Arguing with Protestants is a waste of time

[Grace_Seeker]

Arguing with Protestants that insist Catholics prove some part of the Faith with references to the Bible is a waste of time. The Faith isn’t dependent on Sacred Scripture; Sacred Scripture depends upon the Faith!

Why would you want to argue with Protestants anyway? Don’t Protestants and Catholics alike proclaim the same faith? I personally think the differences between Protestants and Catholics are rather minor.

Wouldn’t it be better to investigate those differences together, rather than trying to prove that one person was right and the other was wrong. In my experience when two well-meaning people disagree with each other, it isn’t because they are too stubborn to strive for agreement as much as they don’t understand what the other is actually saying.

It sounds like you prefer to write Protestants off. Is that what you are saying or do you have some other intent? I guess the other option is that we are not dealing with well-meaning people. I would hate to think that were true of those who bear the name of Christ in the world.

 

[ccfbob]

Cafeteria Catholic, Ha! I like that saying.

Anyway, I was skimming through this thread and someone made reference to Protestants, born again people actually thinking they can do anything and still not fall from grace. That is not exactly true, there are many different churches that believe you can fall from Grace. It’s a hotly debated subject on the Born Again message boards. Baptists as a whole believe you can’t fall from grace, but me as an individual am not really sure. That is another reason I won’t argue religion, who can dig your heals in as your chosen faith is the only path, but all of us will find out what is truely what when we are one day standing in front of the throne of God. What does Calvary believe on this subject?

One thing I will comment on that the Catholic Church NEEDS to change, and that is that community wine goblet. wipe off with a linen cloth…(next person) wipes with a linen cloth. Yikes! If we ever have a dangerous epidemic like that bird flue could be. That cup will not be sharing in the blood of Christ but the cup of infection, or death if the mortality rate is high.

In my church when we have communion, which happens first Sunday of the month. Everyone stays in their seats and they first pass around the communion wafers, but you don’t pop them in your mouth until the Preacher explains the last supper and then everyone does it together…but that part is not really my point.

When it comes to the blood part. My church has these gold cup holder things. it is a gold plated disk with about fifty holes in each disk where itsy bitsy plastic cups fit. Everyone who can participate in this part of the service has their own little cup, so no sharing spit.

Now Catholics, tell me why this can’t be done in the Catholic church. Even if people still want to go up in line and partake in the blood, why can’t the cup barer hold the little disk thingy so everyone can chose their own individual little plastic cups of wine?

Keep in mind that when the church started, the members didn’t understand the concept of infection and germs, but we do.

As I recall Calvary teaches once saved, always saved.

As regards the Cup. I think the Catholic position would start at the Last Supper. Jesus took the CUP, Blessed it and gave thanks, and gave the Cup to His disciples…

Believe me, I am a germ freak! I am also an alcoholic, so partaking in the Precious Blood of our Lord was cautious for me. I got over the germ thing, figuring if the dear Lord were to take me that way, what a way to go!!! On the alcohol part, I consulted a Priest and he advised it should be ok, and the Lord would give me strength. And HE has. I cant wait to receive the Precious Blood of our Lord when available. It is like lightening straight through my body.

I also think that a Catholic teaching would be it is more reverent and safer not to spill, etc. the Precious Blood in one or two main cups, rather than several small cups. Mother Church takes great pains on protecting both forms (species) of the Eucharist (Greek for Thanksgiving).

Does your Church use wine as in the Bible, and the Catholic Church? At Calvary, they used grape juice.

Well that is some of my thoughts. It is great to see that you have such a devotion to our Lord and His gift to us.

Peace of the Lord be with you,

Bob
“Agnus Dei, qui tolis peccata mundi, miserere nobis.”
(Lamb of God, who takes away the sins of world, have mercy on us.)

 

[Dianne2us]

As I recall Calvary teaches once saved, always saved.

As regards the Cup. I think the Catholic position would start at the Last Supper. Jesus took the CUP, Blessed it and gave thanks, and gave the Cup to His disciples…

Believe me, I am a germ freak! I am also an alcoholic, so partaking in the Precious Blood of our Lord was cautious for me. I got over the germ thing, figuring if the dear Lord were to take me that way, what a way to go!!! On the alcohol part, I consulted a Priest and he advised it should be ok, and the Lord would give me strength. And HE has. I cant wait to receive the Precious Blood of our Lord when available. It is like lightening straight through my body.

