Are you pro-gun, or anti-gun?

[Zoltan_Cobalt]

Give me an example of what situation might warrant a revolution?

A great example of a situation that really did warrant a revolution was an attempt to disarm American colonists.

The American War of Independence began on April 19, 1775, when 700 Redcoats under the command of Major John Pitcairn left Boston to seize American arms at Lexington and Concord. Pitcarin was repelled by militia and individuals who literally chased him back to Boston. Only British reinforcements dispatched from Boston saved the British expedition from annihilation—and the fact that the Americans started running out of ammunition and gun powder.

So, “the shot that was heard around the world” was fired because a tyrant wanted to disarm America. A great reason for a rebellion.

Do you really think that Commonwealth countries are controlled by England? Perhaps you do. You may not have taken modern history at high school or mayby it’s just not taught in the US.

I remember Sister Mary Francis telling us in grammar school that the British Commonwealth was a group of countries who have Queen Elizabeth II as their reigning constitutional monarch. These countries were Canada, Australia, New Zeland, a few others and, of course, Great Britain. She told us that Australia was officially known as The Monarchy of Australia and the Queen’s title was "Elizabeth the Second, by the Grace of God, Queen of Australia and Her other Realms and Territories, Head of the Commonwealth. Is there any thing more i should know?

Betty Smith asked Sister if we had to curtsey to the Queen. Sister, told us all that Americans respect leaders of other countries but do not bow or curtsey to kings or queens. I was shocked and impressed. Coming from an Eastern European country I was taught that if you didn’t bow to the monarch you could have your head cut off. Wow! I LOVE being an American.

And wait a minute there… I didn’t say Americans are delusional. I said your idea of what America is, is. The US government and her ‘minions’ (as the army and police are referred to by certain people), came to Australias and other countries aid during the war and for the last few years the US troops have been marching in Darwins ANZAC parades alongside us. That’s a whole different issue. Here you addressing ‘the people’… not the US army and other government forces.

Yes, American troops march in the ANZAC parades and then party with the ANZACs who buy the Fosters and thank our guys for saving your butts during WWII.

The U.S. Military is made up of American citizens and our military is under civilian control…so we are back to “the people” again.

 

[GaryTaylor]

The government is seriously upsetting the tranquil state in the US, look at the days news in the VA, absolutely barbaric, they have not Doctors, but receptionists killing people with waiting lists and a major cover up as we talk. One guy, eight years in nut ward without seeing a doctor. Ought to give you and idea of how the state is doing with mental health.

google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=3&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0CC4QqQIwAg&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.cnn.com%2F2014%2F06%2F23%2Fpolitics%2Fveterans-care-va-report%2F&ei=bMaoU9yzKs2UyASAwoDgCw&usg=AFQjCNFj6hV4ewvFdlQJyy8eKcJOGs-iLA&bvm=bv.69620078,d.aWw

Traitorous agenda. Everyone should stop going to war for them. Everyone should throw all the weapons in the ocean and Australia should go first since social evolution in this period of transition appears to be going so well down under. Maybe the word will get passed along. Them truly we could all celebrate the down under anti gun agenda. I’m all for God Country and Peace. No unsolved conflict around to keep me awake at night.

 

[GaryTaylor]

The government is seriously upsetting the tranquil state in the US, look at the days news in the VA, absolutely barbaric, they have not Doctors, but receptionists killing people with waiting lists and a major cover up as we talk. One guy, eight years in nut ward without seeing a doctor. Ought to give you and idea of how the state is doing with mental health.

google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=3&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0CC4QqQIwAg&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.cnn.com%2F2014%2F06%2F23%2Fpolitics%2Fveterans-care-va-report%2F&ei=bMaoU9yzKs2UyASAwoDgCw&usg=AFQjCNFj6hV4ewvFdlQJyy8eKcJOGs-iLA&bvm=bv.69620078,d.aWw

Traitorous agenda. Everyone should stop going to war for them. Everyone should throw all the weapons in the ocean and Australia should go first since social evolution in this period of transition appears to be going so well down under. Maybe the word will get passed along. Then truly we could all celebrate the down under anti gun agenda. I’m all for God Country and Peace. No unsolved conflict around to keep me awake at night.

 

[Rau]

I remember Sister Mary Francis telling us in grammar school that the British Commonwealth was a group of countries who have Queen Elizabeth II as their reigning constitutional monarch. These countries were Canada, Australia, New Zeland, a few others…

Yes, but what control does a constitutional monarch exercise these days? The Queen acts, quite literally, as a servant, for so long as the peoples of commonwealth countries choose to keep her. For countries other than the UK, her role is almost nil, as the local Governor General carries out all duties (which are largely administrative and ceremonial, involving little or no independent action of substance). A decision to abandon the monarchy requires, at a minimum, an alternative means to appoint the GG (since current law has him or her formally appointed by the Queen, though the latter does so automatically at the behest of the relevant national Government).

