Arianism & Modernism heresy thought

[NorthTexan88]

**Disclaimer, this is a mix of a rant/question…and I am not bashing the Church or Magesterium:thumbsup:

I’ve been reading a lot of Church history lately, and about the Arian heresy in particular.
As far as I can tell, the only other time that has been worse doctrinally [not the Church herself but the people] is the time period we live in now. I think that when history looks back, this time period will be called the Modernism period. Like the Arian heresy, a lot of our bishops espouse modernist tendencies, this is not new news as you can read about it in several places [Cardinal Danieels for example]. However, this does NOT mean that the Church teaches error.

Finally on to my question. The main Arian heresy lasted for about 100 years and then was stomped down. Do you think this is what will happen with Modernism? to my knowledge, which most certainly could be very wrong, no Pope since Pius X has condemned modernism, and certainly not any of the recent Popes I am aware of. It seems to me the Church is very slowly started to move out of modernism, would you agree?

 

[livingwordunity]

**Disclaimer, this is a mix of a rant/question…and I am not bashing the Church or Magesterium:thumbsup:

I’ve been reading a lot of Church history lately, and about the Arian heresy in particular.
As far as I can tell, the only other time that has been worse doctrinally [not the Church herself but the people] is the time period we live in now. I think that when history looks back, this time period will be called the Modernism period. Like the Arian heresy, a lot of our bishops espouse modernist tendencies, this is not new news as you can read about it in several places [Cardinal Danieels for example]. However, this does NOT mean that the Church teaches error.

Finally on to my question. The main Arian heresy lasted for about 100 years and then was stomped down. Do you think this is what will happen with Modernism? to my knowledge, which most certainly could be very wrong, no Pope since Pius X has condemned modernism, and certainly not any of the recent Popes I am aware of. It seems to me the Church is very slowly started to move out of modernism, would you agree?

I think we are in a much worse situation than in the days of Arianism since even many Christians are being deceived not just with theology but with morality. The whole world, with the encouragement of many Christians, is turning into one big Sodom and Gomorrah. The Popes and bishops decry it, but the people in general don’t listen. Truth is considered hate speech, and most people want to be be told lies. That’s why I believe that it will probably take Jesus’ Second Coming to stomp this out.

 

[grannymh]

**Disclaimer, this is a mix of a rant/question…and I am not bashing the Church or Magesterium:thumbsup:

I’ve been reading a lot of Church history lately, and about the Arian heresy in particular.
As far as I can tell, the only other time that has been worse doctrinally [not the Church herself but the people] is the time period we live in now. I think that when history looks back, this time period will be called the Modernism period. Like the Arian heresy, a lot of our bishops espouse modernist tendencies, this is not new news as you can read about it in several places [Cardinal Danieels for example]. However, this does NOT mean that the Church teaches error.

Finally on to my question. The main Arian heresy lasted for about 100 years and then was stomped down. Do you think this is what will happen with Modernism? to my knowledge, which most certainly could be very wrong, no Pope since Pius X has condemned modernism, and certainly not any of the recent Popes I am aware of. It seems to me the Church is very slowly started to move out of modernism, would you agree?

Arianism, outside of our One, Holy, Catholic, and Apostolic Church, is alive and well. And Modernism is increasing within our Church.

The above is my own personal observation; therefore, it may be either correct or incorrect.

 

[Lancer]

The Church has reached an incredible peak…unprecedented…in the fullness and clarity of its theological exposition on all matters of Faith and all matters of Morality…its depth and breadth in Scripture, Tradition and Magisterial teachings…with all the “high tech” tools and communication tools of the Modern era…is absolutely the Holy Spirit’s power working par excellence…but its voice and prestige an credibility…is at an incredible all time low… IMHO…meaning it is so openly attacked…ridiculed…mocked…especially its leaders, from Christ himself and the Blessed Virgin Mary, to the Pope, bishops and priests, deacons, religious and laity…the Church is fair game for outrageous and vicious attacks.

Why?..we Catholics are suffering an era of…not Modernism…but an era of crisis of saints and holiness…in the laity…in the pews…which make up the “bulk” of the Body of Christ. The priest scandal and the bishops’ ineptitude…bad for sure…cost a lot in bad publicity…cost a lot in legal fees…and damaged all those young boys who were violated…beyond words. But again, the clergy numbers are minuscule…and even the ones who are not orthodox…or loopy theologians and morality relativists…or liturgy clowns…we laity can overcome that in a heartbeat…The Catechism…Catholic EWTN and Radio…and blogs and etc…vote with our feet/money…go to a solid Catholic Parish…so we laity…we in the pews…we have the “holiness horsepower” in our numbers and in our array of assets/tools available to all of us. We just need to get with it…especially me…Catholic all my life…and I ain’t even close…with any constancy.

So Catholics in the pews…the laity…who accept…tinker with or dabble in heresy…heretical-“isms”–whether Pelagianism or Arianism “flavors”…or Gnostic-New Age pablum…or Catholics who support/partake/foster…the Dictatorship of Relativism …progressive socialism and the Culture of Death politics/governance…all condemned by Popes (Leo XIII and forward) and the Magisterium…we will have little-to-no-excuse at judgment.