I also think that a Catholic teaching would be it is more reverent and safer not to spill, etc. the Precious Blood in one or two main cups, rather than several small cups. Mother Church takes great pains on protecting both forms (species) of the Eucharist (Greek for Thanksgiving).

Does your Church use wine as in the Bible, and the Catholic Church? At Calvary, they used grape juice.

Well that is some of my thoughts. It is great to see that you have such a devotion to our Lord and His gift to us.

Peace of the Lord be with you,

Bob
“Agnus Dei, qui tolis peccata mundi, miserere nobis.”
(Lamb of God, who takes away the sins of world, have mercy on us.)

Thanks Bob for answering that question. I had a feeling about the, spilling of the wine because if you think about it, there will be a little residue left in each up after you take a drink. One thing though about the “one cup” and the bread (or body) the original bread didn’t come in the form of communion wafers, so well…but I’m splitting hairs…LOL!

My church is Baptist which I mentioned above, and Baptists are notoriously against drinking, espiecially Southern Baptists. They argue that they didn’t have a the capability to ferment the wine like we do today…(WHAT …You just keep telling yourself that… )

The particular church I belong to was founded by German Immigrents after World War II, when they came over to begin a new life in America. I’m not German but French and English and not related to the founding members, . Anyway Germans as a whole really do enjoy their beer and wine so and occasional drink is okay, its drunkenness that is the sin. Wine in my church was served until, (like you mentioned) about anyone having an alcohol problem. I guess a member was recovering and as a consideration for him the whole church switched to grape juice because it was still considered “fruit of the vine.”

Different churches are free to dictate their own rules to members. My church is against smoking, but you can have an occasional drink.

My cousins church is opposed to drinking, (I mean split Hell wide open against) but in between Sunday school and the service I saw a few of them outside smoking like fiends even the pastors wife… I was a little shocked.

 

[ccfbob]

My cousins church is opposed to drinking, (I mean split Hell wide open against) but in between Sunday school and the service I saw a few of them outside smoking like fiends even the pastors wife… I was a little shocked.

Hey we are all human and fallen, but with God’s Grace, all things are possible. Our family switched to a “Christian Scool” some of us thought everything was going to be rosie and all Biblical and all that. Few yrs later, guess what, same ol’ same ol’. We Home Schooled our last child for her last 3 yrs. of H.S. She graduated at 16 1/2 yrs old.

BTW are you aware of EWTN? They are at EWTN.com and also have world-wide TV and Radio Networks. Check out your area stations. They have a lot of great discussions and information as does Catholic Answers Radio program. I think you will enjoy them!

 

[Dianne2us]

Hey we are all human and fallen, but with God’s Grace, all things are possible. Our family switched to a “Christian Scool” some of us thought everything was going to be rosie and all Biblical and all that. Few yrs later, guess what, same ol’ same ol’. We Home Schooled our last child for her last 3 yrs. of H.S. She graduated at 16 1/2 yrs old.

BTW are you aware of EWTN? They are at EWTN.com and also have world-wide TV and Radio Networks. Check out your area stations. They have a lot of great discussions and information as does Catholic Answers Radio program. I think you will enjoy them!

Good for your daughter, she must be smart. I am really happy about my chosen sect of Christianity, but I will honest about one of the main reasons I left the church. Warmth, fellowship and friendliness among the clergy toward the people. In my own experience I found the clergy intouchable and set appart rather than warm and friendly, of course that was my experience but there is the old saying “One Bad Apple” I happened to find a few bad apples. Anyway I will say that I am here mainly for research purposes. I am a budding novelist, (you wouldn’t know from my spelling, I know its terrible, but I can write a great story) anyway my characters are Catholic and I need a little info on the church during the dark ages. I asked the resident priest a question via PM over a week ago and have not gotten a response. This only solidifies my opinion on the Catholic Clergy being (for no better word, RUDE) he could write me back and say he can’t answer it, its better than ignoring someone. …

One thing I have found scoping through all of Christianity, is they all have problems and people will be people. Sometimes the most devout are the biggest stinkers, so I’m not surprised you had a problem with Christian education. The same teasing, the same cattiness you see in public education.

