own guns and be at a higher risk of gunshot wounds, but at a lower overall risk or being killed than people who don’t.

The data shows the opposite and I have posted the data. People do not commit suicide with guns they don’t own. People do not die from gunshots in domestic disputes where a gun is not involved. People don’t accidentally kill themselves, family members or friends with guns that they do not own. These are the ways in which most people who die from gunshots. They are not killed by the fabled home intruder, or a masked bandit who came out of their television set. They are killed for the most part by people they know with guns or killed by their own guns. Again, this is an intelligence test with evolutionary consequences, and people are free to fail it by denying the facts. People who are failing this test are dying as a consequence every day.

Yes, people who don’t own effective survival tools are more fit to survive.
Good one.

The data suggests that guns are probably not a very good survival tool.

Thank you,
Gary

 

[GaryTaylor]

I do thank those in Arlington who died in the service to our nation. But that is a far cry from having to thank private gun owners who are merely enjoying the fruits of those sacrifices.

Its the correct sequence we must contend with here. Life-Liberty and the “unfortunate reality” it must be protected, individual and collective, obviously not as our government would like to suggest at times, but nevertheless the fact remains.

They can’t be divided, Life-Liberty and the right to survive to enjoy Life and Liberty. Otherwise you have oppression or repression or something already thought of and rightfully rejected by these founding fathers. Price, Madison, Jefferson, and so forth.

Listen I don’t like a lot of things either, but the truth is the truth. The fact we have a responsibility with these rights to correctly apply them within our social living is of course always open to discussion. But removing them never is. Which California I believe is on the right track.

 

[GaryTaylor]

Further, Were the power of [this broad undefined social-political agenda] to be established in the latitude contended for, it would subvert the very foundations, and transmute the very nature of the limited Government established by the people of America.[Madison’s argument]

 

[JRRTFAN]

This is a poorly worded survey at best, obviously put up by an anti-gun aficionado. Are you pro-gun when a thug is about to beat your brains out with a ball bat or are you anti-gun.

Have you stopped beating your wife?

 

[Isaiah45_9]

Just wanted to add a little fact:

The lowest reported gun owning state in the nation is DC - 3.6%

The highest reported gun murders in the nation is DC - 16.5%

The highest reported gun owning state in the nation is Wyoming - 59.7%

The 9th lowest gun murders in the nation is Wyoming - 0.9%

The lowest gun murders in the nation is Vermont - 0.3%; who has a 42% of reported gun owners.

Source.

 

[GaryTaylor]

I mean truely we all see the sequence how we arrived here by hook or crook. We split from the Kingdom of England to be “free”…remember? Are we free with the Life liberty and freedom we contended for? The false wolf calls by our wayward republicans and democrats don’t change anything, in fact they affirm we really need to pay attention to the intentional sublime social political agenda impressed upon the world and to divide the same ole, north-south, racial, social morality and the rest of the usual strident clamor of evil. This time for a great deal of the wrong reasons which subvert the very principles, such as life with abortion. Look at the reproduction rate in the US this year. The family, the US prison system and our mental heath issues, let alone the atrocity of the VA which I am sorry, but in my mind its the same as always only with a different twist, where actions speak louder than words this time. Outcome still the same.

Further these delusional politicians driven by greed by the one percent financial backing has created insanity throughout the middle-east, with Putin, Egypt, Syria, and a host of others. We in reality have no choice as always but to keep our rights and correctly apply them.

I say we put God back in the schools immediately since a Christian paradigm is so often bought up in these dialogues.

 

[LeafByNiggle]

Just wanted to add a little fact:

The lowest reported gun owning state in the nation is DC - 3.6%

The highest reported gun murders in the nation is DC - 16.5%

The highest reported gun owning state in the nation is Wyoming - 59.7%

The 9th lowest gun murders in the nation is Wyoming - 0.9%

The lowest gun murders in the nation is Vermont - 0.3%; who has a 42% of reported gun owners.

Source.

This is an excellent example of how statistics, even when numerically correct, can lead to misinterpretation. The unspoken implication of the above statistics is that high gun ownership is causative for lower gun murders, and that if areas with low guns and high crime would just increase their gun ownership, crime would go down. Well, the stats cited above do not prove that at all. They do show a correlation, which is not the same thing as causation. In this case there is an alternate explanation for the correlation that is much more reasonable. That is that both elements (gun ownerships rates and murder rates) are themselves caused by third, as yet unmentioned factor - wealth or poverty.

