Arian Foster: Answers to Atheists

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In answer to atheists, let us imgagine the following. Imagine atheists are computers with a body (metal box, wires, plastics etc), spirit (software, algorithms etc) power source (electricity). Softwares are so advanced these days that computers fly airplanes, pilot ships etc etc etc (think Robotics) and even make computers. Imagine computers questioning the existence of human beings.

Well well well!. First off, the computer’s intelligence is limited to the capacity of the software that the human being placed inside it. So it is beyond the capacity of the computer to answer the question about its origin or whether human beings exist unless the creator (human beings) included a software in the computer that indicates that human beings exist. Whether the computer does not believe that human beings exist does not change the fact that HUMAN BEINGS EXIST and that HUMAN BEINGS CREATED THE COMPUTER.

It is sad that atheists, with their limited intellectual power, (just like computers) do not accept that we human beings are created by SOMETHING beyond humanity. Computers consist of a body (box, metal wires, plastic, etc, etc), spirit (software, algorithms etc) and power (electricity); human beings conist of water, blood, spirit, intelligence and power, a different form of existence. God Consists of ??? we cannot say.

Just as it is beyond the capability of the computer to understand, by its own limited intelligence, that human beings exist without being told so by human beings, so it is beyond the capability of human beings to understand that God exists without being told or made aware of HIS existence.

Just my two cents take on this.
Well I disagree here, first off I think the analogy is flawed because
A.) The software is not the spirit of the computer it is the brain
B.) The “power” in humans is the blood and water among other things
C.) So I’m guessing in the computers in your analogy also made a lot of fake humanoids that they worship as their creator right? Because humans have made quite a lot of false gods in the view of Christianity, I mean the God of the bible wasn’t even the first one.
I'm saying this for a few reasons(the first 2 just because I like analogies and want them to be accurate as possible) But the last one is just to show that the analogy is flawed because people can imagine a creator, I understand the concept of a creator I just think there is no evidence for it. It's not that the idea of a God is to foreign to me to understand I just don't think it has any evidence.
 
Thank you Mr. Atheist for the links. Although I was hoping for a Christian slant, your links were helpful
I did notice on the Christian website that their critique of “multi universe” theory, lacking evidence is not the same standard applied to God?
Regarding matters of faith it is important to respect “faith”.
 
Thank you Mr. Atheist for the links. Although I was hoping for a Christian slant, your links were helpful
I did notice on the Christian website that their critique of “multi universe” theory, lacking evidence is not the same standard applied to God?
Regarding matters of faith it is important to respect “faith”.
Truth be told I might not be the best person to ask for websites regarding good christian evidence so if anyone sees this and can put up a link to a good website that would be great. In regards to the last statement I don’t necessarily agree with that I don’t think certain things deserve a level of respect just because, especially faith.
 
Hello Mr. Atheist, let me clarify my last comment. It is the act of faith that is deserving of respect, not the beliefs held within.
 
So I’m not sure if any of you have heard, but Houston Texans football player Arian Foster recently declared that he didn’t believe in God. This is not what bothered me. What bothered me was reading the story online, and the comment thread attached to it. I am not a member to the site so I couldn’t reply, but it just broke my heart seeing all the atheists attacking Christians. However, they were asking very good and tough questions. I tried to answer them myself, but I was wondering if you could let me know if these answers are acceptable.

In answer to atheists, let us imgagine the following. Imagine atheists are computers with a body (metal box, wires, plastics etc), spirit (software, algorithms etc) power source (electricity). Softwares are so advanced these days that computers fly airplanes, pilot ships etc etc etc (think Robotics) and even make computers. Imagine computers questioning the existence of human beings.

Well well well!. First off, the computer’s intelligence is limited to the capacity of the software that the human being placed inside it. So it is beyond the capacity of the computer to answer the question about its origin or whether human beings exist unless the creator (human beings) included a software in the computer that indicates that human beings exist. Whether the computer does not believe that human beings exist does not change the fact that HUMAN BEINGS EXIST and that HUMAN BEINGS CREATED THE COMPUTER.

