Arguments against public toplessness

[on_the_hill]

Why is it okay for men to be topless?

I think if it were up to my wife that would be illegal, too.

There are a couple middle aged gentlemen who are past their physical primes in our neighborhood who frequently go without shirts when they’re doing yard work. My wife’s quote, “When I drive into my neighborhood, THAT is the last thing I want to see.”

 

[Phemie]

First it would be a mortal sin for the women, and it would be a grave public scandal. Public interest should be to protect public morality. Let’s hope no one is seriously considering it.

One wonders if people haven’t gone completely insane:shrug: .

Linus2nd

Your argument has already been lost in the Canadian court system. A woman was accused of indecency for removing her top on a hot day. She fought it based on the fact that it wasn’t illegal for a man to do the same. She won. Now it’s legal to go topless but I haven’t seen anyone take advantage of that in towns and cities.

cbc.ca/news/canada/women-s-topless-court-victory-20-years-later-1.1026403

 

[Phemie]

My mother thought this was the best cure for diaper rash.
I wonder how she then dealt with, um, accidents…

It is the best cure and you just clean it up. Did that a lot with DD who had very sensitive skin and would get rashes from simply putting on a disposable diaper. A diaper rash would appear after a nap even in cloth diapers, so she was often put to nap ‘sans couche’ with lots of receiving blankets under the crib sheet. She’d run around diaperless outside on warm summer days. Heck, if you can clean up after the puppy you can clean up after the toddler.

 

[OraLabora]

Your argument has already been lost in the Canadian court system. A woman was accused of indecency for removing her top on a hot day. She fought it based on the fact that it wasn’t illegal for a man to do the same. She won. Now it’s legal to go topless but I haven’t seen anyone take advantage of that in towns and cities.

cbc.ca/news/canada/women-s-topless-court-victory-20-years-later-1.1026403

Indeed.

I’d point out that women being topless is the norm in some cultures, and the Catholic Church is, well, universal. I would assume that in those cultures, breasts aren’t as hypersexualized as here. I’ve also been on beaches in Europe where women are, optionally, topless. But this is a different culture.

When that court ruling came out, my wife thought it was ridiculous. Based on the number of topless women I see in downtown Montreal (i.e. zilch) and elsewhere, I’m guessing most women agree with her. I can’t say I disagree. I’d in fact legislate against men going topless in public as well. I just think it’s gross.

This reminds me of a sign posted at the entrance of our abbey that says “This is a house of God, modest attire is befitting”. While I haven’t seen topless women in the monastery, I have seen many who certainly have a different view than I of what constitutes “modest”. I wish, as a male, I could say that at least when I’m at the abbey I’m freed from that distraction, but alas 'tis not to be. I wish the monks would enforce it more but it would require permanently posting a monk at the entrance. In Italy, they use security guards at the entrance of major religious sites to be the “modest attire police”, and I’ve seen them turn away women and men!

 

[Faith1960]

It’s pretty simple. We cover up sexual organs. Women have three sexual organs (if you count each breast)… two of which are on their chest. Men also have three sexual organs, but all three are below the belt. Men cover up their three… The breasts on men are not sexual organs and actually have no functional purpose (kind of like the human appendix).

I hope this helps and God Bless.

Where are all the militant breastfeeding posters?

 

[on_the_hill]

Where are all the militant breastfeeding posters?

What’s militant about breast feeding?

 

[Phemie]

Where are all the militant breastfeeding posters?

Breastfeeding and going topless are two very different things.

 

[DaveBj]

Breastfeeding and going topless are two very different things.

. . . and should be discussed on separate threads.

 

[otjm]

Some years ago, one of my daughters spent time in France in college. She was unaware that there were topless beaches, but certainly was not at a loss for words when she found out first person.

I have long ago lost the missive she wrote (she has a wicked sense of humor), but in part her comments were somewhat to the effect that perhaps young men should go to one, if for no other reason than to observe 60+ year old women parading around half naked. The gist of her comment was to the effect that it just might cause a sudden decrease in hormonal surges among young men.

 

[Sky_River]

Why is it okay for men to be topless?

2 wrongs don’t make a right. Men being topless is also immodest. In my opinion, from a biblical perspective, it’s immodest for anybody to be topless.

 

[esieffe]

Long, long ago, in a galaxy far far away, I went to a topless beach in the Caribbean. This was before I became Catholic, and really, a Christian.

We were eating lunch and talking about going to a fully nude beach when suddenly two reasons why that was a HORRIBLE idea and bought lunch for themselves. I lost my appetite and almost lost my lunch.

And if something attractive was to walk across the street, think of all the traffic fatalities this would cause. No matter how you cut it, it’s just plain wrong. If you want to include men in that, just to be fair fine but … I say:

Oh no… oh my no… no way!.

 

[esieffe]

In most places, men can’t go topless in a grocery store…

The only place now days where it is permissible for men to go shirtless is vampire /werewolf movies!

 

[Sky_River]

The only place now days where it is permissible for men to go shirtless is vampire /werewolf movies!

I hate twilight.

