Arguments to protect unborn babies conceived in rape

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Monicathree

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Hey all,

I have a friend that I have recently started talking to again. We got on the abortion topic. I told him I am adamantly Pro-Life…and then came the expected…what about rape and incest. I told him that those situations only account for about 1% of the abortions procured and it doesn’t matter, because that baby is still a human being with the right to live.

First, he is not a Catholic, and has no idea about our view on the redemptive nature of suffering and all the rest. So, he followed and said you would rather see a child suffer and be beaten and abused and blah blah blah or become a murderer because of the dad’s criminal behaviour. Automatically, assuming that this child would have a horrible life. Of course, my first comment was,“oh so just kill the baby so he doesn’t suffer, duh?” I said we cannot predetermine what are to become of people’s life. Normal people give birth to future criminals, too…

I would just like some more logical arguments to present him with on this subject. I care about him and feel maybe I am the person that is to be the one to introduce the faith and these types of things to him. Thanks for any advice and links. God Bless!

Peace
 
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Monicathree:
So, he followed and said you would rather see a child suffer and be beaten and abused and blah blah blah or become a murderer because of the dad’s criminal behaviour. Automatically, assuming that this child would have a horrible life. Of course, my first comment was,“oh so just kill the baby so he doesn’t suffer, duh?”
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Good point.

He’d rather have “child suffer and be beaten and abused and blah blah blah” before birth than after birth. That’s says a lot.

How much time does a rapist get these days? 20 years? Yet the child conceived in rape gets the death penalty. Sad. Who’s the criminal, anyway?
 
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Monicathree:
Hey all,

I have a friend that I have recently started talking to again. We got on the abortion topic. I told him I am adamantly Pro-Life…and then came the expected…what about rape and incest. I told him that those situations only account for about 1% of the abortions procured and it doesn’t matter, because that baby is still a human being with the right to live.

First, he is not a Catholic, and has no idea about our view on the redemptive nature of suffering and all the rest. So, he followed and said you would rather see a child suffer and be beaten and abused and blah blah blah or become a murderer because of the dad’s criminal behaviour. Automatically, assuming that this child would have a horrible life. Of course, my first comment was,“oh so just kill the baby so he doesn’t suffer, duh?” I said we cannot predetermine what are to become of people’s life. Normal people give birth to future criminals, too…

I would just like some more logical arguments to present him with on this subject. I care about him and feel maybe I am the person that is to be the one to introduce the faith and these types of things to him. Thanks for any advice and links. God Bless!

Peace
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I think you did a great job answering him. I mean why punish an innocent child for the sins of the father? As for him saying that the child will lead a bad life and/or become a criminal, you were quite correct that he can not make that determination. Second, I was beaten as a child (I won’t get into detail) and yet I sure am glad I am alive rather than being dead through abortion. Third, if you take his point of view to what I believe is its logical conclusion then you would have to kill every child whose parent is an alcoholic, drug addict, from a poverty stricken area, or was abused as a child, etc. After all, children from those life styles frequently suffer (obvioiusly in the case of the ones that are physically or sexually abused) and frequently become criminals or abusers themselves. Heck, with his logic there are a whole lot of children that would need to be murdered!
 
Regardless of the circumstances, God wanted that child to come into being. Nobody has the right to take a human life except God. We don’t always understand why he permits an evil, but we do know it is because a greater good will come from it…🙂
 
I think you made a wonderful start. You simply answered his questions. I don’t think you want to make it an argument. Once you do, it seems that someone then has to win. This is very hard on a relationship. I think the most important thing for you, is to be clear about the reasons you believe what you do. The less defending and convincing you try to do, particularly early on, the more likely you will generate more questions from him. At some point you can begin asking him the questions.

In all cases your bases should on that of the two greatest commandments, love God and love others(even our enemies).

David
 
I don’t know if your friend would watch this video or not, but it is really great. “Sex has a price tag.” In the video around the middle somewhere the woman who is giving the talk to High School kids (Pam Stenzel) says. (I’m paraphrasing here for lack of an exact quote.) I’m here to thank a 15 year old girl who was raped for giving her child life and offering her up for adoption. I was that child. My father was a rapist and he is in jail. I don’t even know what nationality I am. All of my life I’ve listened to the rhetoric like abortion no, except in the case of rape and incest. So I get the point, I have no value. Doesn’t anyone love me.

It is very powerful and moving and makes you rethink your position. God bless you and pray very hard for your friend. This tape would be excellent because it also exposes the lie of contraception as well and your friend could be very shocked.

God bless.
 
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Vincent:
Good point.

He’d rather have “child suffer and be beaten and abused and blah blah blah” before birth than after birth. That’s says a lot.