 

[DianePa]

Yes, but what control does a constitutional monarch exercise these days? The Queen acts, quite literally, as a servant, for so long as the peoples of commonwealth countries choose to keep her. For countries other than the UK, her role is almost nil, as the local Governor General carries out all duties (which are largely administrative and ceremonial, involving little or no independent action of substance). A decision to abandon the monarchy requires, at a minimum, an alternative means to appoint the GG (since current law has him or her formally appointed by the Queen, though the latter does so automatically at the behest of the relevant national Government).

Oh how I would like to live like that ‘servant’. Rich beyond her means and supported by the British taxpayers who seem to love their monarch. She does after all bring in a lot of tourist trade. Her children and grandchildren are guaranteed to live the life of luxury. Long live the British taxpayer. :rolleyes

 

[Rau]

The government is seriously upsetting the tranquil state in the US, look at the days news in the VA, absolutely barbaric, they have not Doctors, but receptionists killing people with waiting lists and a major cover up as we talk. One guy, eight years in nut ward without seeing a doctor. Ought to give you and idea of how the state is doing with mental health.

google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=3&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0CC4QqQIwAg&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.cnn.com%2F2014%2F06%2F23%2Fpolitics%2Fveterans-care-va-report%2F&ei=bMaoU9yzKs2UyASAwoDgCw&usg=AFQjCNFj6hV4ewvFdlQJyy8eKcJOGs-iLA&bvm=bv.69620078,d.aWw
.

Presumably the decision to enter wars in Iraq and Afghanistan massively ramped up the workload for the VA, and Congress/Government were not asked for resources to respond, or did not accept that advice. It ought to be clear where responsibility lies, but I’ll wager they are not the ones to take responsibility. Another good topic, but for a different thread.

 

[Rau]

Oh how I would like to live like that ‘servant’. Rich beyond her means and supported by the British taxpayers who seem to love their monarch. She does after all bring in a lot of tourist trade. Her children and grandchildren are guaranteed to live the life of luxury. Long live the British taxpayer. :rolleyes

History is what it is - several hundred years of compounding interest, etc. on top of a privileged start. I believe they did study the economics and concluded the monarchy does earn more for the UK than it costs.

 

[GaryTaylor]

How many Vets did the government kill with abuse and neglect and intentional cover-up. How many are they drugging to death with hospice concoctions of narcotics and benzos?

Hows that play into the Rights and to bear arms? Electronic secret death lists for those defending Americas rights? The list kept growing and the need was meet. Simply wasn’t enough Doctors so the clerk took over. Wow I know the abortion agenda was straight out of the lake of fire, this must have manifested with it. How many died, and with one screaming don’t let this happen to another Vet.

The leadership turned a blind eye on those defending Americas Rights and who indeed took an oath to defend them. And the Government is talking as usual, blah, blah, blah.

Bad time for the gun conversation, that gets a blah, blah, blah from a good deal of us and as you see for many very good reasons and which have been elaborated on at length. Outright atrocity. Perhaps they will start with a public apology and actually do something about it. Nothing on the news lately about guns here, uninteresting topic on the priority list.

 

[LongingSoul]

A great example of a situation that really did warrant a revolution was an attempt to disarm American colonists.

The American War of Independence began on April 19, 1775, when 700 Redcoats under the command of Major John Pitcairn left Boston to seize American arms at Lexington and Concord. Pitcarin was repelled by militia and individuals who literally chased him back to Boston. Only British reinforcements dispatched from Boston saved the British expedition from annihilation—and the fact that the Americans started running out of ammunition and gun powder.

So, “the shot that was heard around the world” was fired because a tyrant wanted to disarm America. A great reason for a rebellion.

But give me a contemporary example of what opposing forces might be part of this revellion. The government is totally American. In fact I believe you must be American born to even be President? What in todays environment, could warrant a government against ‘the people’ type rebellion?

I remember Sister Mary Francis telling us in grammar school that the British Commonwealth was a group of countries who have Queen Elizabeth II as their reigning constitutional monarch. These countries were Canada, Australia, New Zeland, a few others and, of course, Great Britain. She told us that Australia was officially known as The Monarchy of Australia and the Queen’s title was "Elizabeth the Second, by the Grace of God, Queen of Australia and Her other Realms and Territories, Head of the Commonwealth. Is there any thing more i should know?

Betty Smith asked Sister if we had to curtsey to the Queen. Sister, told us all that Americans respect leaders of other countries but do not bow or curtsey to kings or queens. I was shocked and impressed. Coming from an Eastern European country I was taught that if you didn’t bow to the monarch you could have your head cut off. Wow! I LOVE being an American.