All through the 2000+ years of the Church history…Popes have answered your question the same way…they punch the “start” button on their wristwatch…and say…I don’t know when this era will end…but it will wind up in the dustbin of history…and have left a trail of damned souls and a trail of blood and tears…just like all the other eras that reject Christ and His Church…and when it passes…the Catholic Church will still be standing and preaching the Good News…the Gospel of Our Lord Jesus Christ.

Bottom Line: excuses of invincible ignorance on the day of each of our Particular Judgment…in front of the Just Judge…will be hard cases to plead and almost impossible to win!..IMHO. Remembering the event of Jesus looking for something to eat from the fig tree that had produced no fruit…is really scary.

Matthew 21:18-19
Revised Standard Version Catholic Edition (RSV-CE)

18 In the morning, as he was returning to the city, he was hungry.19 And seeing a fig tree by the wayside he went to it, and found nothing on it but leaves only. And he said to it, “May no fruit ever come from you again!” And the fig tree withered at once

Pax Christi

 

[NorthTexan88]

The Church has reached an incredible peak…unprecedented…in the fullness and clarity of its theological exposition on all matters of Faith and all matters of Morality…its depth and breadth in Scripture, Tradition and Magisterial teachings…with all the “high tech” tools and communication tools of the Modern era…is absolutely the Holy Spirit’s power working par excellence…but its voice and prestige an credibility…is at an incredible all time low… IMHO…meaning it is so openly attacked…ridiculed…mocked…especially its leaders, from Christ himself and the Blessed Virgin Mary, to the Pope, bishops and priests, deacons, religious and laity…the Church is fair game for outrageous and vicious attacks.

Why?..we Catholics are suffering an era of…not Modernism…but an era of crisis of saints and holiness…in the laity…in the pews…which make up the “bulk” of the Body of Christ. The priest scandal and the bishops’ ineptitude…bad for sure…cost a lot in bad publicity…cost a lot in legal fees…and damaged all those young boys who were violated…beyond words. But again, the clergy numbers are minuscule…and even the ones who are not orthodox…or loopy theologians and morality relativists…or liturgy clowns…we laity can overcome that in a heartbeat…The Catechism…Catholic EWTN and Radio…and blogs and etc…vote with our feet/money…go to a solid Catholic Parish…so we laity…we in the pews…we have the “holiness horsepower” in our numbers and in our array of assets/tools available to all of us. We just need to get with it…especially me…Catholic all my life…and I ain’t even close…with any constancy.

So Catholics in the pews…the laity…who accept…tinker with or dabble in heresy…heretical-“isms”–whether Pelagianism or Arianism “flavors”…or Gnostic-New Age pablum…or Catholics who support/partake/foster…the Dictatorship of Relativism …progressive socialism and the Culture of Death politics/governance…all condemned by Popes (Leo XIII and forward) and the Magisterium…we will have little-to-no-excuse at judgment.

All through the 2000+ years of the Church history…Popes have answered your question the same way…they punch the “start” button on their wristwatch…and say…I don’t know when this era will end…but it will wind up in the dustbin of history…and have left a trail of damned souls and a trail of blood and tears…just like all the other eras that reject Christ and His Church…and when it passes…the Catholic Church will still be standing and preaching the Good News…the Gospel of Our Lord Jesus Christ.

Bottom Line: excuses of invincible ignorance on the day of each of our Particular Judgment…in front of the Just Judge…will be hard cases to plead and almost impossible to win!..IMHO. Remembering the event of Jesus looking for something to eat from the fig tree that had produced no fruit…is really scary.

​

Pax Christi

Awesome points! I would say however, that Modernism is a by-product of the crisis of faith.
I actually read an article a couple of months ago by Dr. Taylor Marshall about the new “Great Catholic Exodus”, and it basically talks about what you are saying in talking with your feet. It goes on to talk about the growth in the Latin Mass by young couples.
I recently did just this. The territorial parish I belong to has an open forum where you can talk to the priest. His refusal to allow for the kneeling of communion really got me, so I politely stated that I would be moving my parish membership to another parish. If you are not being fed spiritually, you need to leave, or risk dying inside, this is what was happening to me. This is actually how I started thinking about modernism, as this particular priest espouses some of these views.

 

[Elizabeth502]

This:

I think we are in a much worse situation than in the days of Arianism since even many Christians are being deceived not just with theology but with morality. The whole world, with the encouragement of many Christians, is turning into one big Sodom and Gomorrah. The Popes and bishops decry it, but the people in general don’t listen. Truth is considered hate speech, and most people want to be be told lies. That’s why I believe that it will probably take Jesus’ Second Coming to stomp this out.

and:

And Modernism is increasing within our Church.

Yep.

I would say however, that Modernism is a by-product of the crisis of faith.

Very much so. Faith was once deliberately cultivated, assumed by the layperson to be his responsibility to nurture, pray for as a theological virtue, and meet that grace when gifted with it.

Now, faith is seen as useless without the individual editing the Deposit of Faith with private “authority” of his own – and that is precisely the toxicity of modernism. The Faith does not “make sense” within the structure of modernistic thought, so the entire exercise in using the latter to measure the former is flawed on its face.