How much time does a rapist get these days? 20 years? Yet the child conceived in rape gets the death penalty. Sad. Who’s the criminal, anyway?
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Nice one! 👍
 
You must definately answer this with charity and not get in a heated argument. These are some things I use when discussing this topic.
- Who created that life? The rapist? No, God did. Only God could take evil and make something good out of it. Who are we to tell God that he is not doing his job right?
- For a woman who is suffering from such a crime, it would just double her wound to have to live with the fact that she killed her own baby. Adding guilt to shame and pain never did anyone any good.
- God knows what we need. Maybe that baby is the embodiment of hope, love and courage that the woman needs to heal from the pain of her victimization. Or, perhaps that child is meant to be adopted by some good people who have been waiting a long time for a baby to love. Only God knows the answer. And we will never know if the baby is not allowed to live.
- If you ever talked to a person who was conceived as a result of rape or incest, do you think they would say, “I wish my mother had killed me”? Or do you think they would love and respect her for her decision?

Anyway, those are a few of my suggestions. Don’t know if they are good or not, but thought I’d give ya my :twocents:
 
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elgom:
I don’t know if your friend would watch this video or not, but it is really great. “Sex has a price tag.” In the video around the middle somewhere the woman who is giving the talk to High School kids (Pam Stenzel) says. (I’m paraphrasing here for lack of an exact quote.) I’m here to thank a 15 year old girl who was raped for giving her child life and offering her up for adoption. I was that child. My father was a rapist and he is in jail. I don’t even know what nationality I am. All of my life I’ve listened to the rhetoric like abortion no, except in the case of rape and incest. So I get the point, I have no value. Doesn’t anyone love me.

It is very powerful and moving and makes you rethink your position. God bless you and pray very hard for your friend. This tape would be excellent because it also exposes the lie of contraception as well and your friend could be very shocked.

God bless.
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Do you know where I could get this video? It sounds wonderful! Thanks!!
 
Here is a good site that has some good articles and testimonies on abortion. If you go to the hot topic area, there is a good article on women that have been raped/molested…

www.afterabortion.org/

Dawn
 
I wonder…

How many people have had a female dog

and that female dog was out scampering in the back yard, and along came a male and jumped her

She gets pregnant…essentially… thru an UNWANTED sex act.

How man Humans do we know have said, the pregnancy must be terminated…vs… how many after the shock of the news said…YEAH!!! PUPPIES!!!

Pleas apply the above for Incest between animals as well…

Maybe not THE “best” analogy…but there is some truth it…besides…my first coffee hasnt kicked in yet… 😉
 
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Dawn:
… good site that has , a good article on women that have been raped/molested…

www.afterabortion.org/
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This is a personal testimony at Priests For Life site from a woman conceived through rape

priestsforlife.org/testimony/jennispeltz.htm

Testimony of Jennifer Speltz

I first began to recognize that I had a story to tell when I was attending a public Junior High school in Forest Lake, MN. Quite often the abortion topic would come up with friends and on occasion comments were thrown out by abortion-minded teachers. I would always cringe a little when they would say “I don’t like abortion, I think it is wrong . . . except in cases of rape and incest,” or “we really have to keep abortion legal for cases of rape and incest.”

My mom had slowly been revealing the circumstances of my conception to me over the years and by the time I was 13, I understood and had come to grips with the reality that my father was, essentially, a rapist. Though he was 18, as was my mother, at the time of my conception, and most likely had acted out of a dare by his friends, he had violated my mother against her will.

When my mom found out she was pregnant with me, the only advice she was given was to discard the “products of conception.” She explains, better than anyone, how she was never offered support to keep me, though this is where her heart was leading her. Needless to say, I am eternally grateful that she heeded that still, small voice in her heart which told her that the life growing within had a purpose and did not merit death.

When the topic came up, throughout Junior High and High School, I would usually first try to appeal to reason saying: “Now, why don’t you like abortion? What is wrong with it?” When they would answer “Because, it’s a life” some would immediately recognize the double standard and relent. Most of the time, however, even when faced with the evident, they would still persist with emotional arguments: “You just can’t make a woman go through with a pregnancy like that.” Though it is an unjust and heart wrenching scenario to consider, it must be dealt with, and so I would tell them our story. Only once in High School did a person who heard this story turn away cold-faced. Every other person who was faced with “a face” allowed their hearts to melt at the truth of matter - God has a plan for everyone!

As my 27th birthday approaches, I am ever discovering God’s magnificent plan, not only for my life, but for every life that he calls into existence. It is crucial that every citizen realize that a person’s dignity is not founded in whether or not one is wanted, as abortion peddlers and legislators would like them to believe. A person’s dignity is founded in the reality that persons are created in the image and likeness of God. The circumstances of my conception, yours, or anyone’s does not determine quality of life.