 

[ccfbob]

Good for your daughter, she must be smart. I am really happy about my chosen sect of Christianity, but I will honest about one of the main reasons I left the church. Warmth, fellowship and friendliness among the clergy toward the people. In my own experience I found the clergy intouchable and set appart rather than warm and friendly, of course that was my experience but there is the old saying “One Bad Apple” I happened to find a few bad apples. Anyway I will say that I am here mainly for research purposes. I am a budding novelist, (you wouldn’t know from my spelling, I know its terrible, but I can write a great story) anyway my characters are Catholic and I need a little info on the church during the dark ages. I asked the resident priest a question via PM over a week ago and have not gotten a response. This only solidifies my opinion on the Catholic Clergy being (for no better word, RUDE) he could write me back and say he can’t answer it, its better than ignoring someone. …

One thing I have found scoping through all of Christianity, is they all have problems and people will be people. Sometimes the most devout are the biggest stinkers, so I’m not surprised you had a problem with Christian education. The same teasing, the same cattiness you see in public education.

Here is a good program on the Dark ages you may want to listen to. It is from EWTN (Eternal Word Television Network)
ewtn.com/vondemand/audio/intro.asp

The above link should get you to a page where you can type in dark ages. Do this in the lower fill in box(window) for all programs. You should come up with 3 items, I only know of item 3, it is really good. Hope it helps you.

Yes, I know the Clergy seem to be that way here sometimes too. I am sorry you had to deal with that. But, just like the faith of Israel, and as Jesus taught us, "The teachers of the law and the Pharisees sit in Moses’ seat. So you must obey them and do everything they tell you. But do not do what they do, for they do not practice what they preach. They tie up heavy loads and put them on men’s shoulders, but they themselves are not willing to lift a finger to move them. (Matt 23, 2-4). Hearing that from the Lord gives me courage to press on in those times…“test everything and hold on to the good”.

 

[Dianne2us]

Thank you Bob for your kindness and the links, You are a good example of a good Christian person.

Matthew 7:20 Wherefore by their fruits you shall know them.

 

[Mimi]

Dianetous wrote, in part:

In my church when we have communion, which happens first Sunday of the month. Everyone stays in their seats and they first pass around the communion wafers, but you don’t pop them in your mouth until the Preacher explains the last supper and then everyone does it together…but that part is not really my point.

It must be hard to wait that long for communion to come around. The Catholic Church has communion EVERY DAY! If not a Mass, at least there is a word and communion service.

And ccfbob, I love your testimony here, but please remember that we receive the WHOLE body, blood, soul AND divinity of Jesus in the host. It is not necessary to receive from the cup at all if you've received the host.

I heard our priest say that there has NEVER been a case of communicable disease linked to the common cup. What a miracle that is! I have tended to pass it up, but lately have been receiving from the cup as well. Up in the choir loft, we only get offerred the host, and that should be enough for anyone.

Diane, please re-consider that you are missing encountering Jesus in the most intimate way you possibly can on this earth, in Holy Communion. 

God Bless!
Mimi

 

[Dianne2us]

I heard our priest say that there has NEVER been a case of communicable disease linked to the common cup. What a miracle that is! I have tended to pass it up, but lately have been receiving from the cup as well. Up in the choir loft, we only get offerred the host, and that should be enough for anyone.

Diane, please re-consider that you are missing encountering Jesus in the most intimate way you possibly can on this earth, in Holy Communion.

God Bless!
Mimi

I’m not saying your priest is giving false testimony, but I wonder if there has ever been a study done?

And I said before, it has been almost three weeks and my email to the resident priest at this board has gone unanswered. Just confirming my belief that the clergy is cold and untouchable. I’d rather be in a church where I feel fellowship, but thanks for your concern, Mimi.

When my beloved Uncle was on critically ill and not expected to survive it took one phone call to a church friend to start a prayer chain by seven of my bretheren, and I got a phone call that night from my pastor and he prayed with me over the phone. My Uncle survived that night.