Commonwealth countries are not controlled by Britian. That’s basic. The Queen herself is somewhat surprised at the sentiment for the monarchy that Australians have. But we still value our Commonwealth status and don’t have any irrational centuries old bitterness. Life is too short. Let it go. Enjoy the relationships of the day for what they are.

Yes, American troops march in the ANZAC parades and then party with the ANZACs who buy the Fosters and thank our guys for saving your butts during WWII.

The U.S. Military is made up of American citizens and our military is under civilian control…so we are back to “the people” again.

If the military is under control of ‘the people’ why are you afraid of the government? How dangerous can a group of members of ‘the government’ be when ‘the people’ have recourse to the whole might and weaponry of the military to quash ‘the government’ tyranny?

 

[GaryTaylor]

If the military is under control of ‘the people’ why are you afraid of the government? How dangerous can a group of members of ‘the government’ be when ‘the people’ have recourse to the whole might and weaponry of the military to quash ‘the government’ tyranny?

Grave distortion or reality. The people have no control of the military, and the military has no control over a very small number of politicians. By large civilians don’t even have clue what the US military is doing in Iraq, at the border, with the VA, IRS, etc. Afraid is really "non sequitur"aside from the anti guns advocates caught in the moments news. I would venture to say most who do believe in the right to bear arms have believed it a very long time, thus their fear wouldn’t be a point. Now admittedly that same fear is rampant with the anti-gun crew. Its really unbecoming as they propose peace, rather inconsistent with the fervor.

 

[LongingSoul]

Grave distortion or reality. The people have no control of the military, and the military has no control over a very small number of politicians. By large civilians don’t even have clue what the US military is doing in Iraq, at the border, with the VA, IRS, etc. Afraid is really "non sequitur"aside from the anti guns advocates caught in the moments news. I would venture to say most who do believe in the right to bear arms have believed it a very long time, thus their fear wouldn’t be a point. Now admittedly that same fear is rampant with the anti-gun crew. Its really unbecoming as they propose peace, rather inconsistent with the fervor.

I was just responding to Zoltans explanations of why privately owned defense guns are justified under the constitution. ‘Fear’ is a major sentiment here. Many nations with even more reason based on Zoltans criterior, actively choose to resist this type of cold war as a tactic. Fear and irrational bitterness held over from a couple of centuries ago are the driving force in the gun mentality.

 

[GaryTaylor]

‘Fear’ is a major sentiment here.

Fear is contingent on the daily news.

Truth is people have been sleeping here for some time and realized now its no longer really about we the people, but a small agenda driven group. Same issue has been escalating for some time.

Listen if the government is feeding you, housing you and paying for your medical you’d likely follow their thinking as we see. Really no secret why the country is divided. And how is the government relating to its followers? Well, you can just google Hillary Clinton and see how out of touch they are. I mean whats going on in the White House.

 

[nmgauss]

Grave distortion or reality. The people have no control of the military, and the military has no control over a very small number of politicians. By large civilians don’t even have clue what the US military is doing in Iraq, at the border, with the VA, IRS, etc. Afraid is really "non sequitur"aside from the anti guns advocates caught in the moments news. I would venture to say most who do believe in the right to bear arms have believed it a very long time, thus their fear wouldn’t be a point. Now admittedly that same fear is rampant with the anti-gun crew. Its really unbecoming as they propose peace, rather inconsistent with the fervor.

In the U.S. the President is commander-in-chief of the military. There is a civilian cabinet position called Secretary of Defense. I don’t understand why you say that the people have no control of the military?

If civilians don’t have a clue what the US Military is doing in Irag, they don’t keep up with what the media is telling us.

 

[GaryTaylor]

In the U.S. the President is commander-in-chief of the military. There is a civilian cabinet position called Secretary of Defense. I don’t understand why you say that the people have no control of the military?

If civilians don’t have a clue what the US Military is doing in Irag, they don’t keep up with what the media is telling us.

Are you serious with this? The media? Thats a joke right?

 

[manualman]

The poll is insufficiently descriptive. I am “pro-gun” in that I believe that everybody but felons and the mentally ill should be allowed to own a rifle or shotgun (18" or longer barrel length). I’m less convinced that handguns should exist at all outside of police and military. But even on that the cat’s probably well out of the bag by now and a ban would simply ensure that criminals remained armed and everybody else on the street was helpless.

So if the poll were ONLY about handguns and the darn things were invented yesterday, I’d favor a ban for all but police and military. But in the real world, the law would be a disaster.

 

[GaryTaylor]

The media…

google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=1&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0CB8QqQIwAA&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.foxnews.com%2Fpolitics%2F2014%2F06%2F25%2Fboehner-plans-to-file-suit-against-obama-over-alleged-abuse-executive-power%2F&ei=-lGrU7zPIceBqgbxw4D4DA&usg=AFQjCNHIZ0APxx35WWSlgf5GC7jCDZKIAA&bvm=bv.69620078,d.b2k

Abuse of Power? Is that what he is saying? I can’t imagine why, must be media nonsense to the Democrats.