States or regions with a few prosperous spread-out individuals can well-afford to buy guns to protect themselves. Plus they see themselves as a more attractive target because of their riches. So they are more incentivized to buy guns. That explains why Wyoming and Vermont have higher gun ownership rates than DC. And when it comes to violent crime, that is also associated with poverty and the dense living sirutation that goes with poverty. Such areas have low hopes for betterment through legal means. So a higher proportion of people in poorer areas turn to crime, and so murder rates go up.

Therefore if we want to make DC enjoy the same low murder rate as Wyoming or Vermont, the thing to do would be not to give everybody in DC a gun. The thing to do would be to dump a ton of money into DC and thin out the population until it has comparable population density and per capita wealth as Vermont or Wyoming.

 

[Isaiah45_9]

This is an excellent example of how statistics, even when numerically correct, can lead to misinterpretation. The unspoken implication of the above statistics is that high gun ownership is causative for lower gun murders, and that if areas with low guns and high crime would just increase their gun ownership, crime would go down. Well, the stats cited above do not prove that at all. They do show a correlation, which is not the same thing as causation. In this case there is an alternate explanation for the correlation that is much more reasonable. That is that both elements (gun ownerships rates and murder rates) are themselves caused by third, as yet unmentioned factor - wealth or poverty.

States or regions with a few prosperous spread-out individuals can well-afford to buy guns to protect themselves. Plus they see themselves as a more attractive target because of their riches. So they are more incentivized to buy guns. That explains why Wyoming and Vermont have higher gun ownership rates than DC. And when it comes to violent crime, that is also associated with poverty and the dense living sirutation that goes with poverty. Such areas have low hopes for betterment through legal means. So a higher proportion of people in poorer areas turn to crime, and so murder rates go up.

Therefore if we want to make DC enjoy the same low murder rate as Wyoming or Vermont, the thing to do would be not to give everybody in DC a gun. The thing to do would be to dump a ton of money into DC and thin out the population until it has comparable population density and per capita wealth as Vermont or Wyoming.

No. It shows that the problem is people, not guns.

Otherwise, we should go back to the prohibition and take alcohol out. Since alcohol kills more than guns.

 

[LeafByNiggle]

No. It shows that the problem is people, not guns.

If that is what it shows, it also shows that the solution is people, not guns…

 

[GaryTaylor]

People are always the problem and always the solution. The propaganda driven media is more interested in creating mass killers, sort of like RT-TV, mind control. Its intentional agenda as I see it and basic promotion of the seven deadly sins, and as you see, they are indeed deadly.

If your not for God you can’t be for America, as Phil of Duck World states.

 

[GaryTaylor]

Your under a strong spell, all of those except us who where taught to respect and honor our God given “rights”. And those same people have a perceptional awareness of these…

google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=2&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0CCsQFjAB&url=http%3A%2F%2Fen.wikipedia.org%2Fwiki%2FSeven_deadly_sins&ei=HoCLU423NdWrsATn74Aw&usg=AFQjCNGTg87t91Oy_dHAruHfUaZZNo81yw

“usually given as wrath, avarice, sloth, pride, lust, envy, and gluttony. Each is a form of Idolatry-of-Self wherein the subjective reigns over the objective”

“According to Catholic moral thought, the seven deadly sins are not discrete from other sins, but are instead the origin (“capital” comes from the Latin caput, head) of the others. Vices can be either venial or mortal, depending on the situation, but “are called ‘capital’ because they engender other sins, other vices”.”

God and Country.

 

[Gary_Sheldrake]

Just wanted to add a little fact:

The lowest reported gun owning state in the nation is DC - 3.6%

The highest reported gun murders in the nation is DC - 16.5%

The highest reported gun owning state in the nation is Wyoming - 59.7%

The 9th lowest gun murders in the nation is Wyoming - 0.9%

The lowest gun murders in the nation is Vermont - 0.3%; who has a 42% of reported gun owners.

Source.

DC is a little chunk of swampland turf sandwiched between Virginia and Maryland, where gun laws are very relaxed. Now, I wonder where them there guns is a comin’ from, Lester. You can’t have laws in just one town and hope that they’ll have any effect.

Wyoming gun rates per capita and gun deaths per capita are highly impacted by the population numbers in that state. For instance, there are no gun laws on the moon, and no gun deaths on the moon either.

 

[Isaiah45_9]

If that is what it shows, it also shows that the solution is people, not guns…

Of course

 

[Isaiah45_9]

DC is a little chunk of swampland turf sandwiched between Virginia and Maryland, where gun laws are very relaxed. Now, I wonder where them there guns is a comin’ from, Lester. You can’t have laws in just one town and hope that they’ll have any effect.

Wyoming gun rates per capita and gun deaths per capita are highly impacted by the population numbers in that state. For instance, there are no gun laws on the moon, and no gun deaths on the moon either.

You understand that the percentage is a ratio.

