Arguments concerning video games

[iamcatholic100]

I would like to share with you all two different perspectives concerning video games, both of which are YouTube videos. One of them is a secular video and the other is catholic. Feel free to share your thoughts and opinions concerning this matter, and after you have shared yours, I will share mine.

The secular video:
m.youtube.com/watch?v=-ZWfkiBY3-g

The catholic video
m.youtube.com/watch?v=r3EGCxorl_k

 

[Joe_5859]

I only watched the “Catholic” one.

Not too much I haven’t heard before. Many of the arguments (e.g. “escape form reality”, “waste of time”) are arguments that could be levied against pretty much any form of recreation. Other arguments (e.g. “rewiring of the brain”) only apply when gaming is done in excess.

Then other arguments are just silly. The riots in Ferguson are due to Grand Theft Auto? I’m sorry, that’s really stretching things. It’s not like there were never riots before that particular video game.

And then there’s the general reliance on anecdotal evidence to prove the point. One random 13 year old did this. Another random 8 year old did that. We are left to assume that video games were the underlying cause of them killing others or themselves, but all we have to go by is the makers of the video saying so. They are assuming what they are trying to prove.

There is nothing that in any way indicates why gaming in moderation would not be okay. And that’s how it is with pretty much anything in life—moderation is key.

 

[spiderweb]

I agree completely with Joe 5859 above.

Having said that, there is a little common sense that needs to be applied as well. There is a reason why movies, games, and music have ratings. Many people ignore these ratings especially when it comes to video games and younger children.

It’s also hard to draw a connection with a video game and violence when Grand Theft Auto alone has sold over 135 million copies. If a person is a video game player, the odds are they have played at least one game with violence. If that person commits a crime, it doesn’t follow that a video game made them do it, anymore than the video game didn’t make millions of others who also played the game NOT commit a crime.

I do think that they can have an affect on a child’s development in ways that are not good, but so does any other negative thing that they encounter in every day life. And if the child is playing games like Grand Theft Auto at an age where they are “learning” things from the game, than they are definitely way too young to be playing that game. That’s on the parents, not on the game makers.

 

[iamcatholic100]

I only watched the “Catholic” one.

Not too much I haven’t heard before. Many of the arguments (e.g. “escape form reality”, “waste of time”) are arguments that could be levied against pretty much any form of recreation. Other arguments (e.g. “rewiring of the brain”) only apply when gaming is done in excess.

Then other arguments are just silly. The riots in Ferguson are due to Grand Theft Auto? I’m sorry, that’s really stretching things. It’s not like there were never riots before that particular video game.

And then there’s the general reliance on anecdotal evidence to prove the point. One random 13 year old did this. Another random 8 year old did that. We are left to assume that video games were the underlying cause of them killing others or themselves, but all we have to go by is the makers of the video saying so. They are assuming what they are trying to prove.

There is nothing that in any way indicates why gaming in moderation would not be okay. And that’s how it is with pretty much anything in life—moderation is key.

Agreed.

I find it very unwise for people to scapegoat an entire medium because some people did something bad because of it. First of all, they were too young to play the game in the first place. Secondly, they probably played the game so much that it messed up their reasoning and inhibition to the point that they acted out scenes from the game. But again, this was probably due to excessive gaming, not the game itself. And thirdly, maybe they were raised in an environment that lacked order, discipline and/or love, which might of lead them to commit these heinous acts. But I guess the folks in that catholic video didn’t take these into consideration.

Also, almost everyone can agree that too much of anything is bad for you, including video games. So ya, moderation is the key. Interestingly, the secular video stated that playing video games in moderation could actually be good from your brain, in much the same way that drinking wine in moderation could be good for your health.

So overall, the catholic video made some points that could easily be rebuked. However, I do agree with them in regards to the depletion of dopamine as a result of excessive gaming.

 

[iamcatholic100]

I agree completely with Joe 5859 above.

Having said that, there is a little common sense that needs to be applied as well. There is a reason why movies, games, and music have ratings. Many people ignore these ratings especially when it comes to video games and younger children.

It’s also hard to draw a connection with a video game and violence when Grand Theft Auto alone has sold over 135 million copies. If a person is a video game player, the odds are they have played at least one game with violence. If that person commits a crime, it doesn’t follow that a video game made them do it, anymore than the video game didn’t make millions of others who also played the game NOT commit a crime.