 

[DB_AND_ALI]

What may seem like a waste of time is definately not. As a convert to the Catholic Church I praise God that I was drawn into the arguements for and against the Catholic Church and my 3-4 years over turning every stone was not in vain. Don’t give up on folks simply because they get under your skin and challenge your faith. Praise God that through it your are becoming a stronger Catholic even when you may feel upset ot angry, and praise God that Protestants who come here to challenge our faith and instruments in raising up and strengthening new Catholic apologists. There are also many opportunities to develope some new and lasting friendships with Protestant brothers and sisters:thumbsup:

Well said…i used to be very impatient with some of my Protestant ‘hardline’ brothers , until i realised that the strongest catholics in our parish were the converts ! Peace and joy to all in HIS name…

 

[Philthy]

My point is: Sacred Scripture can NEVER, alone, convert a pagan or heretic to the Faith - that is only accomplished by the person allowing himself to be guided to the Faith by the Holy Spirit. One can quote Sacred Scripture to a unbeliever until they are blue in the face, but that will never convert them to the Faith. Sacred Scripture alone MAY convert someone to one of the many heretical Protestant denominations, but never to the fullness of the Faith.

Your conclusion (that engaging Protestants in dialogue can not result in conversion) is not entirely true. In fact, it is only true in the most technical sense that conversion is always accomplished by the Holy Spirit. But it is false in that God is the one who determines the means for people to respond to his Spirit. He just may use such interfaith dialogue as “a” means for converting the hearts and minds of those who are truly seeking Him. I think you will find plenty of converts here who had a “seed planted” during a conversation which only later resulted in the road to conversion.

 

[flyersfan1088]

And I said before, it has been almost three weeks and my email to the resident priest at this board has gone unanswered. Just confirming my belief that the clergy is cold and untouchable. I’d rather be in a church where I feel fellowship, but thanks for your concern, Mimi.

I think maybe I would send a second email before writing off an entire faith. But that’s just me. I also couldn’t help but notice that your entire reasonsing for leaving Catholicism seems to hinge on whether or not people said hello to you. Remember, worship consists of what we give to God, not what we get.

 

[Teflon93]

I think maybe I would send a second email before writing off an entire faith. But that’s just me. I also couldn’t help but notice that your entire reasonsing for leaving Catholicism seems to hinge on whether or not people said hello to you. Remember, worship consists of what we give to God, not what we get.

I can attest that my wife and I have had more interaction with both of our priests, our deacon, and even our bishop than we ever had with our Pentecostal and Methodist clergy. And it wasn’t for lack of trying to get their attention, either.

You might want to try approaching a priest directly. They are typically very, very busy (more sacraments = less time) but I’m sure they would meet with you.

Catholic Answers’ staff is probably drowning in e-mail—that should not be held against them. There are a LOT of people inquiring about Catholicism these days, thank God.

 

[Grace_Seeker]

I can attest that my wife and I have had more interaction with both of our priests, our deacon, and even our bishop than we ever had with our Pentecostal and Methodist clergy. And it wasn’t for lack of trying to get their attention, either.

And my guess is that this will very more from person to person than based on denomination. I agree that if you want answers from a Catholic priest, you may find it better to make an appointment to talk with a local parish priest than sone “answer” person on the internet. And if the local priest doesn’t connect with you, then try another one down the road a bit. I’ve know lots of priests, and never known one to turn his back on someone who needed his advice.

 

[lak611]

And my guess is that this will very more from person to person than based on denomination. I agree that if you want answers from a Catholic priest, you may find it better to make an appointment to talk with a local parish priest than sone “answer” person on the internet. And if the local priest doesn’t connect with you, then try another one down the road a bit. I’ve know lots of priests, and never known one to turn his back on someone who needed his advice.

You are correct. Similarly, Protestant pastors will make time. I have a friend who is a Methodist minister. He prayed with me when I was having difficulties in my life. He never refused or hesitated in the least. BTW, he is married to a practicing Catholic.

 

[Dianne2us]

I must give credit where credit is do. I just recieved a nice response to the PM I sent the resident priest.

God Bless,
Dianne

 

[Teflon93]

I must give credit where credit is do. I just recieved a nice response to the PM I sent the resident priest.

God Bless,
Dianne

Hi Dianne-

That’s wonderful—thanks for letting us know.