And using the moon as an analogy is just… meh

Adios.

 

[Gary_Sheldrake]

You understand that the percentage is a ratio.

And using the moon as an analogy is just… meh

Adios.

Good Evening Isaiah: Yes, I do. I also understand that the states with the highest gun ownership rates are in the south, and the same states have the highest number of gun injuries and deaths per capita. The northeastern states have the lowest gun ownership rates and the lowest gun violence rates per capita. Wyoming is what is called a statistical outlier, and using it to make a point is what is called a ruse.

What I will now offer here to shed some truth into the discussion, is a compelling number of statistics showing that states with the highest gun ownership rates have the highest gun violence rates, while states with the lowest gun ownership rates have the lowest gun violence rates. The data I am offering here covers all of the United States, rather than one statistical outlier, which is what you have done with Wyoming. Readers with a basic background in analyzing data will appreciate the difference in the scope of the data between what you have presented and what I am presenting here:

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_violence_in_the_United_States_by_state

Source: Uniform Crime Reports. Crime in the U.S. 2010. FBI.

Hopefully this will give a broader and more comprehensive view of the situation as it actually is.

Thank you,
Gary

 

[LongingSoul]

People are always the problem and always the solution. The propaganda driven media is more interested in creating mass killers, sort of like RT-TV, mind control. Its intentional agenda as I see it and basic promotion of the seven deadly sins, and as you see, they are indeed deadly.

If your not for God you can’t be for America, as Phil of Duck World states.

Have we stepped into the twilight zone?

 

[Gary_Sheldrake]

If that is what it shows, it also shows that the solution is people, not guns…

The problem is not guns. The problem is people with guns.

 

[Gary_Sheldrake]

Isaiah45:No. It shows that the problem is people, not guns.

Hello again Isaiah: The problem is people with guns.

Otherwise, we should go back to the prohibition and take alcohol out. Since alcohol kills more than guns.

Because alcohol kills people is no reason to smoke, drive with your eyes closed, dive into an empty swimming pool, or - own a gun,

 

[LongingSoul]

No. It shows that the problem is people, not guns.

Otherwise, we should go back to the prohibition and take alcohol out. Since alcohol kills more than guns.

Nobody is calling for a complete ban on guns. They are part and parcel of police and military work. They are essential for farmers and have other commercial uses. They are a fun passtime for sporting shooters. All of these areas of gun use are relatively regulated and safe. The purpose is clear and primary in these situations and the potential for abuse and misuse is limited.

The problem with guns promoted as the way to meet someones need for ‘security of person’, is similar to when alcohol is promoted as a way to meet a fundamental need in someone. When it’s used for dutch courage or as a sedative or even as a way of killing emotional or physical pain.

When a huge emphasis is put into these products as being a ‘saviour’ of some sort, that’s when they become a problematic part of society. They cause more harm than the good they are supposed to be for and people develop an inordinate reliance on them to the exclusion of healthy solutions to their unmet needs.

I don’t know about US attitudes to alcohol, but it is a significant problem in Australia that is constantly being addressed with legal restrictions. Nightclubs and bars are forced to have lockout policies and limited night time trading hours. It is illegal to serve a drunk person alcohol over the counter of clubs etc. etc.

These measures are all subject to civil rights objections, but at the end of the day, most sensible people understand that the common good outweighs the individuals right to drink himself to death or knock around other club goers and the public.

No one wants guns eliminated from society and no one wants alcohol eliminated from society. They just want the type of regulations that encourage people to regard guns realistically and weigh the right they are said to serve against how they serve the common good of all.

 

[Isaiah45_9]

Good Evening Isaiah: Yes, I do. I also understand that the states with the highest gun ownership rates are in the south, and the same states have the highest number of gun injuries and deaths per capita. The northeastern states have the lowest gun ownership rates and the lowest gun violence rates per capita. Wyoming is what is called a statistical outlier, and using it to make a point is what is called a ruse.

What I will now offer here to shed some truth into the discussion, is a compelling number of statistics showing that states with the highest gun ownership rates have the highest gun violence rates, while states with the lowest gun ownership rates have the lowest gun violence rates. The data I am offering here covers all of the United States, rather than one statistical outlier, which is what you have done with Wyoming. Readers with a basic background in analyzing data will appreciate the difference in the scope of the data between what you have presented and what I am presenting here:

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_violence_in_the_United_States_by_state

Source: Uniform Crime Reports. Crime in the U.S. 2010. FBI.

Hopefully this will give a broader and more comprehensive view of the situation as it actually is.

Thank you,
Gary

Did you know you can sort on that link you gave?

Out of the top 10 states with the highest percentage of gun ownership - 7 are on the north.