Arguing with spouse / anger sinful?

[AnneTeresa]

Obviously if I hurt the other person by hitting or wishing them evil or calling them bad names it’s sinful. But if my spouse says he would do something and didn’t do it and I express that frustration and am angry about it, is that sinful?

So it’s over something my hb said he would do and didn’t finish doing (not a minor thing but a very important thing). And I’ve been very patient for a long time, trying to encourage him to finish, and he just doesn’t do it. He talks about doing it, but doesn’t do it. So I bring it up and ask directly, are you planning to do this or not, and he gets all defensive and turns it all on me, like I’m being too demanding and nagging. What am I supposed to do if he doesn’t do it, other than tell him how I feel about his not doing it, and have told him how very important it is to me? When it is a thing he PROMISED to do and hasn’t finished doing. So I ask him “when are you going to finish it” and he gets all mad and turns it on me.

So my question is what is a good way to handle something like this?

We both raised our voices, I think he does it first to control me and I do it in response out of frustration. Also when you are really frustrated, what can you do with that frustration if the other person just won’t listen and takes everything defensively even when it’s not meant that way? I know men don’t like nagging but honestly, what are you supposed to do it they don’t pay attention to their own behavior and listen when you try to talk to them before you get angry? I noticed I ate some junk after this argument. Any thoughts?

 

[phoooiee]

It depends on the way the anger is directed.

Usually when I get angry at my husband (for the same sort of thing) it is because I can’t face the sorrow that I have that things are this way and I am not able to handle it- which is not to say that he isn’t at fault

When I let him see that sorrow instead of that anger, he can no longer hide from the situation, so this is when he starts taking steps to improve and fix the problem.

When I speak to him in anger, nothing is clear and it is so much easier for him to react in anger and rationalize that I am just unreasonable and unstable.

In short- don’t hide from the sentiment, just express it in an appropriate way (sorrow and hurt) instead of an inappropriate way (anger).

Anger just presupposes that you can change the situation by the force of your own will (pride), which you can’t. That will lead you to a pretty bad place emotionally and has initiated quite a few depressions for me. Nothing like pursuing an impossible goal to make a person feel frustrated, helpless, depressed and lost.

 

[Newbie2]

Engaged couples should follow this thread.

No, it’s not a sin to get angry out of frustration.

Is is something that he alone can do? Some repair project that “only guys” can do? Is it perhaps something that he wants to do, but maybe doesn’t have the tools to do or hasn’t done before and is wary about starting the project and doesn’t want to admit that he isn’t confident about doing it?

There have been many times when projects around the house get unfinished because I simply don’t prioritize them. I can do it, I’ve done it before and I have the stuff to do it. but when I get home, I don’t want to “work” on the house. I want to rest from “work” at work.

I’ve go one now that I’ve never done before, but it will take a couple of weeks (mainly waiting for supplies)…it’s a shower surround where I have to take out the present shower surround and see what’s beneath it (mold? rotted wood?) before I even know what’s involved in the project or how long it will take. But once I get started, there’s no going back. It’s in the kid’s bathroom and they will not be able to use it until the project is done.

I’ll admit that I don’t want to get started on it and see that it will be a huge, messy job, even though I can handle it. So, I procrastinate. Plus, even if I thought I might not be able to do it, that would be difficult for me, a guy, to admit that it’s time to call in a profesional. I take some measure of pride in being able to fix just about everything that is fixable; it just takes me longer than a pro would take.

I’m also cheap …I can’t see paying someone else for doing what I could do. Cheap + a dash of pride = procrastination. Perhaps all guys are alike.

Good way to handle it is to start over. From a guy who procrastinates himself, I’d least like to hear something like “You promised to do…” or “I’ve been waiting for…” or “When are you going to get that done…”. Although those questions are justified, to a procrastinating mind they sound like criticism and nagging. I"ve been there many times.

Better, methinks, to approach it in a “me” manner rather than in a “you” manner: “Honey, it’s important to me that (this) gets done. Can we sit down and see when you might have time to do (this thing)?”

 

[AnneTeresa]

It depends on the way the anger is directed.

Usually when I get angry at my husband (for the same sort of thing) it is because I can’t face the sorrow that I have that things are this way and I am not able to handle it- which is not to say that he isn’t at fault

Yes, this rings true for me (and hurts).

When I let him see that sorrow instead of that anger, he can no longer hide from the situation, so this is when he starts taking steps to improve and fix the problem.

When I speak to him in anger, nothing is clear and it is so much easier for him to react in anger and rationalize that I am just unreasonable and unstable.

In short- don’t hide from the sentiment, just express it in an appropriate way (sorrow and hurt) instead of an inappropriate way (anger).

Anger just presupposes that you can change the situation by the force of your own will (pride), which you can’t. That will lead you to a pretty bad place emotionally and has initiated quite a few depressions for me. Nothing like pursuing an impossible goal to make a person feel frustrated, helpless, depressed and lost.

