Aren't "born again" experiences kind of unfair?

[EphelDuath]

Not necessarily in the evangelical sense, but any sort of religious awakening where one suddenly finds Jesus.

If God is pushing you towards accepting him, isn’t that unfair to the people who are never given a shove in the right direction?

 

[BennyBoy89]

I guess we can’t really question why God allows some to experience things that others may never experience.

As for me, when I prayed the “sinner’s prayer,” I didn’t have a “born-again” experience. It wasn’t until my baptism at age 12 that I did, and last month at my first confession.

 

[BlaineTog]

Not necessarily in the evangelical sense, but any sort of religious awakening where one suddenly finds Jesus.

If God is pushing you towards accepting him, isn’t that unfair to the people who are never given a shove in the right direction?

I direct your attention to Doubting Thomas, as well as the parable of the workers (some worked a full day and the others a full day and all got a full day’s pay). No one is entitled to a religious awakening, and those who find God without one are called “blessed.”

 

[EphelDuath]

Well, why is it fair for some people to be blessed and others not?

 

[baltobetsy]

Because God knows you better than you know yourself, and loves you more than you love yourself, and wants you in heaven more than you want that for yourself. He also knows EXACTLY how to handle you (and everyone else, BTW) and what gifts and experiences to allow you AND to deny you in order to have you with Him in heaven. Each person will react differently, and God knows all about everyone and his needs.

Trust God and seek His will, and you can’t go wrong. We humans are frequently incorrect about what’s good for us. God has not been incorrect yet, and is not expected to be so!

Betsy

 

[BlaineTog]

Well, why is it fair for some people to be blessed and others not?

A) No one is entitled to be blessed. Those that are, are so because of mercy, not justice. Justice is getting at least what you deserve, whereas mercy is getting more than you deserve.

B) Because of how individuals are. Every human being is a work of art, a work in progress, a tiny god in the process of being formed. For some, they need spiritual experiences to get them to their personal challenge. For others, getting to that spirituality is the challenge itself. Each of us has a hurdle to jump, and each hurdle is different.

 

[Andruschak]

Not necessarily in the evangelical sense, but any sort of religious awakening where one suddenly finds Jesus.

If God is pushing you towards accepting him, isn’t that unfair to the people who are never given a shove in the right direction?

I’ve no idea. Now, when evangilicals bring up the subject to me, I just flip them off with, "I was born OK the first time.

Again, it could be argued that our baptisms are a “born again” experience

And when I was confirmed last year, could that also be a “born again” experience?:yup:

At that, it could be that the shove to get me going in the right direction was done by Our Lady Of Mount Carmel on her feast day in 2006, which encouraged me to put on the green and brown scapulars.

But even if she gave me the shove, I still had to keep going, under my own power, in the direction she pointed out.


I believe this is all summed up in the word “GRACE”.

 

[Godlovestrength]

Well, why is it fair for some people to be blessed and others not?

Well you know I once asked Jesus to give me some person to guide me to Him the way He wished. I was given St Therese the little flower, I was a married person and I wanted to live the way Therese did i tried to love Jesus the way she did, get the message ( no?) Well it’s like this Therese is Therese and Wayne is Wayne. I don’t have her mind, havent the ability, to think the way she did, the way some of these people who you say are blessed do.
The more I tried to do what others did the less Jesus was able to bless ME for being just Wayne.
Another…
My aunty said that she wished she were blessed the same way I have been. Well what a borring place the world would be with two Therese or Wayne you know less and less people would follow God’s example and the world would think less of God because it would become common place for two of Therese or Jesus.

We are all blessed but the point is that and here is a point for you Therese said far too many people want to be the big gun or to do the big things for God and you know what they only come once a lifetime. it is the every day little things that please Jesus.
Can you do the little things only Jesus wants you and I to do?

God bless

 

[kettle]

If God is pushing you towards accepting him, isn’t that unfair to the people who are never given a shove in the right direction?