I do think that they can have an affect on a child’s development in ways that are not good, but so does any other negative thing that they encounter in every day life. And if the child is playing games like Grand Theft Auto at an age where they are “learning” things from the game, than they are definitely way too young to be playing that game. That’s on the parents, not on the game makers.

Just think about it; over a 135 million people worldwide have played at least one GTA game, and, despite its controversial content, only a handful of people have acted out that content. If GTA or similar games do in fact cause bad behavior, then we would have a heck of a lot more of these cases. Still, these games are rated M for a reason. Even though it’s one of the best games I’ve ever played, I wouldn’t allow a seven year old play Resident Evil 4. I say, wait till there mature enough to play these games. Otherwise, it’s simply bad parenting.

 

[Joe_5859]

Just think about it; over a 135 million people worldwide have played at least one GTA game, and, despite its controversial content, only a handful of people have acted out that content. If GTA or similar games do in fact cause bad behavior, then we would have a heck of a lot more of these cases. Still, these games are rated M for a reason. Even though it’s one of the best games I’ve ever played, I wouldn’t allow a seven year old play Resident Evil 4. I say, wait till there mature enough to play these games. Otherwise, it’s simply bad parenting.

Right. And even for those who act out, the question becomes, “Did the game make them do it? Did it push them in that direction? Or do they have unrelated mental issues that would have manifested apart from the game(s)?” I don’t know the answer to that question. And the answer might vary from one situation to the next.

All this is not to condone overly graphic or morally problematic video games. I do think there can be issues with playing such games. And some of those issues are more subtle than kids acting out morally bad scenes from the games.

The problem with such broad sweeping caricatures it that it takes the extreme examples to broadly brush the entire medium. Notice how they never appeal to someone playing Super Mario or Angry Birds for some anecdote about video games leading to violence.

Honestly, I think the greater danger at present is putting smart phones into the hands of children. That’s going to have much more far reaching negative consequences—for development, social communication, work ethic, etc.—than video game consoles.

And, again, not to say that video games cannot possibly come with negative consequences. But if someone exercises prudence, discernment, and moderation, there is nothing inherently evil with the medium itself.

 

[iamcatholic100]

Right. And even for those who act out, the question becomes, “Did the game make them do it? Did it push them in that direction? Or do they have unrelated mental issues that would have manifested apart from the game(s)?” I don’t know the answer to that question. And the answer might vary from one situation to the next.

All this is not to condone overly graphic or morally problematic video games. I do think there can be issues with playing such games. And some of those issues are more subtle than kids acting out morally bad scenes from the games.

The problem with such broad sweeping caricatures it that it takes the extreme examples to broadly brush the entire medium. Notice how they never appeal to someone playing Super Mario or Angry Birds for some anecdote about video games leading to violence.

Honestly, I think the greater danger at present is putting smart phones into the hands of children. That’s going to have much more far reaching negative consequences—for development, social communication, work ethic, etc.—than video game consoles.

And, again, not to say that video games cannot possibly come with negative consequences. But if someone exercises prudence, discernment, and moderation, there is nothing inherently evil with the medium itself.

It’s like I said, people want to use a scapegoat to explain why these people did what they did. GTA is an easy target because of its controversial content. Heck, they did the same same thing with games like Doom in the wake of the Columbine Massacre.

I also agree with you in saying that we do need to be careful with the types of games we play. Does it mean that playing these types of games is immoral? No. Does it mean that it will automatically make us commit violent crimes? Absolutely not. But, like with anything else in life, we need to practice discernment.

 

[drac16]

The catholic video seemed to only address excessive gaming. Gaming for 12 hours [or more] in a day is far from being the norm. I also disagree with their assessment that gaming is a “quick fix” like drugs. Not all games are quick fixes; some of them are slow paced and methodical, like Fire Emblem. Yes, gaming can be addictive, but the fact of the matter is that each gamer has a responsibility to not ignore their personal life and the obligations therein.

 

[iamcatholic100]

The catholic video seemed to only address excessive gaming. Gaming for 12 hours [or more] in a day is far from being the norm. I also disagree with their assessment that gaming is a “quick fix” like drugs. Not all games are quick fixes; some of them are slow paced and methodical, like Fire Emblem. Yes, gaming can be addictive, but the fact of the matter is that each gamer has a responsibility to not ignore their personal life and the obligations therein.

