Arkansas Mom Prepares for Birth of 17th Child

[aurora77]

I’ve seen the Duggars on TV a couple of times and they seem like a neat family. The matchy names thing for the kids isn’t to my taste, but they can name their children however they wish! I think it’s wonderful that they’ve trusted God with their fertility and from what I’ve seen they are a good example of a good Christian family.

 

[paradoxy]

I haven’t found it yet, but I’m not good at finding things in the Catechism. I bet if you ask in the Apologetics forum someone will find it. But I did find a link for you. It’s about cloning, but the same idea applies.

roman-catholic.com/Roman/Articles/Cloning1.htm

I wouldn’t agree that the same idea applies here. God allows immoral acts, like cloning, IVF, etc., to produce children, and that is His permissive will. Man is allowed to manipulate nature. God often makes something good out our sins - David’s adultery eventually produced St. Joseph. This does not make these immoral acts any less immoral.

Two married people having sex and trusting God about the consequences, even if they have a child every year or so, is NEVER an immoral act. Children happen here according to God’s perfect will.

The good consequences of both the intrinsically immoral and intrinsically moral acts are children.

 

[BasBleu]

Now there was another large family featured on one of those channels (TLC or ???) who had one girl and enough boys to have their own baseball team that played other teams. The show was mostly about the big game they did for the town. I can not find them anywhere on the internet but I do remember them having their own church and holding their services in their home and over the internet. The two oldest boys had outside jobs as court reporters like dad but still lived at home. The third oldest boy thought it was “weird” that his brothers didn’t even have girlfriends yet . Anyone else remember this family and their name? They seemed far more isolationists than the Duggars (I will admit that tv can edit things in such a way as to make everything seem worse than it really is).

Oh, and some of what I am hearing in this thread sounds more like this family than the Duggars.

Brenda V.

Ah, yes. That would be the Arndt Family: famteam.com/

As someone else mentioned, they were featured on the TLC series, “Kids by the Dozen” along with the Heppner and Jeub families.

 

[AnnaTherese]

I wouldn’t agree that the same idea applies here. God allows immoral acts, like cloning, IVF, etc., to produce children, and that is His permissive will. Man is allowed to manipulate nature. God often makes something good out our sins - David’s adultery eventually produced St. Joseph. This does not make these immoral acts any less immoral.

Two married people having sex and trusting God about the consequences, even if they have a child every year or so, is NEVER an immoral act. Children happen here according to God’s perfect will.

The good consequences of both the intrinsically immoral and intrinsically moral acts are children.

I didn’t say it was immoral for married couples to have a child every year. I happen to think it’s rather imprudent, but that most people do so because they don’t realize what a serious effect it has on the newborn’s health and on the mother’s health (you can’t give what you don’t have, and the mother doesn’t have the nutrients she needs to pass on to that baby so early on) and the attachment needs of the previous child, which will not be met as they should be if another child comes along too soon. That’s different from saying it’s intrinsically wrong. Parents have to exercise prudential judgement and it is their right and obligationto do this however they see fit. But I often get the impression that many folks don’t give it a second thought. They think it’s wrong not to have a baby right away. That they are somehow sinning if they actually gasp plan a baby. You can do something that is not God’s will and do it without sin. You can feel called to the priesthood and reject that calling, yet you do it without sin, because God does not require it of you. It’s a bad choice, but it’s your choice. You won’t be punished for it, you just won’t be as blessed as you might otherwise be if you had followed His call. You can feel called to fast in a certain way and reject that call, and you do it without sin. You can feel called to have another baby and reject that calling and you do it without sin. Or you can feel (or be called without feeling it) not to have a baby and have a baby anyway because you want to. Maybe your spouse is in college and finances are really slim—to slim, but you just can’t discipline yourself to wait, and you get pregnant. You do not sin in doing so. I happen to think that it’s entirely possible that it IS God’s will for me to be pregnant right now, but that because of past decisions I’ve made about my health, and past decisions that my husband has made about his health, we are reaping the consequences of those decisions and thus we are having difficulty. God wants to give us a baby but He wants to awaken us to take some responsibility for our health, so that we can pass that health on to the next child. (Don’t know that for certain, but it’s a theory I have). Or perhaps he wants to use this disappointing time to help us work on our marriage. Maybe infertility is just what we need to get us thinking about where our marriage is going. You see what I mean? God wills, but He respects our choice in the matter, too.