 

[esieffe]

This is not a very pro-life statement. This is in line with the pro-choice argument that pro-life people are only pro-life until a baby is born. You are essentially telling mothers that you don’t want to see them as long as they are breastfeeding, because honestly, it is very difficult for a breastfeeding mother to leave her baby for any length of time. If a woman has the Catholic-encouraged large family, let’s say 6 kids, and breastfeeds each child for a year, that’s 6 years that you don’t want to see her.

I had a baby who for a very long time, nursed more frequently and longer than a normal baby would. I felt severe depression and loneliness because my family treated breastfeeding very similarly to you, and no matter the gathering, I was sent off to a spare bedroom, where I spent a good portion of my visit, alone, bored, able to hear the laughter and chit chat, but unable to join in.

I disagree with you that a woman should be expected to seek out isolation first. First priority is feeding the child. And children don’t need to be at home to grow (???).

“Hey… we have places to go, people to see!” Right on!!

 

[TK421]

Biologically and evolutionarily, it’s pretty straightforward why female breasts are more of an issue. Any organ that one gender possesses which the other doesn’t is going to be sensually exciting. One of the most ancient carvings in prehistoric history is a stone figure of a woman with over-sized breasts; most of us have probably seen it before in a textbook at some point.

Some people cite it as a just a product of culture, but this doesn’t answer anything. How did it become a product of culture in the first place? There has to be a reason for it, and indeed there is.

Admittedly, culture can play a limited influence on those attractions. Breasts were not as sexualized in the Renaissance age as they were in the 20th century, but then again, the human body in general wasn’t as sexualized during the Renaissance. It is nonetheless false to say that the female breast is not sexual in nature.

 

[SyroMalankara]

Truth is, everyone can naturally go naked anywhere anytime. Now, would you be comfortable with that, in your own culture, say if the elementary school teacher (male and female) in your area were doing so during work hours?

Sure, somewhere in rural tribal forests, they don’t consider that illegal or sexual, or whatever. How about in your context?

How you answer that, answers whether it is appropriate in your time and place.

 

[sw85]

Why is it okay for men to be topless?

Breasts are sacred, precisely because they are life-giving organs connected intimately with procreation and the procreative act. And sacred things should be veiled and hidden, as we hide away the Eucharist when it is not being consumed at Mass or exposed for Adoration.

 

[bbentrup]

Breasts are sacred, precisely because they are life-giving organs connected intimately with procreation and the procreative act. And sacred things should be veiled and hidden, as we hide away the Eucharist when it is not being consumed at Mass or exposed for Adoration.

If I follow this logic, don’t mouths need to be covered? Do those who have lost a breast not need to cover their chest? Are these people no longer sacred, as your definition implies? Do animal teats need to be covered? If someone takes a vow of virginity does she no longer need to cover her breast? If someone is incapable of producing milk, does she no longer need to cover her breast? For those cases where the breast needs to be veiled, are there exceptions? If so, what do the exceptions prove? You say we expose the Eucharist for adoration, but is there a similar parallel to breasts? Were the original Olympics profaned for displaying nude men? Are cultures that expose breasts profaned? Why did St. Pope JP the Great associate with same for at least one of his masses? Is the Bible sacred? If so, why do we not hide it?

I think your reasoning is too facile, even if my conclusions might look similar to yours.

 

[Midwest88]

If I follow this logic, don’t mouths need to be covered? Do those who have lost a breast not need to cover their chest? Are these people no longer sacred, as your definition implies? Do animal teats need to be covered? If someone takes a vow of virginity does she no longer need to cover her breast? If someone is incapable of producing milk, does she no longer need to cover her breast? For those cases where the breast needs to be veiled, are there exceptions? If so, what do the exceptions prove? You say we expose the Eucharist for adoration, but is there a similar parallel to breasts? Were the original Olympics profaned for displaying nude men? Are cultures that expose breasts profaned? Why did St. Pope JP the Great associate with same for at least one of his masses? Is the Bible sacred? If so, why do we not hide it?

I think your reasoning is too facile, even if my conclusions might look similar to yours.

Too facile? Are you serious? Your entire post is one big strawman.

 

[Midwest88]

I agree, for some reason, alot of people in the US have been conditioned to think any and all types of nudity and exposure are somehow dirty and need to be banned…if you look at many other countries this is not the case though, But this doesnt really surprise me, as it is clear the US thinks much of what created is also dirty and needs to be covered up or banned.

Ah, the “US are prudes and so childish when it comes to nudity. They should relax and follow the rest of the world” card.

If you look at most places that have the sculpture of David in the US, they usually put a leaf or something else to cover his private parts…??? LOL I often wonder why they do this to such a beautiful statue, it must be they dont want young kids to realize how beautiful the human body is, they would rather have kids seeing this kind of thing as dirty and nasty, makes it easier for them to ‘condition’ them on other religious beliefs as well.

I did a quick google search of the David replica’s in the US and the ones I saw did not have a fig leaf covering their penis.

bold: pretty much sums your snark up as well as your “raised catholic” bit.