Are you Pro-Life or Pro-Choice

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I am pro-life.

The name of the opposite faction is therefore pro-death.

Anyone who would kill unborn babies would eat doodoo.

With toasted coconut on it.
 
I answered that i’m prolife abortion only. I didn’t see an option for euthanasia presented, and i’m gravely against euthanasia.

I’d like to clarify my response in not being outright opposed to the death penalty:
violence in prisons is often rampant. Many times this leads to conflicts which result in the loss of life of inmates. Further, for some gang leaders, they can direct crimes including murder even from prison.

I believe that these people should spend the rest of their natural life in total isolation from any and all people except for the person passing food to them on a tray 3 times a day. They may not live very long under those conditions, but that will be determined by God…not by an executioner’s switch.

I don’t support the death penalty for those who will most likely serve out their terms and never commit another crime or who may live out life sentences in prison without continuing in their violence. However, for those who are likely to never repent of violent acts and who pose a legitimate danger to guards and other inmates, as an act of defense against violence, said people could be put to death. In my mind I see that the same as if someone were to draw a firearm on me: i have a right to defend life, even if that means taking the life of the instigator of violence.
What really makes me angry is that there are all of this body and muscular strength building equipment in prisons. So the whole time these people are in jail, they are getting bigger and stronger, so that when they get out, they will be able to do more intimidation and damage. This definitely seems totally wrong!!!
 
That sounds like vengeance and not justice!
No, just the opposite. It is saying that he removes his feelings of rage from his decisions. And that is how he is able to follow what Jesus says about our enemies.
 
As I said, supporting or rejecting the death penalty is a matter of prudential judgment (though it is not murder), it is not a moral issue. Faithful Catholics are free to disagree.

Abortion is NOT a matter of prudential judgment and is a grave and intrinsic evil. Faithful Catholic must reject abortion.

Thus, there is no connection between being “pro-life” and a person’s stance on the death penalty.
You are correct. Abortion is intrinsically evil. The death penalty is not. If I implied differently, I was wrong.
But please remember that the death penalty is only acceptable under severe and rare circumstances according to the CCC.
 
Interesting survey.

After reading the posts, I have begun thinking about ALL the things that could be considered “pro-life” by these standards:

abortion
euthanasia
war
capital punishment
starvation
poverty
no access to clean drinking water
etc.

I think when using the phrase “pro-life” I’d like to see it limited to abortion and euthanasia only. It’s not that I’m for starvation or war or even the death penalty. But as others here have said, these are issues of justice, human dignity, corporal works of mercy, and so on.

Personally, I have spent many years reflecting on what it means to me to be pro-life. I do see my opposition to most capital punishment (though not all) as well as my support of foreign missions as stemming from my own, personal pro-life stance.

But for **public **purposes, pro-life is anti-abortion and anti-euthanasia only.

Just my tuppence.

Gertie
 
Interesting survey.

After reading the posts, I have begun thinking about ALL the things that could be considered “pro-life” by these standards:

abortion
euthanasia
war
capital punishment
starvation
poverty
no access to clean drinking water
etc.

I think when using the phrase “pro-life” I’d like to see it limited to abortion and euthanasia only. It’s not that I’m for starvation or war or even the death penalty. But as others here have said, these are issues of justice, human dignity, corporal works of mercy, and so on.

Personally, I have spent many years reflecting on what it means to me to be pro-life. I do see my opposition to most capital punishment (though not all) as well as my support of foreign missions as stemming from my own, personal pro-life stance.

But for **public **purposes, pro-life is anti-abortion and anti-euthanasia only.

Just my tuppence.

Gertie
Eloquently stated. Thank you. 🙂
 
I voted for both, yet I weigh in that abortion issue is to be the issue which needs to be the # 1 concern.