This also rings true, he definitely responds better to sorrow, but I get so angry that it has to get to that point for him to take me seriously! So what do I do with the anger that is inside then, I can’t just manufacture sorrow can I?

 

[AnneTeresa]

Engaged couples should follow this thread.

Is is something that he alone can do? Some repair project that “only guys” can do? Is it perhaps something that he wants to do, but maybe doesn’t have the tools to do or hasn’t done before and is wary about starting the project and doesn’t want to admit that he isn’t confident about doing it?

I wish it was just a repair project. No its something very major that affects my standing in the church (don’t really want to get into that.)

I’ve go one now that I’ve never done before, but it will take a couple of weeks (mainly waiting for supplies)…it’s a shower surround where I have to take out the present shower surround and see what’s beneath it (mold? rotted wood?) before I even know what’s involved in the project or how long it will take. But once I get started, there’s no going back. It’s in the kid’s bathroom and they will not be able to use it until the project is done.

Yes, we have a hole in the bathroom wall that’s been that way for a month, but I really don’t care, not like I care about this thing.

Better, methinks, to approach it in a “me” manner rather than in a “you” manner: “Honey, it’s important to me that (this) gets done. Can we sit down and see when you might have time to do (this thing)?”

Yes, that would have been much better I think. but I can’t do it over now, if I say anything now it will just be a bigger fight I think. What can I do at this point do you think? Also I said something I maybe shouldn’t have said even though I felt it at the time. Ugh.

 

[Newbie2]

This also rings true, he definitely responds better to sorrow, but I get so angry that it has to get to that point for him to take me seriously! So what do I do with the anger that is inside then, I can’t just manufacture sorrow can I?

No, but perhaps you can not discuss the matter until you’ve cooled off. Difficult to do, no doubt, but I take my wife more “seriously” when she presents her side to me in a calm, reasoned tone of voice. Hard to argue with that, especially when she’s right.

 

[AnneTeresa]

No, but perhaps you can not discuss the matter until you’ve cooled off. Difficult to do, no doubt, but I take my wife more “seriously” when she presents her side to me in a calm, reasoned tone of voice. Hard to argue with that, especially when she’s right.

Yes, you’re right. That would be better. I should go run on the treadmill or something instead of trying to talk at those times. Thank you. I am hearing that it was not sinful though, right?

 

[Bookcat]

Yes is can be a sin to get angry… even out of frustration (with anyone…including a persons spouse or child or cousin).

Such can be a perhaps not a sin. Or often a *venial *sin.

Or at times even a mortal sin (if there is of course the three aspects…grave matter, full knowledge and deliberate consent) (for example desiring to seriously hurt or kill a person…thus seriously going against justice and charity…)

As Paul in Ephesians puts it: “Be angry but do not sin”.

There can be times when anger is good and needed…and it is not always sinful…like for example if a person is attacking ones family and one uses ones anger in defending them (proportionately).

And yes things will at least sometimes make us angry…the mere coming of the passion is not per se a sin…but what we do with it and the degree of it etc and if we consent to it or not…etc can be sinful…(often!!!)

I know when I get angry…it is a often or usually a sin. In one way or another.

Catechism:

2262 In the Sermon on the Mount, the Lord recalls the commandment, “You shall not kill,” and adds to it the proscription of anger, hatred, and vengeance. Going further, Christ asks his disciples to turn the other cheek, to love their enemies. He did not defend himself and told Peter to leave his sword in its sheath.

2302 By recalling the commandment, “You shall not kill,” our Lord asked for peace of heart and denounced murderous anger and hatred as immoral.

Anger is a desire for revenge. “To desire vengeance in order to do evil to someone who should be punished is illicit,” but it is praiseworthy to impose restitution “to correct vices and maintain justice.” If anger reaches the point of a deliberate desire to kill or seriously wound a neighbor, it is gravely against charity; it is a mortal sin. The Lord says, “Everyone who is angry with his brother shall be liable to judgment.”

 

[Newbie2]

Yes, you’re right. That would be better. I should go run on the treadmill or something instead of trying to talk at those times. Thank you. I am hearing that it was not sinful though, right?

Yep.

If it still bothers you next time you go to confession, confess it. Jesus got really angry at the moneychangers in the temple. The emotions in themselves are not sinful; intent is part of the equasion.

 

[Bookcat]

Catechism:

II. Passions and Moral Life

1767 In themselves passions are neither good nor evil. They are morally qualified only to the extent that they effectively engage reason and will. Passions are said to be voluntary, "either because they are commanded by the will or because the will does not place obstacles in their way."44 It belongs to the perfection of the moral or human good that the passions be governed by reason.45

1768 Strong feelings are not decisive for the morality or the holiness of persons; they are simply the inexhaustible reservoir of images and affections in which the moral life is expressed. Passions are morally good when they contribute to a good action, evil in the opposite case. the upright will orders the movements of the senses it appropriates to the good and to beatitude; an evil will succumbs to disordered passions and exacerbates them. Emotions and feelings can be taken up into the virtues or perverted by the vices.