But I would disagree if you are saying that, for instance, an unmarried girl becoming pregnant is a result of God’s perfect will. I think that is an example of His permissive will. He always acknowledges our free will. He allows us to decide things and to deal with the consequences of those decisions. He knows that that girl is going to have to come to grips with the results of her decision, He knows that she might choose to have an abortion, because she is free to do that. But He also knows that she might respond to His grace and repent, and end up with a converted heart in the end. I don’t think it’s right to say that God willed for her to have a baby. I think it’s more right to say that His perfect will was, perhaps, for her to eventually marry at the proper time and have a different baby at a different time. But He allowed her to have a baby this time because He knew that the cross she would have to carry might bring about blessing.

 

[AnnaTherese]

Rob_s_Wife:
Rob’s Wife,
I don’t disagree with anything you said, so again, I think you misunderstand me. I am certainly not pointing finger at you. I don’t know you. As for the history of spacing, well, just do your homework on that one. I’ve already done mine. Weston A Price has written a wonderful book called Nutrition and Physical Degeneration where he went around all over the world studying various non-industrialized communities and the state of their health, and one of the things he discovered was that the norm of child spacing was about 3-4 years. I think that would be the norm for us too if our diets were better than they are and if our lifestyles were more natural. I never said that NFP is the natural and normal way of doing things or that in the history of mankind everyone used NFP. I was trying to say that in the history of mankind, before the modern age, spacing was usually further apart than it is now, for health and lifestyle reasons.

I want to draw a distinction between “using NFP” and “postponing pregnancy”. One uses NFP for many reasons, one of which might be to postpone pregnancy. But other reasons include but are not limited to: being able to predict when your period will start, keeping an eye on your thyroid, testing the results of any supplements or dietary changes you might decide to try to see if they have an effect on your fertility or regularity (because if they do, you can probably assume they are having a beneficial effect on your general health), helping you to conceive, keeping an eye on a newly conceived child to be sure that all is well, predicting a due date, keeping records just in case you ever need to postpone a pregnancy, so you’ll have established the habit already and you’ll have the necessary information at your fingertips. Some of the NFP Phase I rules require 12 or so months of experience. It would be nice if when you decided that you had to postpone a pregnancy that you could begin doing so right away, and not have to relearn all the complicated rules and build up that repertoire of information so you don’t have to abstain so much. NFP is a modern blessing. Before NFP if you wanted to space babies, you had to simply abstain, all the time. Now we are blessed to know more about how our bodies work, and we can make decisions based on that information, and therefore we can abstain much less. I think it’s a mistake (not a sin, mind you, but a mistake) to have access to NFP and not practice it regularly, because there are so many blessings that flow from its use.

You said: “Babies are not like ice-cream cones. Whether I make a cone for my kid or not is completely up to me and my free will. A baby, a soul, is impossible to make without the hand of God involved.”

A soul is infinitely more special than an ice cream cone. It was only an analogy, and not to be compared strictly to a human being. But, technically, you really can’t make that ice cream cone without God’s help either. He gave you your body, which you use to make it. He gave you the intelligence you needed in order to put it together. He gave you the free will to decide whether or not to give it to the child. So it is incorrect to say that doing it is all up to you. We do nothing without the hand of God.

You said: “Here’s the deal. Although the church permits you the use of NFP for serious personal reasons of your own discernment, the church does not say anyone is ever required to give NFP a single thought whatsoever. In the natural order of a healthy marriage/woman, it’s not neccessary or required to give postponing children any thought at all other than to a willing acceptance of any arrivals.”

Again, what the Church is permitting is postponing pregnancy, not NFP in the technical sense for the reasons I gave above. Whether or not you postpone pregnancy, whether or not you use NFP specifically, we are all obligated to consider the consequences of adding a new member to the family and praying over it to see if it really is the will of God. John Paul II said as much. We are all called to be responsible with the gift of life. Did you ever hear that story about Padre Pio, about the woman who went to him for confession (you know how he was supposed to be able to read souls) and told him she had x number of kids (very large family) and wanted another one. He told her to stop because her children were “rotting in hell because of you!” She wasn’t parenting well. She was neglecting her responsibilities. She was just having babies, thinking God wanted her to have babies no matter what, and not at all considering the cost. It was irresponsible, and he called her on it. She had good intentions, but she erred. We all do from time to time.