I stand with the teaching of the Church concerning the death penalty. But I still considered it a pro-life issue.
CCC 2267 Assuming that the guilty party’s identity and responsibility have been fully determined, the traditional teaching of the Church does not exclude recourse to the death penalty, if this is the only possible way of effectively defending human lives against the unjust aggressor.
If, however, non-lethal means are sufficient to defend and protect people’s safety from the aggressor, authority will limit itself to such means, as these are more in keeping with the concrete conditions of the common good and more in conformity to the dignity of the human person.
Today, in fact, as a consequence of the possibilities which the state has for effectively preventing crime, by rendering one who has committed an offense incapable of doing harm - without definitely taking away from him the possibility of redeeming himself - the cases in which the execution of the offender is an absolute necessity “are very rare, if not practically nonexistent.”
And I also agree all of these issues are life issues
abortion
euthanasia
war
capital punishment
starvation
poverty
clean drinking water

But add protecting the family and family values by opposing any anti-family legislation such as “Gay” Marriage and “Gay” adoption for these so called “gay” right issues are part of the culture of death which is the opposite of the culture of life.

When voting though I can not see any justification voting for any candidate which is pro-abortion or pro-euthanasia or promotes research using stem cells from embryos. Issue of war (just war vs un-just war) and the issue of capitol punishment are issues open for debate, and secondary to abortion, euthansia, embryonic stem-cell research.

I don’t think any politician would promote unsafe drinking water, poverty or starvation, it would be open to debate how to secure the needs of the public in the best way possible and views on how to do this can vary greatly without either side being immoral, unless their solutions would be to restrict populations through the use of abortion, birth control, euthansia or even execution of underdesirable populations. And that is why abortion and
euthanasia are the two most important issues of life.
 
Interesting survey.

After reading the posts, I have begun thinking about ALL the things that could be considered “pro-life” by these standards:

abortion
euthanasia
war
capital punishment
starvation
poverty
no access to clean drinking water
etc.

I think when using the phrase “pro-life” I’d like to see it limited to abortion and euthanasia only. It’s not that I’m for starvation or war or even the death penalty. But as others here have said, these are issues of justice, human dignity, corporal works of mercy, and so on.

Personally, I have spent many years reflecting on what it means to me to be pro-life. I do see my opposition to most capital punishment (though not all) as well as my support of foreign missions as stemming from my own, personal pro-life stance.

But for **public **purposes, pro-life is anti-abortion and anti-euthanasia only.

Just my tuppence.

Gertie
You make a very good point, and I am in total agreement with you. It is too important to stick too much into it. It takes away the importance of abortion and euthanasia.
 
Interesting survey.

After reading the posts, I have begun thinking about ALL the things that could be considered “pro-life” by these standards:

abortion
euthanasia
war
capital punishment
starvation
poverty
no access to clean drinking water
etc.

I think when using the phrase “pro-life” I’d like to see it limited to abortion and euthanasia only. It’s not that I’m for starvation or war or even the death penalty. But as others here have said, these are issues of justice, human dignity, corporal works of mercy, and so on.

Personally, I have spent many years reflecting on what it means to me to be pro-life. I do see my opposition to most capital punishment (though not all) as well as my support of foreign missions as stemming from my own, personal pro-life stance.

But for **public **purposes, pro-life is anti-abortion and anti-euthanasia only.

Just my tuppence.

Gertie
I consider such a position very, very cafeteria. Very selective, unlike Cardinal Bernadin’s position. War by definition is deadly and aims for at least some deaths if not thousands and millions of deaths, including deaths of innocent babies and children below the age of reason. Capital punishment is death. Starvation leads to death – especially so for the most innocent, since they need to be fed most often & are, like the elderly, the most fragile. Poverty often shortens one’s life span, or encourages desperate actions (such as crime), which target one for death by violence due to high-risk activity and/or apprehension and incarceration. Dirty drinking water carries fatal disease, making especially vulnerable innocent (young) inhabitants of the poorest nations with less access to preventative & curative medicine.

There are some convenient rationalizations on this thread, which I do not see supportable in Jesus’ words or actions.

True supporters of life weave and wear a seamless garment, or they have redefined “life” in some private, non-theological dictionary.
 
In the words of Fr. Corapi. “You can’t be Catholic and pro-choice. Get it right and once in for all”
 
Interesting survey.