I believe God shoves everyone, especially those who have fallen away from Him. I also believe that people don’t always notice because they’re not paying attention.

How is it unfair if people choose to ignore God?

 

[Belle10]

Not necessarily in the evangelical sense, but any sort of religious awakening where one suddenly finds Jesus.

If God is pushing you towards accepting him, isn’t that unfair to the people who are never given a shove in the right direction?

It seems to me that it isn’t so much being “shoved” in the right direction, rather drawn by the Holy Spirit. God doesn’t push us – He gives us the ability to decide.

Just because someone doesn’t feel an awakening doesn’t mean they can’t have one. I have experienced such awesomeness of the Holy Spirit several times in my life, but that doesn’t mean that someone who has not isn’t as close to God. He blesses us in different ways – just as you wouldn’t give two different people with different interests the same birthday gift, God doesn’t give all of us the same gifts either.

Romans 12:4-8 tells us:

4Just as each of us has one body with many members, and these members do not all have the same function, 5so in Christ we who are many form one body, and each member belongs to all the others. 6We have different gifts, according to the grace given us. If a man’s gift is prophesying, let him use it in proportion to hisfaith. 7If it is serving, let him serve; if it is teaching, let him teach; 8if it is encouraging, let him encourage; if it is contributing to the needs of others, let him give generously; if it is leadership, let him govern diligently; if it is showing mercy, let him do it cheerfully.

I for one feel “reborn” each time I leave the confessional. Sometimes there is such a feeling of physical calm that washes over me, sometimes there isn’t anything like that. Either way, I know God has given me a great gift and I am “reborn” with a fresh start to do His will.

 

[chewchoo]

we have God’s plan on one hand and our free will on the other. i believe God’s plan is for every one to be “born again”, but not everyone responds to God’s calling. if some one doesn’t respond to the call, then i wouldn’t say they are being treated unfairly. they made their choice.

 

[FCEGM]

Not necessarily in the evangelical sense, but any sort of religious awakening where one suddenly finds Jesus.

If God is pushing you towards accepting him, isn’t that unfair to the people who are never given a shove in the right direction?

Just to add a bit to what others have already said, only God knows who will respond to His “shoving”.

 

[puzzleannie]

Not necessarily in the evangelical sense, but any sort of religious awakening where one suddenly finds Jesus.

If God is pushing you towards accepting him, isn’t that unfair to the people who are never given a shove in the right direction?

God invites everyone, he implants the desire for union with him in every human soul. Individuals are free to respond or reject his overtures.

 

[EphelDuath]

A) No one is entitled to be blessed. Those that are, are so because of mercy, not justice. Justice is getting at least what you deserve, whereas mercy is getting more than you deserve.

Is it just that God is more merciful to some than others? The people who suddenly found Jesus one day: why doesn’t God offer the same revelation to everyone?

 

[EphelDuath]

Just to add a bit to what others have already said, only God knows who will respond to His “shoving”.

Then is God being unfair by predisposing some people at birth to be more likely to accept Christianity?

Just for emphasis: my questions are for my own curiosity, they are not aggressive at all.

 

[BlaineTog]

Is it just that God is more merciful to some than others? The people who suddenly found Jesus one day: why doesn’t God offer the same revelation to everyone?

Because people are not the same. We don’t all have the same story to tell.

 

[BarbaraTherese]

This rather reminds me of the Workers in the Vineyard parable, where those who came early complain because those who came late received the same wages. The reply of Jesus is more or less…if the vineyard owner chooses to give both the same wage - what is it to you?
The gifts and Graces are dispersed as God may will and are not gifted to individuals, rather through them to the whole Church. Who are we to question God and what He does with His Gifts and Graces?
drbo.org/cgi-bin/d?b=drb&bk=47&ch=20&l=1&f=s#x