True. Most gamers will probably say that they do more that just play video games. Also, if you guys check out the secular video, it explains how one person theorizes that video games can actually be make you smarter, because a lot a video games require creative thinking in order to overcome obstacles.

 

[edwest2]

Getting away from the spending too much time angle to the ratings issue. Yes, there are games designed specifically for little kids that have no objectionable content. But the mistake too many make is the “it’s just a game” fallacy. Games are looking more and more realistic. And no, I’m not in “the game made me do it,” it being something bad, camp. But I urge my fellow Catholics to avoid games with gratuitous sexual content, lots of blood and gore and killing, except for self-defense or spy/military work, as something fun. And then there’s the darkness. Grotesque, tear people apart evil, blood and gore and ritual sacrifice evil.

I mean, entertainment needs balance and limits. I’m not in a good place or get a good feeling when blood and gore is flying all over. Realistic? Probably not. But that kind of “realism” can deaden people - how they view killing. Grand Theft Auto? Really? Just run somebody over? Really? Unlike tabletop role-playing games, the actual visuals are more potent than verbal descriptions. Again, it’s not “the game made me do it” but the game took away part of my sensitivity.

I watched how Hollywood gradually ramped up the explicit blood and gore over the years. In the past, if you got shot, you fell over and that was it, or there was a bit of blood. Today, it can go to maniac killer plus buckets of blood. And the sexual stuff is not good for you.

Ed

 

[iamcatholic100]

Getting away from the spending too much time angle to the ratings issue. Yes, there are games designed specifically for little kids that have no objectionable content. But the mistake too many make is the “it’s just a game” fallacy. Games are looking more and more realistic. And no, I’m not in “the game made me do it,” it being something bad, camp. But I urge my fellow Catholics to avoid games with gratuitous sexual content, lots of blood and gore and killing, except for self-defense or spy/military work, as something fun. And then there’s the darkness. Grotesque, tear people apart evil, blood and gore and ritual sacrifice evil.

I mean, entertainment needs balance and limits. I’m not in a good place or get a good feeling when blood and gore is flying all over. Realistic? Probably not. But that kind of “realism” can deaden people - how they view killing. Grand Theft Auto? Really? Just run somebody over? Really? Unlike tabletop role-playing games, the actual visuals are more potent than verbal descriptions. Again, it’s not “the game made me do it” but the game took away part of my sensitivity.

I watched how Hollywood gradually ramped up the explicit blood and gore over the years. In the past, if you got shot, you fell over and that was it, or there was a bit of blood. Today, it can go to maniac killer plus buckets of blood. And the sexual stuff is not good for you.

Ed

Yes. There are indeed a lot of games that glorify graphic depictions of blood and violence, such as Mortal Kombat and the God of War series. But at the same time, there are some games which depict violence in a repulsive, disapproving manner while at same time providing gamers with both an amazing story and interesting characters, such as The Last of Us. Other games, such as Call of Duty, Halo and Battlefileld, depict violence as simply a means of self defense.

 

[iamcatholic100]

Of course, another argument both videos make is whether or not all gamers are immature. The catholic video indirectly says that excessive gameing makes one immature in that it darkens their intellect and weakens their will, making it very difficult for them to self regulate themselves. Other than that, it doesn’t say anything else. On the other hand, the secular video agrees with critics in that some gamers are immature in the way they react to getting killed, getting their teammates killed, or someone more experienced in gaming talking trash to them, especially when they are playing online. However, there are instances where people are more than willing to help you out when playing online, thereby making the experience a little more peaceful. So, it is true that some gamers are immature, but not all of them. It all depends on what game your playing online and who you’re playing with. But, I find it unwise for people to demonized an attire medium simply because some people behave badly while playing video games, because they fail to realize that that sort of behavior occurs in other aspects of life, such as sports, music, the business world, law, etc.

 

[Jared2914]

Of course, another argument both videos make is whether or not all gamers are immature. The catholic video indirectly says that excessive gameing makes one immature in that it darkens their intellect and weakens their will, making it very difficult for them to self regulate themselves. Other than that, it doesn’t say anything else. On the other hand, the secular video agrees with critics in that some gamers are immature in the way they react to getting killed, getting their teammates killed, or someone more experienced in gaming talking trash to them, especially when they are playing online. However, there are instances where people are more than willing to help you out when playing online, thereby making the experience a little more peaceful. So, it is true that some gamers are immature, but not all of them. It all depends on what game your playing online and who you’re playing with. But, I find it unwise for people to demonized an attire medium simply because some people behave badly while playing video games, because they fail to realize that that sort of behavior occurs in other aspects of life, such as sports, music, the business world, law, etc.

