Aren't protestants following tradition too?

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Gaelic_Bard said:
It should be, if simply because it is based on a certain historical view popular during the period that held Revelation was being fulfilled during the time of the Reformation. From a historical perspective, this is where the idea of the RCC being the harlot of Babylon comes from, etc.
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GB: I’m not sure what you mean by “It should be”
Do you mean you agree that the office of the Papacy or perhaps the pope himself is Anti Christ? Is that what you mean?

Mary.
 
MaryT777 said:
GB: I’m not sure what you mean by “It should be”
Do you mean you agree that the office of the Papacy or perhaps the pope himself is Anti Christ? Is that what you mean?

Mary.
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Sorry…hate typing on the mobile device. I meant that particular article in the Book of Concord should be removed. It doesn’t really reflect how Lutherans nowadays view the papacy. It is kind of “time bound” to the early Lutherans eschatalogical views. Only a few uber diehards hold to it now.

Most will, at best, just say something along the lines of “well the pope teaches doctrines opposed to Christ so the office is anti-Christ.”
 
Gaelic_Bard said:
Sorry…hate typing on the mobile device. I meant that particular article in the Book of Concord should be removed. It doesn’t really reflect how Lutherans nowadays view the papacy. It is kind of “time bound” to the early Lutherans eschatalogical views. Only a few uber diehards hold to it now.

Most will, at best, just say something along the lines of “well the pope teaches doctrines opposed to Christ so the office is anti-Christ.”
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Yes that’s my understanding. I wonder who has the authority to change that tradition in the Lutheran Church.
 
MaryT777 said:
Yes that’s my understanding. I wonder who has the authority to change that tradition in the Lutheran Church.
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My guess is it never would be. It’s just been slightly modified to be adapted to changing viewpoints. Kinda like that whole Muslims, Jews and pagans are doomed thing from the Council of Florence 😛
 
Gaelic_Bard said:
My guess is it never would be. It’s just been slightly modified to be adapted to changing viewpoints. Kinda like that whole Muslims, Jews and pagans are doomed thing from the Council of Florence 😛
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I’m waiting for the ‘official modification’ report to be sent to me personally
LOL! :; then I will forward it to Pope Francis.

Peace in Christ.
Mary.
 
MaryT777 said:
I’m waiting for the ‘official modification’ report to be sent to me personally
LOL! :; then I will forward it to Pope Francis.

Peace in Christ.
Mary.
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I can see the headline now, “Pope announces great relief during this week’s Wednesday press media, states he is happy he is no longer the anti-Christ.”
 
MaryT777 said:
I’m waiting for the ‘official modification’ report to be sent to me personally
LOL! :; then I will forward it to Pope Francis.

Peace in Christ.
Mary.
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In truth though…the statement is from the Smalcald Articles and is never referenced anywhere else in the confessions. Ultimately it was Luther being, well…Luther.
 
Gaelic_Bard said:
I can see the headline now, “Pope announces great relief during this week’s Wednesday press media, states he is happy he is no longer the anti-Christ.”
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ROFLOL…Hmmm. I have to discern what reaction would the Pope have:
👍
Headlines"
Catholics do happy dance with the confessional Lutherans over new announcement.
LOL…
 
MaryT777 said:
ROFLOL…Hmmm. I have to discern what reaction would the Pope have:
👍
Headlines"
Catholics do happy dance with the confessional Lutherans over new announcement.
LOL…
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Lol…confessional Lutherans, Roman Catholics, six of one, half dozen of the other.
 
pablope said:
Does calling the pope an anti-christ is a right reflection of Scripture, Jon?

Is this a proper teaching of a church?
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No, but we do believe that the claim of universal jurisdiction,
the claim of being the vicar of Christ is opposed to the historic
Teaching of the church, and that is the primary source of the charge
against the office.

Jon
 
MaryT777 said:
it’s his OFFICE is anti-Christ is what LCMS posters state on this board.
That issue has been “danced around” never really answered except this Pope or that Pope isn’t anti Christ etc etc. or it seems certain LCMS members no longer agree with this.

If it no longer applies the Lutheran Confessions should so be amended (if that’s possible to admit one made a mistkae) It would help further “ecumentical” dialogue.

In a “right” ecumenical council as defined by the Lutheran. This seems do be defined by the LCMS as one that agrees with th Lutheran Confessions as its outcome.
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No pope has ever been THE Anti-Christ, but we believe the claim they make for the office is opposed to the early Church. And we site Nicea canon 6.
 
“presiding over the brotherhood of love” [prokathemene tes agapes] 👍 Ignatius of Antioch
 
JonNC said:
No, but we do believe that the claim of universal jurisdiction,
the claim of being the vicar of Christ is opposed to the historic
Teaching of the church, and that is the primary source of the charge
against the office.

Jon
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Sometimes we must make difficult choices 😉
 
Apostolic Canon 34
  1. The bishops of every nation must acknowledge him who is first among them and account to him as their head, and do nothing of consequence without his consent. But each may do those things only which concerns his own parish and the country places which belong to it. But neither let him, who is the first, do anything without the consent of all, for so there will be unanimity, and God will be glorified through the Lord in the Holy Spirit.
holytrinitymission.org/books/english/canons_apostles_grabbe.htm
 
JonNC said:
No pope has ever been THE Anti-Christ, but we believe the claim they make for the office is opposed to the early Church. And we site Nicea canon 6.
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Hello my friend. But unfortunately, canon 6 is a rather weak argument against the pope’s universal jurisdiction. As I have stated, if canon 6 rebukes universal jurisdiction,then why any patriarch even feel compelled to travel hundreds of miles to let the Bishop of Rome resolve the matter…long before Nicaea 325 AD? Not merely give his two cents, but resolve it?

And it is not opposed to early church, rather its supports it a lot more than rebukes it.
 
Nicea325 said:
Hello my friend. But unfortunately, canon 6 is a rather weak argument against the pope’s universal jurisdiction. As I have stated, if canon 6 rebukes universal jurisdiction,then why any patriarch even feel compelled to travel hundreds of miles to let the Bishop of Rome resolve the matter…long before Nicaea 325 AD? Not merely give his two cents, but resolve it?

And it is not opposed to early church, rather its supports it a lot more than rebukes it.
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And so it goes, my friend. Tomster has mentioned that an Orthodox priest friend of his believes that unity is but 2 to 3 years away. That would solve it, as far as I’m concerned.

Jon
 
The letter from Pope Julius to Alexandria in regards to St Athanasius is revealing in how the Canons actually worked and where the same issues as now occurred then. The Primacy worked no different than as described, be it some had their own agenda.
 
MaryT777 said:
Why can’t you simply read the Scriptures and interpret it yourself? What if your Pastor is wrong?
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Because I’m a fool! I’m barely smart enough to see my limitations, and I must give thanks to God for that.

My pastor has gone through very rigorous training, and If I had doubt, I trust the teaching of my church as it is God given.

IF my pastor is wrong, I know that God will not judge either him or myself for our error, for it was honestly come by and probed with the most rigor we could muster.
 
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