It is sad that atheists, with their limited intellectual power, (just like computers) do not accept that we human beings are created by SOMETHING beyond humanity. Computers consist of a body (box, metal wires, plastic, etc, etc), spirit (software, algorithms etc) and power (electricity); human beings conist of water, blood, spirit, intelligence and power, a different form of existence. God Consists of ??? we cannot say.

Just as it is beyond the capability of the computer to understand, by its own limited intelligence, that human beings exist without being told so by human beings, so it is beyond the capability of human beings to understand that God exists without being told or made aware of HIS existence.

Just my two cents take on this.
This is an interesting analogy…yet it seemingly overlooks one small aspect: if the atheist seems somewhat limited in his ability to imagine God due to his limited software, how is the theist not only able to so do, but also to describe in great creative detail seemingly every facet of His personality? Is it not somewhat strange that some computers appear to have limited software while others apparently runneth over…?

Yet I did enjoy the analogy because it is possible to conceded it might have some merit…for a creator being positively could have designed all in such a way…yet why would this same being be positively obsessed with this tiny mote in His programming discovering and believing in Him? What sort of scientific experiment is such a creative being undertaking that any of this might prove meaningful…?

For it cannot be that He does not know the end result, for it is claimed that He is all-knowing. Further it cannot be because He yearns for a relationship with mankind because the disparity in mental capacity and abilities would seemingly appear so great as to be somewhat akin to a botanist attempting a deep and lasting friendship with a favored shrub…and, finally, it cannot be as though a saved mankind might serve a useful purpose…for what would a being of infinite might and intellect truly do with a subservient subset ready to placate Him at every turn even to the level of refusing to question Him in any sense? Does He not allegedly already have angels for this supposed purpose? What will He do with mankind for all eternity? Is it to be conceived that an infinite intellect might never be bored with a static relationship?

In history where might one typically find such types of relationships in which obedience of an entire subset towards an arbitrary ruler might be considered paramount? Obedience that, if denied, might lead to certain pain, torment and/or death?
  1. individuals training for the military…?
  2. an entire nation under the control of a dictator…?
  3. domesticated animals being fattened for later consumption…?
Should not a being comprised entirely of love be self-evident? Should not any hint of His presence be sufficient to draw a desperately yearning mankind?

Why then the apparent need for ultimatums…?
 
Hello Mr. Atheist, let me clarify my last comment. It is the act of faith that is deserving of respect, not the beliefs held within.
I stand by what I said, I don’t think an act of faith is inherently good. Truthfully I think faith can be harmful in situations, now I don’t mean physically harmful but it sets a bad trend of belief without evidence.
 
