Argumentation with a Atheist ?

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CatholicAlbo

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Which arguments are the best to use when we are communicating with atheists ? I got a friend who has been a devote Muslim believer,but now he is atheist,he says that he prayed to “Allah” and he never had responded his prays,but he had been influenced by some atheist guys,which have showed to him "Scientific theory that god is just a big lie,and the other theories of Big Bang ,etc. I spoke to him about Jesus,and about salvation,about exorcism,etc.

How can i help to him ? What do you suggest ?
 
CatholicAlbo said:
Which arguments are the best to use when we are communicating with atheists ? I got a friend who has been a devote Muslim believer,but now he is atheist,he says that he prayed to “Allah” and he never had responded his prays,but he had been influenced by some atheist guys,which have showed to him "Scientific theory that god is just a big lie,and the other theories of Big Bang ,etc. I spoke to him about Jesus,and about salvation,about exorcism,etc.

How can i help to him ? What do you suggest ?
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The 5 proofs for the existence of God by St. Thomas Aquinas.
 
Something that might be useful would be to demonstrate that science and faith in God are not mutually exclusive.
You mentioned the big bang theory…This was first proposed by a Catholic priest.

In general though - about all you can do in discussion with an atheist is to be a good friend to them. Live your faith, be open to discussion, courteous and loving. If they are called to the faith, this approach will be the most effective. People are much more drawn to what they see than what they hear.

Peace
James
 
First thing, stop trying to convert him.

When he has birthday or something, give him a book on cosmology. Steven Weinberg, Brian Greene or Brian Cox are all good. If he understands integrals, then go straight for a university textbook – Barbara Ryden’s Introduction to cosmology is good. If he’s more into pretty pictures, go for Giles Sparrow or Michael Benson. An alternative approach would be to give him a book on philosophy, but cosmology books are easier, at least in my opinion 🙂

I’m completely serious.

From your description it looks like he has deconverted fairly recently. If so, he is now in a big emotional turmoil. Imagine that you suddenly discover that you have been lied to all your life – THAT is how he feels. Deconversion means several months of emotional rollercoaster, and attempting to selling him another religion will only make matters worse. You can also expect an excursion into militant atheism before he finally calms down.

Your friend now believes (note the word believes) that atheism is an answer to everything. It is not, but he has to figure it out himself. He is now a hardcore materialist and will reject any religious ideas a priori. The upside is that he should now become very interested in the Universe at large. And you can very easily find God in cosmology, it just takes several years, so basically, the sooner you put him on this path, the better.

Trying to feed him Christian apologetics will have the opposite effect – apologetic literature is written by believers who have zero understanding of the atheist mindset. (Not to mention that writing style is usually pretty bad anyway.)

Trust me on that, I’m speaking from experience.
 
These are great suggestions, and there is also one more thing to keep in mind.

When it comes to belief in God, there is also the element of faith.
God can not be proven completely to the rational mind that He exists.
 
ClearWater said:
The 5 proofs for the existence of God by St. Thomas Aquinas.
Click to expand...
For the love of God, no. Unless you want to engage in pointless arguments.

Tearing down Acquinas and Pascal’s wager is the atheist kindergarten nowadays. Look at any atheist forum 🙂
 
ClearWater said:
The 5 proofs for the existence of God by St. Thomas Aquinas.
Click to expand...
I have a cousin, in his 70’s, who is a scienetist. A truly decent and honorable man.

I have seen him deconstruct this in all honesty.
 
weller2 said:
For the love of God, no. Unless you want to engage in pointless arguments.

Tearing down Acquinas and Pascal’s wager is the atheist kindergarten nowadays. Look at any atheist forum 🙂
Click to expand...
Yep, that is my experience too…
 
The five proofs of Aquinas won’t work, I would recommend you to watch videos of a youtube channel titled “Philosophical failures of Christian apologetics”, watch all his video parts regarding this subject, his videos disprove all the arguments presented by the religious by using deep rationality except of shallow thinking, then if you could come up with new arguments to discuss them it would be great but for now all the old arguments will probably be easily dismissed by your friend.
 
weller2 said:
For the love of God, no. Unless you want to engage in pointless arguments.

Tearing down Acquinas and Pascal’s wager is the atheist kindergarten nowadays. Look at any atheist forum 🙂
Click to expand...
Why would I? I’ve yet to encounter an atheist who can state Aquinas’s arguments correctly, much less refute them.