After reading the posts, I have begun thinking about ALL the things that could be considered “pro-life” by these standards:

abortion
euthanasia
war
capital punishment
starvation
poverty
no access to clean drinking water
etc.

I think when using the phrase “pro-life” I’d like to see it limited to abortion and euthanasia only. It’s not that I’m for starvation or war or even the death penalty. But as others here have said, these are issues of justice, human dignity, corporal works of mercy, and so on.

Personally, I have spent many years reflecting on what it means to me to be pro-life. I do see my opposition to most capital punishment (though not all) as well as my support of foreign missions as stemming from my own, personal pro-life stance.

But for **public **purposes, pro-life is anti-abortion and anti-euthanasia only.

Just my tuppence.

Gertie
You forgot embryonic stem cell research and human cloning. I don’t think you can support these and be pro-life. Other than that, good post. 🙂

EDIT: I didn’t vote because the death penalty has nothing to do with being pro-life, as many have already said.
 
Im Anti abortion and moderately pro death penalty. I wish people would quit lumping in capital punishment with the right to life issue. My belief has always been that one does not have a right to what they take from others wrongly.
 
I consider such a position very, very cafeteria. Very selective, unlike Cardinal Bernadin’s position. War by definition is deadly and aims for at least some deaths if not thousands and millions of deaths, including deaths of innocent babies and children below the age of reason. Capital punishment is death. Starvation leads to death – especially so for the most innocent, since they need to be fed most often & are, like the elderly, the most fragile. Poverty often shortens one’s life span, or encourages desperate actions (such as crime), which target one for death by violence due to high-risk activity and/or apprehension and incarceration. Dirty drinking water carries fatal disease, making especially vulnerable innocent (young) inhabitants of the poorest nations with less access to preventative & curative medicine.

There are some convenient rationalizations on this thread, which I do not see supportable in Jesus’ words or actions.

True supporters of life weave and wear a seamless garment, or they have redefined “life” in some private, non-theological dictionary.
:eek: :eek: Cafeteria??? :eek: :eek:
Them there’s fightin’ words in my circle of friends.

“Cafeteria” and “Catholic” should not be mentioned in the same sentence unless one is talking about school lunches at the local parish.

My stand is anything but “cafeteria.” I am prolife: from being anti-abortion to anti-war, from being anti-death penality, to being pro works of mercy (both physically and financially supporting such).

My point, and feel free to disagree, is that when speaking publicly of the “pro-life” movement, the issues should be limited to abortion and euthanasia. I did not make this up, or selectively choose which issues to put under this public umbrella. You show me where in the CCC it says that being “pro-life” means being all the things (or even more) listed in my original post, and I will thank you for showing me the error of my ways.

It is the Catechism that directs my opinions, not my own thoughts and ideas. And it is through prayer and reflection that my personal pro-life commitment includes all the things I mentioned, and more (such as acting with charity towards all I meet).

Gertie
 
My stand is anything but “cafeteria.”
I’m glad that you’ve expanded your answer. Your earlier reply implied something far less complete. i.m.o. Many people, just as devoted to life issues (or perhaps more so?) as one- or two-issue supporters,believe that life is for God’s to take away, not the state to take away. They also know, based on unalterable realities, that the practicality of physical life, and the dignities of daily life, depend on the upholding of human dignity for those already born – those not confined to the womb or those near the grave. For people who limit their passion to the abortion issue, it may be very inconvenient to acknowledge how thorough our commitment to life must be, in the teaching of Jesus, but neither Jesus nor true proponents of Life would limit such support to the extreme chronological ends of the spectrum.

I take you at your word in your subsequent reply. I am just wary of general tendencies I’ve seen on and off CAF to elevate the unborn as more sacred, more worthy of God’s love, etc., than anyone else. (Yes, I understand the “innocence” principle.) The born are just as must children of God as the unborn. Those who abandon the born in preference to the unborn (not accusing you of that) are those whose support for “life” I find hypocritical and not credible.

