Arguments to protect unborn babies conceived in rape

[Riley259]

Hey all,

I have a friend that I have recently started talking to again. We got on the abortion topic. I told him I am adamantly Pro-Life…and then came the expected…what about rape and incest. I told him that those situations only account for about 1% of the abortions procured and it doesn’t matter, because that baby is still a human being with the right to live.

First, he is not a Catholic, and has no idea about our view on the redemptive nature of suffering and all the rest. So, he followed and said you would rather see a child suffer and be beaten and abused and blah blah blah or become a murderer because of the dad’s criminal behaviour. Automatically, assuming that this child would have a horrible life. Of course, my first comment was,“oh so just kill the baby so he doesn’t suffer, duh?” I said we cannot predetermine what are to become of people’s life. Normal people give birth to future criminals, too…

I would just like some more logical arguments to present him with on this subject. I care about him and feel maybe I am the person that is to be the one to introduce the faith and these types of things to him. Thanks for any advice and links. God Bless!

Peace

I’ve seen interviews with several people who were the product of rapes and all of them were thankful that their mother did not abort him. The relatively well known pastor, James Robison, was a product of rape and admitted so during one of his tv shows - it was a profound moment in which he tearfully admitted to being the product of rape and being thankful for life and the ability to effect so many people in a positive way with his ministry.

 

[catharina]

OP, when someone has no strong philosophy or value system that forbids abortion, it can be harder to reach them on this matter of conscience. Since your friend seems to be mostly in favor of a “woman’s right to choose” when a pregnancy is the result of rape, then the matter is one for meditation on the source of all life. People can attempt to conceive for many years and never succeed. So that clearly, an outside “Force” is at work that brings about the beginning of new life. We know the ‘force’ is God. If acknowledging that all life deserves protection then how can one forego that principle to make a “woman’s right to choose” an over-riding interest in a matter of life and death for any infant?

The new life already exists even in earliest pregnancy. Abortion murders.

 

[Lou_F]

That child brought into the world through the courage of the mother, will be her reward when she is old, when/if very ill, in need of a companion, in need of a future grandson or granddaughter, in need of a laugh, in need of a smile, in need of an extra prayer, and proof that God’s love will prevail in life’s most difficult and horrifying circumstances.

 

[RSulli]

To day, celebrating the baptism of Jesus, I was working off part of my well deserved penance The good father said:"for your penance I want you to pray for all the babies baptized this weekend. In addition, pray for all of those couples being married.

I offered the communal “Our Father” to comply; during the prayer I was struck by a thought: “What about the millions of aborted children? How could I include those little souls in my prayer?”

Aborted babies will never be baptized fully. There will be no pouring of the sacred waters of baptism over tiny shaking heads. No one will speak up for them. All of the promises, required for entry into the Church of Christ, will be forever unspoken.

Will this heinous crime deprive an innocent child the glories of heaven, consigning him to the “paradise” of the Old Testament until Christ the King descends upon the earth for the second coming .

I prayed: "Oh Father, in your infinite mercy, raise up out of paradise these victims of abortion, and in their baptism of blood, set them among the highest of your saints, beside the Thrones of Angels.

I felt just a little less sorrowful in what should have been a happy penance.

 

[rhhenry]

New to the forum. My apologies if this question is in the wrong place.

Could someone please explain to me the distinction between “rape” and “incest” in the rape/incest exception argument? Presumably, no one is referring to consensual incest, so isn’t the reference to rape/incest really a reference to rape/really horrific rape? Seems to me that “incest” is thrown in by the pro-choice side for the shock value. Anyone have any thoughts?

 

[Veronica_Anne]

New to the forum. My apologies if this question is in the wrong place.

Could someone please explain to me the distinction between “rape” and “incest” in the rape/incest exception argument? Presumably, no one is referring to consensual incest, so isn’t the reference to rape/incest really a reference to rape/really horrific rape? Seems to me that “incest” is thrown in by the pro-choice side for the shock value. Anyone have any thoughts?

No worries about whether your question is in the “right place.”

Sure. I can explain it to you.

Incest is one kind of rape.

Someone who is a survivor of incest does not necessarily think of that experience (or experiences) as “rape.” Anything, ANYTHING, other than the word “rape.”

Even rape of a minor is termed by the news media as “sexual abuse.” Anything, ANYTHING, other than the word “rape.”

Somehow, the technical term “rape” is considered to be more horrific than the tecthnical term “incest” when what actually did happen was rape.

Again… incest is one type of rape.

Hope my explanation helps to answer your question.

P.S. A cousin of mine (who is clinically BIF – Borderline Intellectual Functioning) was often raped by her own father (my uncle) in her own bed while her mother was innocently sleeping in her parents’ bedroom – from when she was a toddler up to when at the age of 40 – finally realizing that what was going on when her father came to her bedroom in the dark hours of the morning was somehow “wrong” – she disclosed it to her mother (my aunt). My aunt immediately kicked him out of the house and divorced him as soon as my cousin told her about it. Please pray for him (who moved to the next state and is dating a woman who has a pre-teen daughter), for my aunt (who died several years ago), and for my cousin who gave birth to a son about 8 years before she told her mother about what her own father had been doing. Nobody, including my cousin (who had intercourse ONCE with someone in addition to repeated episodes of being raped by her father) is sure who is the father of my cousin’s son. Because my cousin is BIF, she does not in any way really understand many, many things. However, she has asked me continually to tell people what had happened to her because she “is sure” (in her own words) that her disclosing these facts will help others – somewhere. Therefore, I have told y’all on this discussin board about her experience trusting that God will take this information and bless it to help others to heal being raped by a family member (which is the definition of one type of rape).