I think the main difference is that the majority of the population (40 and older maybe?) still sees video games as toys meant for kids. Then when they see (or hear about) graphic violence or nudity in games, which are definitely not for kids, they call it out as bad. The key issue is that feeling that games are for kids. As younger generations grow up, I think society will come to see video games the same as any other entertainment. Society is just resistant to change. It’s always been this way with new forms of entertainment.

As an adult, I don’t see anything bad about playing games in itself, but like all entertainment we have to make good choices about what we consume. Games with a lot of violence and nudity should usually be avoided just like Catholics should avoid movies with that content. There may be exceptions such as a historically accurate game meant to tell a real-life story, but in general, I think it’s better to stay away.

In my personal case, I don’t have a lot of free time, so I’ve chosen to avoid pretty much all online games, since they tend to be “endless” and it’s easy to spend a huge amount of time playing. In my case, my time needs to be used for more important things. I also choose to mostly avoid games that don’t have the ability to pause and save. This is mostly because I like to be flexible to spend time with family. I don’t ever want to have to say, “Hold on, I can’t save for another 30 minutes.” I want to have the option to get up immediately, the same way if I am watching a movie I can pause it to do something else and come back later.

So overall, games are fine for responsible adults that make good decisions for themselves. For children, parents and other caretakers need to educate themselves on the kinds of games out there and restrict access to the inappropriate ones. Most of the machines (consoles, smartphones, etc) that play games these days have parental controls. In addition, I think the rating systems work well, but parents must be paying attention and not just assuming all games are toys, suitable for all ages. Parents also need to set limits on video game time, so kids can get away and use their imagination more.

 

[iamcatholic100]

I think the main difference is that the majority of the population (40 and older maybe?) still sees video games as toys meant for kids. Then when they see (or hear about) graphic violence or nudity in games, which are definitely not for kids, they call it out as bad. The key issue is that feeling that games are for kids. As younger generations grow up, I think society will come to see video games the same as any other entertainment. Society is just resistant to change. It’s always been this way with new forms of entertainment.

That is true. Believing that video games are solely for kids is a myth that still lingers in society. The fact is, the average age of gamers is approximately 31 years old.

 

[spiderweb]

That is true. Believing that video games are solely for kids is a myth that still lingers in society. The fact is, the average age of gamers is approximately 31 years old.

I personally am above that average age and play them frequently. Personally again, I don’t enjoy the newer very realistic games, but have no problems with the older less realistic “violent” games such as Medal of Honor. Another game that I enjoyed was Mortal Kombat. I believe it was Mortal Kombat Trilogy (perhaps others as well) that had a game setting option to disable blood and “brutalities”.

I am obviously not opposed to violent video games, but the opponents of them have a very selective idea of what is or is not acceptable. I don’t ever hear of objections to other violent games such as X-Com where you are killing and dissecting aliens in order to protect Humanity. Or to Pac-man, who runs around eating ghosts. What about the great Atari classic Food Fight where you throw food at enemy chefs? No one blames the game when food fights are acted out in real life, nor did they when it was popular.

When it comes to war type games, people have been playing them long before video games. Chess comes to mind and the more modern Risk and Axis & Allies. While these games are not violent in themselves, they are based upon violence. Ultimately the individual person is responsible for their own actions in real life.

 

[BoomBoomMancini]

That is true. Believing that video games are solely for kids is a myth that still lingers in society. The fact is, the average age of gamers is approximately 31 years old.

Yeah, and I think people need to keep that in mind when they assess media. They assume games are meant for kids and then go, “But this game has all kinds of language/nudity/violence/whatever, so it’s bad.” Well, yeah, it’s bad for kids, but it’s not intended for kids in the first place.

 

[iamcatholic100]

Yeah, and I think people need to keep that in mind when they assess media. They assume games are meant for kids and then go, “But this game has all kinds of language/nudity/violence/whatever, so it’s bad.” Well, yeah, it’s bad for kids, but it’s not intended for kids in the first place.

Of course, there are also people who are on the opposite side of the spectrum who believe that it is a waste of time to prevent kids from playing mature rated games because, according to them, the kids are gonna play them anyway.