Arguing with the sedevacantists.

[LoyalViews]

I need help! I am currently in an argument with some sedevacantists on the YouTube, I need help, so I dont start repeating myself as I have mistakenly done before!

PLEASE, do NOT debate Thank You, God Bless.

 

[Melchior_1]

What are their main complaints (as in, why is it they feel the Chair is vacant)?

 

[MarkThompson]

I need help! I am currently in an argument with some sedevacantists on the YouTube, I need help, so I dont start repeating myself as I have mistakenly done before!

PLEASE, do NOT debate Thank You, God Bless.

Just let it go, you will not “win,” just like you aren’t going to “win” at arguing with Jehovah’s Witness missionaries or a Muslim imam. The more you continue, the more you just dignify their heresies and blasphemies.

 

[StevieD]

Just let it go, you will not “win,” just like you aren’t going to “win” at arguing with Jehovah’s Witness missionaries or a Muslim imam. The more you continue, the more you just dignify their heresies and blasphemies.

I agree that it is pointless arguing with Sedevacantists, they are absolutely convinced and they are not going to move. (However, re. JW’s - my friend’s father in law did manage to convert two of them who called at his door and then four others that the first two sent to him - wow!)

 

[malphono]

I need help! I am currently in an argument with some sedevacantists on the YouTube, I need help, so I dont start repeating myself as I have mistakenly done before!

I wouldn’t worry about repeating myself in such a situation: heaven only knows that one thing the sedes do is repeat themselves … ad nauseam.

Frankly, if it were me, I wouldn’t argue with them in the first place. Talking to the wall is far more satisfying. Arguing with sedes is the same as arguing with the JH door-knocker people: no matter what position you take, no matter how solid it may be, they won’t listen. What they will do is constantly repeat their same, stale, tired, arguments, but at an increasingly high and frenzied pitch. Which brings to mind the now-infamous vuvuzela. Seems to me, though, that even the vuvuzela has a much less obnoxious sound.

 

[Apollos]

I need help! I am currently in an argument with some sedevacantists on the YouTube, I need help, so I dont start repeating myself as I have mistakenly done before!

PLEASE, do NOT debate Thank You, God Bless.

The only thing I can think of when arguing with sedevacantists is to drive home the utter hopelessness of their position. If they think there is no pope, then let them elect one. If they can’t elect one, then they are not the Church. If they are not the Church, then to hell with them. That sort of thing.

 

[SunnaB16]

What makes them think that they can read Church documents etc, and then conclude,*** USING THEIR OWN REASONING***, that there`s no pope.

They`re not thinking with the mind of the Church.

In their own way, they`re no better than the “Sola Scriptura” lot. Again: why do they think they have the right to PRIVATE INTERPRETATION of Church documents? Same diff. Gerry Matatics still has the Protestant outlook.
The Dimond brothers are a farce, but a tragic one.
They all squabble among themselves…that says a lot, for a start.

Talking others into depriving themselves of the Mass and the Sacraments…they have a lot to answer for. “Blind guides”?

Re JWs etc:
We should “argue” with them if we can. At least it lets them them know that their arguments arent as unassailable as they think they are. Good on your friends father-in-law: StevieD!

 

[TheDoctor]

Link to articles that defend your position. Even if you don’t change their minds perhaps some others reading the thread will read the articles and have their minds opened to the truth.

Don’t take it personal or let frustration get to you. In the end, you may just want to tell them that you have tried your best to instruct the ignorant. Now you must bear wrongs patiently and forgive willingly. Pray for them.

 

[SunnaB16]

PS

In the proverbial nutshell:

Who the hell do they think they are?!!!

 

[LoyalViews]

Thank you for the advice I’ll just “let’em be”

Thank you! Mods, you may now close this thread

 

[Andrew1983]

I feel a little late in the game, but what exactly is being debated? I know nothing about sedevacantists or their beliefs. Is there a link to this youtube video?

 

[archangel04]

I feel a little late in the game, but what exactly is being debated? I know nothing about sedevacantists or their beliefs. Is there a link to this youtube video?

Just look up the definition on google and you will find your answers.
WARNING Doing so you might get links to some of their web-sites claiming to be real Catholics, but beware for they are not. Learn their positions, but know that the True Church is still here and the Pope (Benedict 16) is very much the true Pope. Only reason I don’t give you links or more info is because I don’t want to promote them which would cause the topic to be locked.

 

[agent_grey]

you really can’t argue with a sedevacantist. You must understand the position if you are to have any dialogue. First and formost they believe in the chair of Peter but don’t believe that benedict sits in the chair. Therefore all arguments based upon the perpetuall office fall on deaf ears.

Somehow you need to show that Benedict does in fact sit in the Chair of Peter. Sounds like trying to convince an Orthodox.

Good luck.

Why the need to argue. I will say what I always say. When you recieve communion are your eyes opened and do you know Christ. If the answer is yes; then show them by your works. Same goes for them.

 

[johns58w]

Oh no! Are these videos from MHFM (Most Holy Family Monastery)? The Dimond brothers from New York state still ranting their sedevacantist website? They still pushing “Clown Mass” , " Pagan Mass" hollywood props?

MHFM (from Dimond brothers) is such a “trash tabloid” website. Their agenda is to drive Catholics out of Novus Ordo Masses and regard Pope Pius XII as last pope and the Chair of St. Peter is vacant ( sede vacante- vacant seat). They claim John XIII, Paul VI, John Paul I, John Paul II, and Benedict XVI as antipopes in apostasy. Probably due to the Second Vatican Council.