Edwin
 
CatholicAlbo said:
Which arguments are the best to use when we are communicating with atheists ? I got a friend who has been a devote Muslim believer,but now he is atheist,he says that he prayed to “Allah” and he never had responded his prays,but he had been influenced by some atheist guys,which have showed to him "Scientific theory that god is just a big lie,and the other theories of Big Bang ,etc. I spoke to him about Jesus,and about salvation,about exorcism,etc.

How can i help to him ? What do you suggest ?
Click to expand...
How does the Big Bang Theory support atheism? It seems to do quite the reverse to me.

But arguing with him is probably a bad idea, unless it becomes clear that he has specific misconceptions that you can remove.

Edwin
 
I think that the single most important avenue of discussion to avoid is the idea of “proofs”. The only one that can “prove” God exists to any one is God. It’s as simple as that.

I’m no apologist by any stretch, but my experience here has taught me that there is no rational, scientific or philosophical argument that can be made that will convince someone to believe in God.

The most that one can do is to show that belief belief in God is not contrary to reason.
Belief in God - or at least being open to the possibility of God - is quite reasonable and rational. One need not have airtight “proofs” (the kind an atheist will want) in order to reasonably believe in the possibility of something.

Of course the believer is not holding to a “possibility” but to a certainty that we hold in our hearts. But such an approach can help to open the heart of the atheist and hopefully someday they too will feel God’s presence and His reality…

And of course - I must emphasize once again that it is extremely important that one live the faith in Love since actions are far more important than any words.

Peace
James
 
JRKH said:
Something that might be useful would be to demonstrate that science and faith in God are not mutually exclusive.
You mentioned the big bang theory…This was first proposed by a Catholic priest.

In general though - about all you can do in discussion with an atheist is to be a good friend to them. Live your faith, be open to discussion, courteous and loving. If they are called to the faith, this approach will be the most effective. People are much more drawn to what they see than what they hear.

Peace
James
Click to expand...
Thank you James! God Bless you!
 
LibralAteoJesus said:
The five proofs of Aquinas won’t work, I would recommend you to watch videos of a youtube channel titled “Philosophical failures of Christian apologetics”, watch all his video parts regarding this subject, his videos disprove all the arguments presented by the religious by using deep rationality except of shallow thinking, then if you could come up with new arguments to discuss them it would be great but for now all the old arguments will probably be easily dismissed by your friend.
Click to expand...
Thank you 🙂 God Bless you!
 
weller2 said:
First thing, stop trying to convert him.

When he has birthday or something, give him a book on cosmology. Steven Weinberg, Brian Greene or Brian Cox are all good. If he understands integrals, then go straight for a university textbook – Barbara Ryden’s Introduction to cosmology is good. If he’s more into pretty pictures, go for Giles Sparrow or Michael Benson. An alternative approach would be to give him a book on philosophy, but cosmology books are easier, at least in my opinion 🙂

I’m completely serious.

From your description it looks like he has deconverted fairly recently. If so, he is now in a big emotional turmoil. Imagine that you suddenly discover that you have been lied to all your life – THAT is how he feels. Deconversion means several months of emotional rollercoaster, and attempting to selling him another religion will only make matters worse. You can also expect an excursion into militant atheism before he finally calms down.

Your friend now believes (note the word believes) that atheism is an answer to everything. It is not, but he has to figure it out himself. He is now a hardcore materialist and will reject any religious ideas a priori. The upside is that he should now become very interested in the Universe at large. And you can very easily find God in cosmology, it just takes several years, so basically, the sooner you put him on this path, the better.

Trying to feed him Christian apologetics will have the opposite effect – apologetic literature is written by believers who have zero understanding of the atheist mindset. (Not to mention that writing style is usually pretty bad anyway.)

Trust me on that, I’m speaking from experience.
Click to expand...
Thank you,i totally agree with you,god bless you and thank you for your advice’s!
 
Contarini said:
How does the Big Bang Theory support atheism? It seems to do quite the reverse to me.

But arguing with him is probably a bad idea, unless it becomes clear that he has specific misconceptions that you can remove.

Edwin
Click to expand...
Thanks for your advice my friend ! God Bless you!
 
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