And it is through prayer and reflection, and study of both scripture and catechism, that some of us eventually came to the perspective of Cardinal Bernardin.

You personally may not be cafeteria in your commitments, but many, many so-called “pro-life” people are.

the-american-catholic.com/2008/12/26/can-the-seamless-garment-be-rediscovered/

books.google.com/books?id=-uPNgmOKCX4C&pg=PA47&lpg=PA47&dq=Cardinal+Bernardin+seamless+commitment+to+life&source=bl&ots=aN2Gglw0Du&sig=DyLbzSro8eMCG80b-tY9PUDooQA&hl=en&ei=MEOrSaHCE4KUsQPt843lDw&sa=X&oi=book_result&resnum=6&ct=result#PPP1,M1
 
I am prolife across the board. We don’t have the right to take any life, because Vengeance is mine says the Lord.
 
I consider such a position very, very cafeteria. Very selective, unlike Cardinal Bernadin’s position. War by definition is deadly and aims for at least some deaths if not thousands and millions of deaths, including deaths of innocent babies and children below the age of reason. Capital punishment is death. Starvation leads to death – especially so for the most innocent, since they need to be fed most often & are, like the elderly, the most fragile. Poverty often shortens one’s life span, or encourages desperate actions (such as crime), which target one for death by violence due to high-risk activity and/or apprehension and incarceration. Dirty drinking water carries fatal disease, making especially vulnerable innocent (young) inhabitants of the poorest nations with less access to preventative & curative medicine.

There are some convenient rationalizations on this thread, which I do not see supportable in Jesus’ words or actions.

True supporters of life weave and wear a seamless garment, or they have redefined “life” in some private, non-theological dictionary.
You make a very grave error when you call my friend a “cafeteria” Catholic. She is quite faithful to the Church.

There was absolutely nothing in what she wrote that is not part of core Catholic teaching. Do not let your radical attitudes, many of which seem to be borrowed from political leftists, cloud authentic Catholic teaching.

Furthermore, you also mistake for a moral absolute what is, in truth, part of prudential judgment.

Your second post did nothing to address the grave insult you made. Nor did it accurately state Church teaching. You have made a very serious insult and you should apologize to Gertablle forthwith
 
I’m glad that you’ve expanded your answer. Your earlier reply implied something far less complete. i.m.o. Many people, just as devoted to life issues (or perhaps more so?) as one- or two-issue supporters,believe that life is for God’s to take away, not the state to take away. They also know, based on unalterable realities, that the practicality of physical life, and the dignities of daily life, depend on the upholding of human dignity for those already born – those not confined to the womb or those near the grave. For people who limit their passion to the abortion issue, it may be very inconvenient to acknowledge how thorough our commitment to life must be, in the teaching of Jesus, but neither Jesus nor true proponents of Life would limit such support to the extreme chronological ends of the spectrum.

I take you at your word in your subsequent reply. I am just wary of general tendencies I’ve seen on and off CAF to elevate the unborn as more sacred, more worthy of God’s love, etc., than anyone else. (Yes, I understand the “innocence” principle.) The born are just as must children of God as the unborn. Those who abandon the born in preference to the unborn (not accusing you of that) are those whose support for “life” I find hypocritical and not credible.

And it is through prayer and reflection, and study of both scripture and catechism, that some of us eventually came to the perspective of Cardinal Bernardin.

You personally may not be cafeteria in your commitments, but many, many so-called “pro-life” people are.

the-american-catholic.com/2008/12/26/can-the-seamless-garment-be-rediscovered/

books.google.com/books?id=-uPNgmOKCX4C&pg=PA47&lpg=PA47&dq=Cardinal+Bernardin+seamless+commitment+to+life&source=bl&ots=aN2Gglw0Du&sig=DyLbzSro8eMCG80b-tY9PUDooQA&hl=en&ei=MEOrSaHCE4KUsQPt843lDw&sa=X&oi=book_result&resnum=6&ct=result#PPP1,M1
This “seamless garment” idea is not part of Church teaching. Despite many claims, it does not represent the unchanging teachings of the Catholic Church but rather a modernist approach to theology and is an attempt to change certain moral teaching that are part of the deposit of faith.