 

[NMJenny]

Agreed! I only have three and I do it all the time. One time I called my oldest by the other two girls’ names before I finally used her name…we were on the way into the grocery store and very loudly, she said, “Mommy…why don’t you know my name??” And I just said, “Well, Mommy has three beautiful girls with beautiful names and I like to hear them all…” The older lady passing us by just chuckled…

My youngest swears that I called her by the dog’s name once!! I just told her “honey, when you have six kids in eleven years, things like that are going to happen”…

 

[stadre]

My youngest swears that I called her by the dog’s name once!! I just told her “honey, when you have six kids in eleven years, things like that are going to happen”…

I think it’s funny when my grandparents go through children, children-in-law, grandchildren, and finally a list of great-grandchildren before getting to my DD!!!

 

[PattyPryor]

annatherese-

I am actually really hurt by some of your comments. You act like children are some game to play around with or something you can just plan and predict at will.

personally I don’t see how you can judge Michelle and Jim Bob. Have you called them yet? I’m sure they could explain why they did the things they did at the times they did it.

My friends mom was on birth control and the 2 times she was on it she got pregnet. interesting…

I have to be honest in so many way I wonder why children are born in the situations they are. from britney to myself. I do know that I have something to give this world and thats why I am here.

You talk so man about the duggars and you don’t even know them. I wish you could see what I see when I am actually with them.

Are you Catholic? I’m sure you are. Do you not believe everyoe is a child of God? that everyone is here because God willed it?

I’m sorry you don’t like the duggars or respect them but honestly going back and forth about how horrible it is that they are having 17 and the spacing of the children is bad is just wasted energy.

Michelle will Have Jennifer Danielle this month and she will not be unloved or feel like her siblings raised her. I’m sorry you feel this way but you really have no clue what you are talking about when it comes to this family.

I pray that you find your own journey and leave the Duggars to theirs… they would do the same for you

:getholy: :heaven: :bible1: :twocents:

 

[mesquite_magic]

I’d just like to say, “God bless them”. I haven’t watched their show, but I’ve seen them on the morning news programs. They seem like a very nice family. The kids looked happy, healthy, and well cared for. They also seemed very respectful and loving. Best of luck with their new baby.

Kim

 

[Rob_s_Wife]

I didn’t say it was immoral for married couples to have a child every year. I happen to think it’s rather imprudent, but that most people do so because they don’t realize what a serious effect it has on the newborn’s health and on the mother’s health (you can’t give what you don’t have, and the mother doesn’t have the nutrients she needs to pass on to that baby so early on) and the attachment needs of the previous child, which will not be met as they should be if another child comes along too soon. That’s different from saying it’s intrinsically wrong.
Good heavens woman are you reading your own words? Yeah, it’s not intrinsically wrong. They’re just too stupid and thoughtless to know better or they’d agree with you? I’ll have you know every one of my dc are healthy vibrant loving children and my ob says I’m in better health now than most 20 year olds with their first baby. And you know what? If any one of my dc were born unhealthy, I’d love them just the same and be just as grateful for them. How cruel your words must be to mothers who have that 3rd or 4th baby that isn’t as perfect to the world as they are to the parents.

Parents have to exercise prudential judgement and it is their right and obligationto do this however they see fit.
It is my prudential judgement that God knows more about when life should and shoudn’t be than me or you.

But I often get the impression that many folks don’t give it a second thought.
And they don’t have to. They placed this in God’s hands and the worry is no longer there for them. For most, it has taken years to find that peace in Him.
They think it’s wrong not to have a baby right away.
**The issue is not to try to get pregnant. Neither is it to avoid getting pregnant. For us, it is simply living the marriage as God intented it. **
That they are somehow sinning if they actually gasp plan a baby.
**YOU can’t plan anything when it comes to the making of a soul. Ask the many mothers who have lost a baby or are infertile. The most you can ever hope to “plan” is to either say “yes, lord I accept your will” or “no thanks God, it doesn’t seem prudent tonight”. **

**God gave us free will and sometimes, most of the time, it’s not a sin to use it. We can reject His will for us. As for me and my house, we will be ready to accept HIS will. Maybe nervously at times I’ll honestly admit - but ready none the less. **