Your problem here is assuming that naturalism cannot explain reason. I could be wrong but I don’t remember you ever giving a solid reason as to why reason cannot arise from the process of our brain. You said that atoms don’t work on reason but on physics but that doesn’t have anything to do with our brains creating reason. Although I don’t think this is going to get a fruitful discussion because neither of us are brain surgeons or expert theologians and this argument has probably gone past our area of knowledge. If you want you can keep making points(which you have been doing very well by the way) but I think this is where we must simply agree to disagree.
First off, thanks for the discussion! I think it’s been a good one, and am happy to agree to disagree – after one last post (haha). You pointed out that I hadn’t really provided a solid argument to doubt that material processes could give rise to reason. I think it’s only fitting that my final post be an attempt to do so.
According to Naturalism (or, more strictly speaking, materialism) everything in the universe is made up of nothing more than mindless matter – like protons, neutrons, and electrons. These particles behave, not according to the laws of logic, but according to the laws of physics. They lack intentionality, or ‘aboutness’. Physics, at its most basic level, makes no reference to purposes or logic whatsoever. To say that one bit of matter can be true (or false) about another bit of matter seems to me to be nonsensical. But what does this have to do with the relationship between our thoughts (as a psychological event) and our brains?
A boulder rolls down a hill due to nothing more than the forces acting upon it, and it can no more alter its trajectory to avoid hitting someone as a person falling from a building can ignore gravity. Now, if Naturalism is true, than our brains are nothing more than mere mindless matter, no different than the boulder rolling down the hill. It’s true that our brains are much more complex than a boulder, and are made up of more complicated molecules than a hunk of granite, but nevertheless, both the boulder and our brains are made up of nothing more than atoms. And atoms can behave only according to the laws of physics, not the laws of logic. If that’s true, than our thoughts (since they, according to Naturalism, supervene exclusively upon the brain) are nothing more than the motion of atoms, which behave according to the laws of physics. If that’s true, then, just as rock rolling down a hill cannot alter its trajectory to avoid killing a person, the atoms in the brains that give rise to our thoughts cannot alter their behavior to reach truth or avoid falsity. As Lewis points out, this leaves no room for grounds (or logic) to determine what we believe; “how could such a trifle as lack of logical grounds prevent the belief’s occurrence, or how could the existence of grounds promote it”? It seems to me as though Naturalism leaves no room for our thoughts to be determined by grounds, or logic, or ‘the truth known’, and are merely the result of blind causality and mindless physics. A person holds a belief, not because they see that it is true, but purely because the motion of the atoms in their brains determined that the belief would be formed, regardless of the belief’s actual truth. This, to me, kills reason.

Anyway, this, I think, is the best summation I can provide of the argument in such a short span and with my admittedly amateurish knowledge.

It was good talking to you, Helpful Atheist - good luck with school!
 
First off, thanks for the discussion! I think it’s been a good one, and am happy to agree to disagree – after one last post (haha). You pointed out that I hadn’t really provided a solid argument to doubt that material processes could give rise to reason. I think it’s only fitting that my final post be an attempt to do so.
According to Naturalism (or, more strictly speaking, materialism) everything in the universe is made up of nothing more than mindless matter – like protons, neutrons, and electrons. These particles behave, not according to the laws of logic, but according to the laws of physics. They lack intentionality, or ‘aboutness’. Physics, at its most basic level, makes no reference to purposes or logic whatsoever. To say that one bit of matter can be true (or false) about another bit of matter seems to me to be nonsensical. But what does this have to do with the relationship between our thoughts (as a psychological event) and our brains?
A boulder rolls down a hill due to nothing more than the forces acting upon it, and it can no more alter its trajectory to avoid hitting someone as a person falling from a building can ignore gravity. Now, if Naturalism is true, than our brains are nothing more than mere mindless matter, no different than the boulder rolling down the hill. It’s true that our brains are much more complex than a boulder, and are made up of more complicated molecules than a hunk of granite, but nevertheless, both the boulder and our brains are made up of nothing more than atoms. And atoms can behave only according to the laws of physics, not the laws of logic. If that’s true, than our thoughts (since they, according to Naturalism, supervene exclusively upon the brain) are nothing more than the motion of atoms, which behave according to the laws of physics. If that’s true, then, just as rock rolling down a hill cannot alter its trajectory to avoid killing a person, the atoms in the brains that give rise to our thoughts cannot alter their behavior to reach truth or avoid falsity. As Lewis points out, this leaves no room for grounds (or logic) to determine what we believe; “how could such a trifle as lack of logical grounds prevent the belief’s occurrence, or how could the existence of grounds promote it”? It seems to me as though Naturalism leaves no room for our thoughts to be determined by grounds, or logic, or ‘the truth known’, and are merely the result of blind causality and mindless physics. A person holds a belief, not because they see that it is true, but purely because the motion of the atoms in their brains determined that the belief would be formed, regardless of the belief’s actual truth. This, to me, kills reason.

Anyway, this, I think, is the best summation I can provide of the argument in such a short span and with my admittedly amateurish knowledge.

It was good talking to you, Helpful Atheist - good luck with school!
Well I have a rebuttal to this but I don’t think it would really further the dialogue so let’s end it here. Great post wonderfully argumented, and I look forward into running into you again somewhere else on this site.
 
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