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Tomster
Guest
But doesn’t that conflict with their teaching of Sola Scriptura? Is there a contradiction here?
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aidanbradypop
Guest
Very much so
Sola Scripture is a tradition of most Protestants. They proclaim they are Scripture alone, yet scripture alone is not found in scripture, rather the opposite is found. Some deny it outright while others will agree that they maintain some sort of tradition. Like the post above us, they hold to tradition as long as it does not trump or contradict scripture but many of their traditions do however.
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Tomster
Guest
Well, if that is so, whose tradition is correct and whose is incorrect? How does one arrive at the truth in this very important matter?Very much so
Sola Scripture is a tradition of most Protestants. They proclaim they are Scripture alone, yet scripture alone is not found in scripture, rather the opposite is found. Some deny it outright while others will agree that they maintain some sort of tradition. Like the post above us, they hold to tradition as long as it does not trump or contradict scripture but many of their traditions do however.
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aidanbradypop
Guest
I’m not sure I can answer to who is correct or incorrect. I can simply state what I believe. I believe in the One Holy, Catholic and Apostolic Church. I believe in Sacred Scripture and Tradition. I believe that the Traditions passed down to us through the Apostles are correct and those Traditions bring me into the fullness of faith in Jesus Christ.
If a tradition in any other religion tends to steer you away from Christ than I would cast judgment on that tradition and not the person that follows it. I believe Scripture Alone is a false tradition, but I cannot fault someone for being dedicated to Scripture.
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Tomster
Guest
Well said!I’m not sure I can answer to who is correct or incorrect. I can simply state what I believe. I be in the One Holy, Catholic and Apostolic Church. I believe in Sacred Scripture and Tradition. I believe that the Traditions passed down to us through the Apostles are correct and those Traditions bring me into the fullness of faith in Jesus Christ.
If a tradition in any other religion tends to steer you away from Christ than I would cast judgment on that tradition and not the person that follows it. I believe Scripture Alone is a false tradition, but I cannot fault someone for being dedicated to Scripture.
Thank you.
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SecretaryMonday
Guest
I see a great reliance on Christian Tradition in Protestantism, and not accidentally, either. There is some effort to continue what the early church started, even if ‘big-T Tradition’ doesn’t mean the same thing to them that it may mean to Catholicism. In my very limited education, I see Calvinists quoting Augustine, Lutherans harking back to some of the early ecumenical councils, and other examples of the dependance on the authority of some form of Tradition. Even denominations that don’t appear to have any respect for the early councils and Fathers still hold to other Christian traditions that they perceive are in the Bible - which is another Tradition. Without Tradition, there is no Sacred Scripture.
I was taught that the Bible was the Christian’s authority, but in the Protestant atmosphere that I grew up in, there was no one who had the authority to tell me that the Bible was my authority. It seemed that the best they could do was suggest the Bible to me as something beneficial, time-tested and possibly higher than themselves, but I didn’t see that they had any business claiming anything else and “forcing” it on me as an essential and authoritative Christian standard. And if someone DID have the right to tell me that I must believe and obey Sacred Scripture, they would also have to have some kind of super-authority over Christianity that I must subject myself to, and at the time there was no such ‘super-authority’ that I could see, no one who could give me a definitive answer when I had questions. The Tradition of the Bible was something that eventually provoked the need for Catholicism in me.
I was taught that the Bible was the Christian’s authority, but in the Protestant atmosphere that I grew up in, there was no one who had the authority to tell me that the Bible was my authority. It seemed that the best they could do was suggest the Bible to me as something beneficial, time-tested and possibly higher than themselves, but I didn’t see that they had any business claiming anything else and “forcing” it on me as an essential and authoritative Christian standard. And if someone DID have the right to tell me that I must believe and obey Sacred Scripture, they would also have to have some kind of super-authority over Christianity that I must subject myself to, and at the time there was no such ‘super-authority’ that I could see, no one who could give me a definitive answer when I had questions. The Tradition of the Bible was something that eventually provoked the need for Catholicism in me.
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FabiusMaximus
Guest
What Luther meant by Sola Scriptura is not the Bible alone without any other reference, but that the Bible is the absolute final standard to which we compare doctrine. For instance, indulgences, because it isn’t spelled out in the Bible, was considered an added doctrine not part of the original Church. It’s not that there is no place for tradition. Luther respected tradition greatly, he based himself on the Church Fathers.