Young people across the nation and the world are coming to recognize the double-standards of abortion rhetoric and that all of the promises of the, so called, “sexual revolution” are coming up empty. Young people are renewing the pro-life movement with an unmatched determination to herald in a new “Culture of Life.” By the grace of God my mom and I were spared of the life-long, direct agony that abortion reaps. On the other hand, when you consider Planned Parenthood’s grisly statistic that 40% of all women in the U.S. will have an abortion by the age of 40 (mothers, daughters, aunts, grandmothers, granddaughters, cousins, wives) every American citizen has been touched by the grief of abortion directly or indirectly, consciously or unconsciously. Therefore, every one of us has an obligation to stand up! I am overjoyed to be apart of the generation that WILL turn the cultural tide so that following generations will be spared of this unjust suffering.

Jenni Speltz

Director of Campus Outreach

Human Life Alliance
 
Victims and Victors, Speaking Out About Their Pregnancies, Abortions, and Children Resulting from Sexual Assault

edited by David C. Reardon, Julie Makimaa, and Amy Sobie

ISBN Number: 0-9648957-1-4

Published by: Acorn Books, PO Box 7348, Springfield, IL62791-7348, 1-888-41-ACORN

www.afterabortion.org

$11.95
 
Here’s **just part ** of this report on Abortion Complications

Please read the entire report posted at this Web page so that you will be better informed with the facts on the afteraffects of abortion. You can ask… okay… she’s been raped. So, you would ADD these griefs and pains and physical ramifications of having an abortion, too!??

Lovingly, of course… :love:

This entire report (actually, it’s in the form on an article) has footnotes for the resources cited in this article.

afterabortion.org/complic.html

THE AFTEREFFECTS OF ABORTION

It’s broken out into three sections. Here’s a little bit from each section that I’m posting here:

**ABORTION AS A PUBLIC HEALTH ISSUE **

Since the Court’s ruling in 1973, there have been many studies into the aftereffects of abortion. Their combined results paint a haunting picture of physical and psychological damage among millions of women who have undergone abortions.

**THE PHYSICAL COMPLICATIONS OF ABORTION **

National statistics on abortion show that 10% of women undergoing induced abortion suffer from immediate complications, of which one-fifth (2%) were considered major.9,11

**THE PSYCHOLOGICAL EFFECTS OF ABORTION **

Researchers investigating post-abortion reactions report only one positive emotion: relief. This emotion is understandable, especially in light of the fact that the majority of aborting women report feeling under intense pressure to "get it over with."8,23

A 5 year retrospective study in two Canadian provinces found that 25% of aborted women made visits to psychiatrists as compared to 3% of the control group.5

Women who have undergone post-abortion counseling report over 100 major reactions to abortion. Among the most frequently reported are: depression, loss of self-esteem, self-destructive behavior, sleep disorders, memory loss, sexual dysfunction, chronic problems with relationships, dramatic personality changes, anxiety attacks, guilt and remorse, difficulty grieving, increased tendency toward violence, chronic crying, difficulty concentrating, flashbacks, loss of interest in previously enjoyed activities and people, and difficulty bonding with later children.23,24

Among the most worrisome of these reactions is the increase of self-destructive behavior among aborted women. In a survey of over 100 women who had suffered from post-abortion trauma, fully 80 percent expressed feelings of “self-hatred.” In the same study, 49 percent reported drug abuse and 39 percent began to use or increased their use of alcohol. Approximately 14 percent described themselves as having become “addicted” or “alcoholic” after their abortions. In addition, 60 percent reported suicidal ideation, with 28 percent actually attempting suicide, of which half attempted suicide two or more times.
 
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Monicathree:
Hey all,

I have a friend that I have recently started talking to again. We got on the abortion topic. I told him I am adamantly Pro-Life…and then came the expected…what about rape and incest. I told him that those situations only account for about 1% of the abortions procured and it doesn’t matter, because that baby is still a human being with the right to live.

First, he is not a Catholic, and has no idea about our view on the redemptive nature of suffering and all the rest. So, he followed and said you would rather see a child suffer and be beaten and abused and blah blah blah or become a murderer because of the dad’s criminal behaviour. Automatically, assuming that this child would have a horrible life. Of course, my first comment was,“oh so just kill the baby so he doesn’t suffer, duh?” I said we cannot predetermine what are to become of people’s life. Normal people give birth to future criminals, too…

I would just like some more logical arguments to present him with on this subject. I care about him and feel maybe I am the person that is to be the one to introduce the faith and these types of things to him. Thanks for any advice and links. God Bless!

Peace
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As for discussion with your friend, please consider that due to the fact that as you say the two of you are speaking again…

please realize that you may or may not be aware that he, himself, may or may not have been involved in an abortion, himself. Perhaps someone he knows “intimately” has had an abortion, or has been raped and is now pregnant, or perhaps HE himself is the father of a child by that woman who has been aborted.

I know of two men who drove their wife/girlfriend to the “clinic” to have his son/daughter aborted… and as a man had absolutely NO “legal right” to save their own baby’s life.

If so, this would mean that he, too, is suffering from “unfobidden grief” as is the woman who has the abortion.

Bottom line… handle with kid gloves!
:crying:
 
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