“This is not about impeachment – it’s about him faithfully executing the laws of this country,” Boehner said.

 

[Zoltan_Cobalt]

But give me a contemporary example of what opposing forces might be part of this revellion. The government is totally American. In fact I believe you must be American born to even be President? What in todays environment, could warrant a government against ‘the people’ type rebellion?

Rather than providing a list of “what if’s”…lets go back to 1946 for a more contemporary “Revolution” known as the Battle of Athens. Athens Tennessee, that is.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Athens_%281946%29

A prime example of the value of the Second Amendment in combating tyranny.

Commonwealth countries are not controlled by Britian. That’s basic. The Queen herself is somewhat surprised at the sentiment for the monarchy that Australians have. But we still value our Commonwealth status and don’t have any irrational centuries old bitterness. Life is too short. Let it go. Enjoy the relationships of the day for what they are.

I AM enjoying the day and all my American freedoms.

If the military is under control of ‘the people’ why are you afraid of the government? How dangerous can a group of members of ‘the government’ be when ‘the people’ have recourse to the whole might and weaponry of the military to quash ‘the government’ tyranny?

The Founders gave the President (an elected official) the title of Commander-in-Chief of the Military to preserve civilian supremacy over the military. They did not want a potential military coup. The highest ranking military officers answer to the Secretary of Defense, an appointed civilian with the authority to relieve them of duty.
The people are not afraid of our military. We control it at the ballot box.

There exists the slim chance that political leaders could, Heaven forbid, turn tyrannical and use the military against the people. This is when the people need a fighting chance.
FYI: IF a nationwide rebellion against a tyrannical government were to take place today in the U.S. it is estimated that 60 to 70% of the U.S. military would join with their families, friends and neighbors against the government…bringing their equipment, arms and ammunition. We don’t fear our military.

 

[GaryTaylor]

Did you all see the news on the one “caught”?

google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=1&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0CB8QqQIwAA&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.nydailynews.com%2Fnews%2Fcrime%2Fteen-plotted-mass-shooting-minnesota-high-school-couldn-resist-urge-kill-article-1.1843095&ei=yVerU4rYL8qTqgbYrYGAAw&usg=AFQjCNFXybj5T–GSXTMDNiWUQhaa4Ww4g&bvm=bv.69620078,d.b2k

He said he’s mentally ill and lied well. He wanted to kill his parents and as many as possible.

“The teen said he had ‘good parents,’ but was going to kill them to help bring his body count higher.”

“I didn’t have plans of living past that day,” said LaDue, adding that he was going to storm the school with explosives before he started shooting his victims.

“I didn’t want to prove that I was a wuss like all the other recent shooters, like Adam Lanza who shot himself,” the teen said.

“I wanted to be taken down by the SWAT just to show that I wasn’t a wimp and not like willing to fight with equal force.”

 

[LongingSoul]

So if the poll were ONLY about handguns and the darn things were invented yesterday, I’d favor a ban for all but police and military. But in the real world, the law would be a disaster.

Any real change has to begin within the mentality of the community. It would be a disaster to suddenly ban all handguns but legal recourse doesn’t always operate in that way. Look at the process of stamping out racial discrimination. Once it entered into law, it took a long and gradual path to where we are today. Yes it still exists in some people, but overall, western society takes a dim view of all manifestations of racial discrimination and an affected person has legal recourse where it does happen.

The USCCB has issued numerous statements regarding more strict regulation of handguns with the view to their eventual elimination from civilian hands. The wisdom of this is something that at least all Catholics can have faith in if it is entered into law, even if they aren’t ready to abandon their weapons voluntarily as yet.

 

[GaryTaylor]

to their eventual elimination from civilian hands.

You have a link stating this, I read most of their thinking since Sandy Hook, this is foreign to me. Five points would be…

1.Support measures that control the sale and use of firearms

2.Support measures that make guns safer (especially efforts that prevent their unsupervised use by children and anyone other than the owner)

3.Call for sensible regulations of handguns

4.Support legislative efforts that seek to protect society from the violence associated with easy access to deadly weapons including assault weapons

5.Make a serious commitment to confront the pervasive role of addiction and mental illness in crime.

google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=1&cad=rja&uact=8&sqi=2&ved=0CB0QFjAA&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.usccb.org%2Fnews%2F2012%2F12-219.cfm&ei=C2SrU7KdMsmNqAb_oYGADw&usg=AFQjCNHnj3sQHZKuIWM9ulPNcyu8KvnTDQ

“Need to improve resources to help the mentally-ill, their families, caregivers,” really the theme of the article. I’m sure you’ll agree.