1769 In the Christian life, the Holy Spirit himself accomplishes his work by mobilizing the whole being, with all its sorrows, fears and sadness, as is visible in the Lord’s agony and passion. In Christ human feelings are able to reach their consummation in charity and divine beatitude.

1770 Moral perfection consists in man’s being moved to the good not by his will alone, but also by his sensitive appetite, as in the words of the psalm: "My heart and flesh sing for joy to the living God."46

 

[puzzleannie]

Obviously if I hurt the other person by hitting or wishing them evil or calling them bad names it’s sinful. But if my spouse says he would do something and didn’t do it and I express that frustration and am angry about it, is that sinful?

?

not everything that is not sinful is then wise to do
this tactic may not be sinful but it certainly won’t produce the results you are looking for

you both need help, probably professional, dealing with control and communication issues. It is also not a sin to recognize and seek help when you need it, as you realize by posting here and being receptive to advice from old grannies like me. Sometimes it just takes a disinterested third party with the requisite knowledge to observe and comment and help you along.

If you were remodelling the house together and getting into conflicts because of it about doing it the right way you would not hesitate to get professional help and advice, and communication is no different.

 

[AnneTeresa]

you both need help, probably professional, dealing with control and communication issues.

Wow. What’s wrong with asking here and getting help and opinions? Geeze, now I need professional help.

 

[AnneTeresa]

not everything that is not sinful is then wise to do
this tactic may not be sinful but it certainly won’t produce the results you are looking for

you both need help, probably professional, dealing with control and communication issues. It is also not a sin to recognize and seek help when you need it, as you realize by posting here and being receptive to advice from old grannies like me. Sometimes it just takes a disinterested third party with the requisite knowledge to observe and comment and help you along.

If you were remodelling the house together and getting into conflicts because of it about doing it the right way you would not hesitate to get professional help and advice, and communication is no different.

You probably didn’t mean it the way it sounded, but telling me “you both need help, probably professional” based on just this post… wow, that feels really bad to me, like saying it’s wrong to post problems and ask for advice here–which I don’t agree with.

 

[phoooiee]

Yes, this rings true for me (and hurts).

This also rings true, he definitely responds better to sorrow, but I get so angry that it has to get to that point for him to take me seriously! So what do I do with the anger that is inside then, I can’t just manufacture sorrow can I?

I actually think that the anger IS the sorrow, or at least about the sorrow. When you find the source of the sorrow and accept it out of love regardless of the consequences, the anger disappears.

 

[a_priori]

Obviously if I hurt the other person by hitting or wishing them evil or calling them bad names it’s sinful. But if my spouse says he would do something and didn’t do it and I express that frustration and am angry about it, is that sinful?

So it’s over something my hb said he would do and didn’t finish doing (not a minor thing but a very important thing). And I’ve been very patient for a long time, trying to encourage him to finish, and he just doesn’t do it. He talks about doing it, but doesn’t do it. So I bring it up and ask directly, are you planning to do this or not, and he gets all defensive and turns it all on me, like I’m being too demanding and nagging. What am I supposed to do if he doesn’t do it, other than tell him how I feel about his not doing it, and have told him how very important it is to me? When it is a thing he PROMISED to do and hasn’t finished doing. So I ask him “when are you going to finish it” and he gets all mad and turns it on me.

So my question is what is a good way to handle something like this?

We both raised our voices, I think he does it first to control me and I do it in response out of frustration. Also when you are really frustrated, what can you do with that frustration if the other person just won’t listen and takes everything defensively even when it’s not meant that way? I know men don’t like nagging but honestly, what are you supposed to do it they don’t pay attention to their own behavior and listen when you try to talk to them before you get angry? I noticed I ate some junk after this argument. Any thoughts?

I think you are over-thinking this and being too hard on yourself. Never let 'em see you sweat. Just take the Socratic approach and discuss the issues by asking questions. If it doesn’t resolve, definitively state your case the go around him if possible and make an alternative plan to do it yourself or get outside assistance to accomplish it. He can lead, follow or get out of the way.

 

[phoage]

I recommend a book: The Other Side Of Love, I cannot remember the authors name, he is Christian but not Catholic.

In it he explains that anger is not sinful in and of itself. God got angry ( the golden calf, the Flood) and Jesus got angry (the money changers in the Temple). It is how you handle anger and how you deal with it and resolve it that makes the difference between sin or not.

Allowing it to fester, or when the other party gets defensive, bringing up old hurts or adding insult to injury makes the sin.

The sort version is to cool down, explain to the other person that you love them but you have been hurt and upset by this action and you want to hear their side of the story and then see if the problem can be resolved. Then listen to the other person without getting defensive.

As I said, this is the short version, read the book, he says it much better than I.

Patrick