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**A resource for anyone affected in any way by abortion –

SilentNoMoreAwareness.org**

 

[iamrefreshed]

New to the forum. My apologies if this question is in the wrong place.

Could someone please explain to me the distinction between “rape” and “incest” in the rape/incest exception argument? Presumably, no one is referring to consensual incest, so isn’t the reference to rape/incest really a reference to rape/really horrific rape? Seems to me that “incest” is thrown in by the pro-choice side for the shock value. Anyone have any thoughts?

I would agree that ‘incest’ is bantered about strictly for shock value. Once you agree to murder a baby, for any reason, you have successfully de-humanized the child and left room to commit abortion on demand.

These people use the horrors of rape and incest to only further their crusade to do away with the unborn for convenience. These people have no concern for rape or incest victims. They do not run programs to assist victims. They use them. No different than the rapists!

 

[Veronica_Anne]

I would agree that ‘incest’ is bantered about strictly for shock value. Once you agree to murder a baby, for any reason, you have successfully de-humanized the child and left room to commit abortion on demand.

These people use the horrors of rape and incest to only further their crusade to do away with the unborn for convenience. These people have no concern for rape or incest victims. They do not run programs to assist victims. They use them. No different than the rapists!

See?? That’s the thing.

For the topic of abortion, the words “incest” and “rape” are both used for shock value.

Listen… I’m for “right to choose,” too – the right to choose LIFE!

It’s as the priests at EWTN say – and Fr. Frank Pavone says especially, too – that the phrase “right to choose” presumes that the word “abortion” is the end of that phrase. However, if you try to get someone to admit that THIS is the “right to choose” that they’re espousing… they insist that of course that’s what they mean.

Still… they avoid saying it out loud.

Smells like smoke…

I’m anymore getting to considering that the loudest bells being rung on the “pro abortion” side are being rung so loudly because the person ringing that bell is trying to convince themselves that what they did when they had an abortion was “of course” the right (excuse my pun) thing to do because they “had the right” to do so.

Ya know… God gave us all our free will. Of course we all have the right to choose.

And Satan knows that, too, of course. See what a liar he is?!? See how he often succeeds in taking a good thing (free will) and perverts it to his cause?

Got news for you, Satan. I choose Life.

As our Lord says = I am the Way, the Truth, and the Life.

As His disciple, I am following Him. And only Him.

Which means that I choose with whatever I say – even if a discussion is getting heated – to not “murder” or “imprison” in any way – by accusing or judging or condemning – the person who is pro-abortion. There’s ways to say things and address situations… and there’s ways not to.

Especially, I am praying for the healing of anybody at all who has ever been affected in any way by abortion.

And sharing at every opportunity the Web address for the organization – Silent No More Awareness.

SilentNoMoreAwareness.org

 

[rhhenry]

Thank you both (Veronica Anne and iamrefreshed). I agree with both of you that incest is one form of rape, which is why the term “rape and incest” seemed redundant to me (like talking about rectangles and squares, if you’ll forgive the awful analogy).

I have always had a more visceral reaction to the crime of incest, since it involves someone who is so close to the victim (as compared to stranger rape; “date” rape seems to be an “in-between” relationship) and who so profoundly abuses their position of trust and protection. So it was interesting to hear that some incest survivors prefer to call their experience anything but “rape” (cf. Veronica’s first reply). I had never thought about how the terms we use could affect one’s perception of the crime itself (I guess I always thought that the memories of the violation would be primary, no matter what we called the act).

Thanks for the insights. Veronica, I will pray for your relatives; I don’t know what is best for everyone, so my prayer will be that God’s love continue to surround them and that His Will be done.

 

[iamrefreshed]

Thank you both (Veronica Anne and iamrefreshed). I agree with both of you that incest is one form of rape, which is why the term “rape and incest” seemed redundant to me (like talking about rectangles and squares, if you’ll forgive the awful analogy).

I have always had a more visceral reaction to the crime of incest, since it involves someone who is so close to the victim (as compared to stranger rape; “date” rape seems to be an “in-between” relationship) and who so profoundly abuses their position of trust and protection. So it was interesting to hear that some incest survivors prefer to call their experience anything but “rape” (cf. Veronica’s first reply). I had never thought about how the terms we use could affect one’s perception of the crime itself (I guess I always thought that the memories of the violation would be primary, no matter what we called the act).

Thanks for the insights. Veronica, I will pray for your relatives; I don’t know what is best for everyone, so my prayer will be that God’s love continue to surround them and that His Will be done.

You will almost never hear an incest victim refer to their abuse as rape. This is because the victim has tremendous guilt. This completely unwarranted guilt was imposed upon them by their abuser. Most often a trusted relative or friend. They are made to feel everything was their fault. To call it rape would imply that they are not guilty.

My wife suffered both and has never used the two words interchangebly.