Gospel According to Saint Matthew
| Chapter 20 |

1 The kingdom of heaven is like to an householder, who went out early in the morning to hire labourers into his vineyard. 2 And having agreed with the labourers for a penny a day, he sent them into his vineyard. 3 And going about the third hour, he saw others standing in the market place idle. 4 And he said to them: Go you also into my vineyard, and I will give you what shall be just. 5 And they went their way. And again he went out about the sixth and the ninth hour, and did in like manner. 6 But about the eleventh hour he went out and found others standing, and he saith to them: Why stand you here all the day idle? 7 They say to him: Because no man hath hired us. He saith to them: Go you also into my vineyard. 8 And when evening was come, the lord of the vineyard saith to his steward: Call the labourers and pay them their hire, beginning from the last even to the first. 9 When therefore they were come, that came about the eleventh hour, they received every man a penny. 10 But when the first also came, they thought that they should receive more: and they also received every man a penny. 11 And receiving it they murmured against the master of the house, 12 Saying: These last have worked but one hour, and thou hast made them equal to us, that have borne the burden of the day and the heats. 13 But he answering said to one of them: Friend, I do thee no wrong: didst thou not agree with me for a penny? 14 Take what is thine, and go thy way: I will also give to this last even as to thee. 15 Or, is it not lawful for me to do what I will? is thy eye evil, because I am good?

 

[JimR-OCDS]

Don’t attempt to compare your level of faith with the zeal of other people.

Christ comes to every person according to their need and where they are at in their faith.

For myself, I did have a born again experience. When I abandoned my will and gave myself totally over to Him, he came to me in a profound and wonderful way.

When I shared this with my uncle, who had been a devote Catholic all of his life, he merely shrugged and said, “great.”

I thought, how is it he doesn’t feel what I do?

Over the past 32 years, thinking about this, I came to learn why.

My faith was not greater than his, but new. He always had faith, even as a teenager, when he entered the seminary, thinking he was being called to be a priest. Such was not the case, but he always kept his faith. His faith was deep.

For myself however, I rejected the Church, Jesus and was pretty much an agnostic. I rebelled against the established Church. I lived a life of sin, to the highest degree possible for me.

When I finally came to Christ, He saved me, and I knew it. It was such joyous experience, I was high as a eagle,… I was all full of zeal and excitement.

I was new in the faith, where my uncle, was so much further into it we couldn’t connect, until, my joyous feelings eventually subsided, and I began to grow deeper in faith. Eventually, I came to understand that my uncle’s level of faith was so far beyond me at the time, I could never have understood it.

So, my point here is, follow your own spiritual journey which Christ has mapped out for you, and don’t concern yourself with others. You will be deeper than others who seem to have much more, but actually do not, but you will also be less deep, than those who you are completely unaware of. Let Jesus be your focus, not the faith of others.

God Bless
Jim

 

[asia53]

It seems to me that it isn’t so much being “shoved” in the right direction, rather drawn by the Holy Spirit. God doesn’t push us – He gives us the ability to decide.

Amen!

 

[Gottle_of_Geer]

Not necessarily in the evangelical sense, but any sort of religious awakening where one suddenly finds Jesus.

If God is pushing you towards accepting him, isn’t that unfair to the people who are never given a shove in the right direction?

But how do we know that they are not ? We may not see it - that is no reason to suppose God does not give it; He is God, & works in ways of which we can have no clue at all.​

As to the issue of fairness - yes, it is Just is it is grossly unfair that millions of people were born, & lived, & died, without being evangelised. God’s grace is unfair - it has nothing to do with our deserts. Far from it - “what we truly deserve” is what the Church prays God not to give us, because damnation is what we truly deserve. It is “unfair” that we do not live in Saudi Arabia, whereas many do - which on the face of it makes faith in Christ impossible to spread. What looking at externals does not allow for is the ability of God to overcome any & every obstacle - every attempt man makes to thwart Him, becomes another means of His working His Will.

Technically “born again” experiences would in many instances count as revivals or awakenings of the grace of baptism, or else of the grace of other sacraments, or of other graces. What is certain is that all grace is God’s, & that He works as He Wills.