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aidanbradypop
Guest
The Trinity is not spelled out in Sacred Scripture. Is it an added doctrine?
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FabiusMaximus
Guest
Perhaps not, but you can see it evidenced within the text.
However, some would agree with you on that. There are Oneness Penetcostals that believe that the entire concept of the Trinity was man-made an extrabiblical, and they therefore reject it.
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aidanbradypop
Guest
Therefore, one cannot pick out which doctrines they like and disregard those they do not. The foundation of all Protestantism is on Catholic doctrine.
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SteveVH
Guest
We cannot speak of the Sacred Tradition of the Catholic Church in the same terms as “traditions” in Protestantism. One concerns the preservation and handing down of divinely revealed truth, the other concerns human traditions.
And for those who would hold Sacred Scripture above Sacred Tradition, you forget that the New Testament came out of the Sacred Tradition of the Church. The Church possessed the fulness of truth before there ever was a Bible.
And for those who would hold Sacred Scripture above Sacred Tradition, you forget that the New Testament came out of the Sacred Tradition of the Church. The Church possessed the fulness of truth before there ever was a Bible.
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SonCatcher
Guest
The emphasized line itself is a tradition that supersedes Scripture. No where does Scripture claim to be the ultimate authority. Rather, it places ultimate authority with the Church (community of believers, if you will).
I am unaware of any Catholic doctrine that is truly universally rejected by Protestants. The distinction between Catholics and High Church Lutherans or Anglicans, particularly, is vanishingly small (Marcus Grodi’s program, “The Journey Home,” regularly hosts converts from those traditions). Even beyond that, there are Protestant factions that have “rediscovered” some doctrine or other.
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Tomster
Guest
One Catholic doctrine that could be considered universally rejected by all Protestants is Transubstantiation. (The Ultimate Unifier)
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FabiusMaximus
Guest
Well that is actually one of the reasons I began questioning Evangelicalism. Not this specific issue, but on the question of, why am I right?Therefore, one cannot pick out which doctrines they like and disregard those they do not. The foundation of all Protestantism is on Catholic doctrine.
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Chiefsinner
Guest
That’s true the point of the question is to analyze this angle…
Protestants will often argue that it is better to trust in the authority of Scripture alone as opposed to the Magisterium and Sacred Tradition. However, I found that Protestants trusted the authority of historians, biblical scholars, and theologians to provide them with the most reliable texts, the most accurate translations, and the most historically and culturally faithful interpretations of those texts. And yet they have never met any of these individuals, had only indirect access to how they had gone about their research, and was largely ignorant of the biases they may or may not have brought with them in their work.Protestants are trusting in a “magisterium” of Protestant historians, scholars, and theologians as the Catholic who trusts in the Church.
So that is bringing tradition into the picture…
Protestants will often argue that it is better to trust in the authority of Scripture alone as opposed to the Magisterium and Sacred Tradition. However, I found that Protestants trusted the authority of historians, biblical scholars, and theologians to provide them with the most reliable texts, the most accurate translations, and the most historically and culturally faithful interpretations of those texts. And yet they have never met any of these individuals, had only indirect access to how they had gone about their research, and was largely ignorant of the biases they may or may not have brought with them in their work.Protestants are trusting in a “magisterium” of Protestant historians, scholars, and theologians as the Catholic who trusts in the Church.
So that is bringing tradition into the picture…
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Tomster
Guest
Interesting how that works, isn’t it?
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aidanbradypop
Guest
I had that same question some 20 years ago. I realized that if I went with my sinful nature of what I deemed as right or wrong, I often allowed pride and ego to make the choice rather than God. I then put my trust and faith in Christ and His Church to establish doctrine for my life.
With many of Protestant traditions comes false beliefs on with Tradition really is. They gave and still give authority to men that came many years after Christ and the Apostles. They place authority with the pastor on Sunday at their congregation that tells them Catholics worship Mary over Jesus. They come to accept this as fact, which then produces a false tradition passed down from generation to generation.
If one would stop a research, they would come to the conclusion that the majority of their beliefs come from Catholic doctrine and Sacred Tradition.
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Chiefsinner
Guest
Is that actually preached at their churches in my entire time at a catholic church I have never really heard the word protestants mentioned…
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SonCatcher
Guest
As stated previously, there are High Church Anglicans who actually believe this.
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SonCatcher
Guest
When you have the fullness of the Truth, you need only preach the truth. There is no need to attack an untruth because people will discover that for themselves.
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