You see what I mean? God wills, but He respects our choice in the matter, too.
**Nope. I don’t think He respects it. I think he is saddened by it. What father wouldn’t feel sorrow if the gifts crafted with so much care were rejected because they didn’t fit into his dc’s plans or lifestyle? Would/could/should the same loving father force the gift on the chidlren? Maybe, but he doesn’t. No. He simply, rather sad and dejectedly, takes the gift back home and hopes the next gift is better received. I don’t think that’s respect. I think it’s heartbreaking. **

But I would disagree if you are saying that, for instance, an unmarried girl becoming pregnant is a result of God’s perfect will. I think that is an example of His permissive will.
No it isn’t. Not one bit. God is not permissive in the creation of a soul - His will is actively involved and required to make it happen. Unless of course, you would care to state that the conception of the christ child was not the active will of God, but merely his permissiveness?

I don’t think it’s right to say that God willed for her to have a baby.
I don’t think it’s right to think God doesn’t have an active hand and will when it comes to the creation of souls. Is he making a second class order of souls?!

**God knew that soul before it was even conceived in the womb and that doesn’t strike me as willy-nilly premissive thing at the whim of humans. It strikes me as God had a will and a plan for that soul and willed that girl to be a part of it. **

Rob’s Wife,
I don’t disagree with anything you said, so again, I think you misunderstand me. I am certainly not pointing finger at you. I don’t know you.
I’d love to think I misunderstand you, but I don’t. I’m reading you loud and clear.

As for the history of spacing, well, just do your homework on that one. I’ve already done mine.
Then do some more.

 

[Rob_s_Wife]

he went around all over the world studying various non-industrialized communities and the state of their health, and one of the things he discovered was that the norm of child spacing was about 3-4 years. I think that would be the norm for us too if our diets were better than they are and if our lifestyles were more natural.
**Well yeah. I mean if I ate diseased water and had over 60% of my children die before the age of 5 and 80% die by age 3, and lived off fickle mother earth’s scraps when it’s not being torn apart by war and famine, bf my dc until they are 4, not because I want to but because it’s the only danged thing to offer them, and die by the time I’m 50 (if lucky) then I guess I could manage to have my dc 3 - 4 years apart too. Not counting m/c’s, stillborns, and dead children in between. Oh for the good ol’ days of living in a 3rd world country. **

And the “norm” was not 3 - 4 years. The average was 3 years. Which means there were plenty who were closer to a baby a year to a year and half. I’d bet pocket change the median was between 20 and 26 months apart.

I never said that NFP is the natural and normal way of doing things or that in the history of mankind everyone used NFP. I was trying to say that in the history of mankind, before the modern age, spacing was usually further apart than it is now, for health and lifestyle reasons.
**No, it wasn’t. Even if I could buy that bit, it certainly wouldn’t have been for health and lifestyle reasons. It would have been more a happen chance than anything at all. Very few couples decided to completely abstain on purpose to space children. They have abstained simple because they couldn’t be together (husband at sea for example), but it was hardly for health and lifestyle reasons. **

I want to draw a distinction between “using NFP” and “postponing pregnancy”.
I don’t because YOU were the one talking about how it’s important to space children and postpone pregnancies.

I think it’s a mistake (not a sin, mind you, but a mistake) to have access to NFP and not practice it regularly, because there are so many blessings that flow from its use.
That’s your opinion and you’re welcome to it. Should I ever be in such serious straits as to need it, we’re fine with abstaining as long as we feel neccessary. If it’s that serious to us, s*x will likely be the last thing on our minds anyhow.

, technically, you really can’t make that ice cream cone without God’s help either. So it is incorrect to say that doing it is all up to you. We do nothing without the hand of God.
**Yes. I know God created me. He created me with free will. He create me to serve Him. And if God wants me to make Him an ice cream cone I sure the heck aren’t going to tell Him it’s not convienient for me at this time. **

we are all obligated to consider the consequences of adding a new member to the family and praying over it to see if it really is the will of God.
No we’re not. If you’re married, then you are free to welcome any child God will’s you to have.
John Paul II said as much.
No, he said we can take those things into consideration. He did not say we MUST do so. Not once in Church history has the church ever said a marriage couple is wrong to accept a child. Not once.

I deleted your supposed Padre Pio story because it was insulting and I highly doubt it’s authenticity. If a mother isn’t parenting well, that’s a true shame that has nothing to do with how many dc she has, but it doesn’t condemn her children to hell.