One cannot equate abortion, which is intrinsically evil, with capital punishment, which is permitted.

The purpose of this approach is to get Catholics to vote for pro-abortion candidates. The “Seamless Garment” idea is, therefore, a form of cooperating in evil and an attempt to confuse faithful Catholics.
 
You make a very grave error when you call my friend a “cafeteria” Catholic. She is quite faithful to the Church.

There was absolutely nothing in what she wrote that is not part of core Catholic teaching. Do not let your radical attitudes, many of which seem to be borrowed from political leftists, cloud authentic Catholic teaching.

Furthermore, you also mistake for a moral absolute what is, in truth, part of prudential judgment.

Your second post did nothing to address the grave insult you made. Nor did it accurately state Church teaching. You have made a very serious insult and you should apologize to Gertablle forthwith
You have both misrepresented me and misinterpreted me, not to mention insulted me gravely. It is actually you who owe me an apology, not I who owe anyone on this thread an apology. In no way were my posts radical, leftist, or anything else you claim. Cardinal Bernardin is one of the holiest men of the modern era: beyond reproach. Like JP2 who met with his would-be assassin, the Cardinal met personally, with utmost mercy & compassion, with his accuser, who falsified the account of sexual abuse for the sake of material profit. Cardinal Bernardin is hardly a raving radical, but someone who heard the Word profoundly and adopted it obediently. He is a model for those who would follow the words of Jesus in the gospel of Matthew. At no time in his career has Cardinal Bernardin represented “inauthentic” Catholic teaching.

Supporting life through all its phases, from conception through death, is hardly radical or leftist or non-orthodox. It in fact defines authentic Catholic teaching. Your post is filled not only with inaccuracy, but with vitriol. You distort both Catholic teaching and gospel values in your radical distortion of my statements and of the support for all of creation. But this is what so frequently happens with single-issue (or limited-issue) advocates on the right and on the left. Both extremes behave as if the most important thing is to destroy those who don’t support “single-issue” politics to the exclusive extent that they do.

No, I do not support life hierarchies. I support, promote all of life, as I am commanded to do both by biblical and by magisterial exhortation.
 
No, I do not support life hierarchies. I support, promote all of life, as I am commanded to do both by biblical and by magisterial exhortation.
You are making the serious mistake of putting war and poverty on the same level as abortion. Can you honestly say that clean drinking water is just as important an issue as abortion? You are confusing life issues with works of mercy. This sort of thinking is commonly used by Democrats to downplay life issues and is the very reason abortion is still legal.
 
You are making the serious mistake of putting war and poverty on the same level as abortion. Can you honestly say that clean drinking water is just as important an issue as abortion? You are confusing life issues with works of mercy. This sort of thinking is commonly used by Democrats to downplay life issues and is the very reason abortion is still legal.
You, also, do not need to lump me into your favorite opposition with a phrase “this sort of thinking.” I am saying that the issue of innocence, and the issues of life and death, extend beyond the womb. I am saying that those who selectively prefer only certain life issues to others are not ones whose moral values and religious observance I can respect nearly as much as I respect those whose respect for life is authentically thorough. (Knowing, as I said, that an impoverished 5-year-old child is as captive and as innocent, if presented with bacteria-laden drinking water, as an embryo.)

There are two different issues here: Some people choose to focus on only one or two issues that they feel passionate about. Nothing wrong with that. Most of us don’t have time to save the whole world. That is a very different behavior than asserting that only one or two issues are truly life issues, whereas other life issues are “raidcal,” “leftist,” “inauthentic,” phony, or whatever other insult is hurled. To say that only abortion & euthanasia really matter is very different from saying that one chooses to focus on beginning of life and end of life issues, due to limitation of time, energy, & chosen passion. The poster I had in mind earlier took the time to clarify & expand her position, which I thanked & praised her for, since her earlier post implied something quite different.
 
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