I saw MHFM website a few times. It’s so “fundamentalist”, obnoxious, immature." Total Tabloid Trash".

Like other posts mentioned, don’t waste time with sedevacantists and don’t even go to the website. We would like to keep this post open for others to share. God Bless.

 

[Apollos]

I need help! I am currently in an argument with some sedevacantists on the YouTube, I need help, so I dont start repeating myself as I have mistakenly done before!

PLEASE, do NOT debate Thank You, God Bless.

LOL I just though of another tack to take with them. If they think the Holy See is vacant, insist that the true successor of Peter is … and choose someone from the latest list of antipopes scattered around the globe. Throw them off balance. It would be a good exercise in debating, plus you’d learn some Catholic trivia about all these microschisms. When you study many of them, you get a feel for what they all have in common and that helps with practical discernment in the future.

 

[dsears]

I had the opportunity to visit a Benedictine monastery last weekend and take a walk with their director of vocations and a couple of their novices. We had a good laugh at something some sedevacantists had posted on line. Can’t really remember what it was but it was rather funny I do remember that.

 

[Javl]

Sedevacantists are not only schismatics but they are also cultic. Beware of their brainwashing. They’ve got it down to a science that you don’t even know you’re being brainwashed. Steer clear of them.

PAX DOMINI

Shalom Aleichem Totus Tuus Domini

 

[Cojuanco]

I’ll echo the steer clear of them bit - I have had friends that have been lost to similar heresies and schisms, and arguing with them is like arguing with an extreme fundamentalist Protestant - all they’re going to do is to state their arguments, again and louder. That’s if they don’t walk away in indignation.

 

[excubitor]

I’ll echo the steer clear of them bit - I have had friends that have been lost to similar heresies and schisms, and arguing with them is like arguing with an extreme fundamentalist Protestant - all they’re going to do is to state their arguments, again and louder. That’s if they don’t walk away in indignation.

The Sedevacantists have some powerful arguments. We should not read their material or listen to their arguments because they will beguile us unless we are extremely mature in our Catholic faith or are being supervised by someone who is. As a new Catholic I read their material and my foot nearly slipped. By the grace of God I was rescued and did not fall into their traps.

Of course everybody believes they are mature and settled in their faith, so I also urge that we take a very conservative view and assume that we are not mature enough to read their material.

If the Index of Prohibited Works was still in existence I have no doubt that this sedevacantist material would be on it. But of course me writing this is like putting a sign on a cupboard door that says “Do not look inside this cupboard”. That almost guarantees people to look into the cupboard because of curiosity. But curiosity killed the cat. Curiosity in matters of faith however kills sheep. So I urge everybody including the OP to avoid this issue for the sake of your eternal soul. Do not look at the Youtube video or persist in the debate. Truth does not come via clever debating skills. Truth comes from a quiet faith and trust in the church and her ageless teachings and her indefectable guidance.

Also we should not mock the Sedevacantists. Its not a laughing matter. Gerry Matatics was a wonderful convert from Protestantism and a wonderful defender of Catholic tradition. But he has been seduced by this powerful intellectual argument of the sedevacantists. As touching the power of reason and intellect you will not find anyone more skilled than Gerry Matatics, however what he lacks is childlike faith and trust in the church. His loss from Holy Mother Church is a terrible tragedy. We should all grieve for the loss of a favoured son, not mock and laugh. The arguments of the Sedevacantists are not childish, silly or ridiculous. If they were Gerry Matatics would not have been swayed by them. If Gerry Matatics can be turned from the true Church then this should be a warning to us all to stay away from Sedevacantism.

 

[Cojuanco]

The Sedevacantists have some powerful arguments. We should not read their material or listen to their arguments because they will beguile us unless we are extremely mature in our Catholic faith or are being supervised by someone who is. As a new Catholic I read their material and my foot nearly slipped. By the grace of God I was rescued and did not fall into their traps.

Of course everybody believes they are mature and settled in their faith, so I also urge that we take a very conservative view and assume that we are not mature enough to read their material.

If the Index of Prohibited Works was still in existence I have no doubt that this sedevacantist material would be on it. But of course me writing this is like putting a sign on a cupboard door that says “Do not look inside this cupboard”. That almost guarantees people to look into the cupboard because of curiosity. But curiosity killed the cat. Curiosity in matters of faith however kills sheep. So I urge everybody including the OP to avoid this issue for the sake of your eternal soul. Do not look at the Youtube video or persist in the debate. Truth does not come via clever debating skills. Truth comes from a quiet faith and trust in the church and her ageless teachings and her indefectable guidance.

Also we should not mock the Sedevacantists. Its not a laughing matter. Gerry Matatics was a wonderful convert from Protestantism and a wonderful defender of Catholic tradition. But he has been seduced by this powerful intellectual argument of the sedevacantists. As touching the power of reason and intellect you will not find anyone more skilled than Gerry Matatics, however what he lacks is childlike faith and trust in the church. His loss from Holy Mother Church is a terrible tragedy. We should all grieve for the loss of a favoured son, not mock and laugh. The arguments of the Sedevacantists are not childish, silly or ridiculous. If they were Gerry Matatics would not have been swayed by them. If Gerry Matatics can be turned from the true Church then this should be a warning to us all to stay away from Sedevacantism.

That of course goes without saying. But I’m talking you average Seddie, not whoever Mr. Matatics is (who is he, by the way? Don’t worry, I won’t read his books - I’ve almost slipped myself, once, and I know it is an ecclesial frying-pan.).