Otherwise, I’m a goner for sure. I’ll admit to not being near a perfect or saintly mother, but I sure don’t think my kids are going to hell because of my parenting.

John Paul II also said the greatest gift any parent could give their children is a sibling!

We are all called to be responsible with the gift of life.
**Yeah, well it’s mighty hard to claim not allowing a life is being responsible for it. Seems more like a refusal to become responsible for it. **

ah geez. this is off topic and I’m tired

 

[bear06]

Whenever my kids see that show they want us to have 17 kids. We have 2 friends about to have their 11th and mine are always hoping to catch them. I doubt we’ll get that far!

We also know the family that Tonks knows (it’s not hard to figure out who Tonks is talking about - not too many families of 17) and they’re a great family with very talented and professional children.

The kids have been interviewed time and again and they seem just fine. The parents are devoted and just because there’s a buddy system doesn’t mean that the parents don’t do anything. Mom does help with the laundry, the cooking, the shopping, etc. Trust me, with that many kids she’s working not sitting on her duff.

I personally admire their giant closet/laundry room/changing room. All the clothes stay in one place. I’m drooling over that one. Very clever!!!

 

[airforcemom]

I admire large families. I had 3 in 3 years and that was all I could have but I often think of all that I was not able to have. I look at the joy I have with 3 children (2 Air Force sons and a daughter) and my three grandsons (12, 10 and 3) and just imagine how that would be increased with more children. The Lord’s peace to all families.

 

[SeekerJen]

I personally admire their giant closet/laundry room/changing room. All the clothes stay in one place. I’m drooling over that one. Very clever!!!

I know! If there’s one thing I don’t like about the Duggars (and this is not even their fault), it’s how ashamed I feel in comparison: they’ve got 17 kids and their house is a model of organization. DH and I don’t have any kids (only pets) and our house is often chaos.

 

[Teakafrog]

I know a family about to have their 12th. They are some of the most holy, as well as down to earth, common sense type people you could ever meet. I’ve always said I don’t know if I could handle that many, but am reminded that God will give you the graces to deal with whatever else He gives you.

God’s will is not usually clear to us until after the fact. I spent years agonizing over the pain of infertility, and didn’t know why God would do that to me…until we adopted our daughter. Now I know. If I would have had 3 or 4 bio kids in those years, we surely wouldn’t have been ready to adopt right then to get her. We wouldn’t have been there, ready to take her out of Gulfport, Mississippi just weeks before Katrina hit and destroyed the whole town. She may very easily have died. But now we are a happy family, and God has even blessed us with another baby since then.

I have found in my own life that trusting God with everything always gives greater blessings than trying to have control and do things my way. God is a lot smarter than me, so I trust Him to give me what I need, not necessarily what I think I want at the time. That includes children. If He blesses us with another baby, praise God! If not, we will prayerfully discern if another adoption is in our future. He already knows! My job is just to trust and obey.

 

[Rob_s_Wife]

DH and I don’t have any kids (only pets) and our house is often chaos.

My house/apartment was a pig sty before kids. Really my room was such a mess I remember my 16 yr old future dh cleaning it because it drove him nuts and let me assure you my dh was NOT a neat freak by any stretch! I remember a surprize visit from the in-laws in our first apartment where we had to tell them through the door to come back in 20 mintues because the laundry was piled up against the door for a trip to the laundromat the next day and we couldn’t open it. Thank goodness there wasn’t a fire or we wouldn’t have been able to escape the 3rd floor apt for all the laundry!

---

**Order improves an itty bit with each kid. You can live in chaos without kids. Kids naturally lend to the need for some level of organization, esp if you have lots of them in a small area. I bet the Duggars weren’t so neat and tidy earlier in the marriage either. **

 

[SeekerJen]

My house/apartment was a pig sty before kids. Really my room was such a mess I remember my 16 yr old future dh cleaning it because it drove him nuts and let me assure you my dh was NOT a neat freak by any stretch! I remember a surprize visit from the in-laws in our first apartment where we had to tell them through the door to come back in 20 mintues because the laundry was piled up against the door for a trip to the laundromat the next day and we couldn’t open it. Thank goodness there wasn’t a fire or we wouldn’t have been able to escape the 3rd floor apt for all the laundry!

---

Order improves an itty bit with each kid. You can live in chaos without kids. Kids naturally lend to the need for some level of organization, esp if you have lots of them in a small area. I bet the Duggars weren’t so neat and tidy earlier in the marriage either.

Okay, our house isn’t THAT bad. The laundry stays in (or around) the bedroom hampers or in the laundry room, with the exception of the socks DH occasionally leaves in the middle of the living room (4 years in and I’m still working on that bad habit). I suppose you’re right; if we were able to have kids, we’d probably be a lot more organized to keep things sane. And if we had a dishwasher other than me, things would be even better (hint hint to DH).

 

[sanctareparata]

My house/apartment was a pig sty before kids. Really my room was such a mess I remember my 16 yr old future dh cleaning it because it drove him nuts and let me assure you my dh was NOT a neat freak by any stretch! I remember a surprize visit from the in-laws in our first apartment where we had to tell them through the door to come back in 20 mintues because the laundry was piled up against the door for a trip to the laundromat the next day and we couldn’t open it.

They probably walked away thinking, "Come back in 20 minutes? Newlyweds? Laundry? Yeah right… "

 

[RCCDefender]

I didn’t say it was immoral for married couples to have a child every year. I happen to think it’s rather imprudent, but that most people do so because they don’t realize what a serious effect it has on the newborn’s health and on the mother’s health (you can’t give what you don’t have, and the mother doesn’t have the nutrients she needs to pass on to that baby so early on) and the attachment needs of the previous child, which will not be met as they should be if another child comes along too soon.

I’m sorry but the bolded statement sounds ridiculous, in my humble opinion. Having babies close together makes them unhealthy?? Can you back that up with scientific fact?

The kids have been interviewed time and again and they seem just fine. The parents are devoted and just because there’s a buddy system doesn’t mean that the parents don’t do anything. Mom does help with the laundry, the cooking, the shopping, etc. Trust me, with that many kids she’s working not sitting on her duff.

I personally admire their giant closet/laundry room/changing room. All the clothes stay in one place. I’m drooling over that one. Very clever!!!

Agreed! I’m actually in the process (albeit, a slow one) of turning a room off our laundry into a family closet. I have almost all my clothes in there (save the folded stuff, which hasn’t made it in there yet) and I’m moving the girls’ things in there. It makes doing laundry so much more simple! I just pull the clothes straight from the dryer and put them on hangers in that one room instead of having to sort, separate, fold, take to the different rooms, hang, and put away. Before, I was doing great to get to the point where I got everything to the correct room, but by that time I was so tired that the clothes would just sit in a pile on the recipient’s bed or chest for a couple of weeks by which point I had pick through the pile so much that there were only a few things left that were clean. Then I’d start the process all over again…

 

[AnnaTherese]

annatherese-

I am actually really hurt by some of your comments. You act like children are some game to play around with or something you can just plan and predict at will.

personally I don’t see how you can judge Michelle and Jim Bob. Have you called them yet? I’m sure they could explain why they did the things they did at the times they did it.

My friends mom was on birth control and the 2 times she was on it she got pregnet. interesting…

I have to be honest in so many way I wonder why children are born in the situations they are. from britney to myself. I do know that I have something to give this world and thats why I am here.

You talk so man about the duggars and you don’t even know them. I wish you could see what I see when I am actually with them.

Are you Catholic? I’m sure you are. Do you not believe everyoe is a child of God? that everyone is here because God willed it?

I’m sorry you don’t like the duggars or respect them but honestly going back and forth about how horrible it is that they are having 17 and the spacing of the children is bad is just wasted energy.

Michelle will Have Jennifer Danielle this month and she will not be unloved or feel like her siblings raised her. I’m sorry you feel this way but you really have no clue what you are talking about when it comes to this family.

I pray that you find your own journey and leave the Duggars to theirs… they would do the same for you

:getholy: :heaven: :bible1: :twocents:

I said nothing about the Duggers or anyone in particular except to say that I don’t know their hearts but God does. How is that judgemental? I certainly NEVER said that it was horrible for them to have 17 kids. In fact I distinctly remember saying that I myself want a large family. I never said that kids are born according to our own will and that’s it. Obviously we cooperate with God.

You have to understand that I am a literalist. I am not the read-between-the-lines type. Whatever I write is what I really mean. So if I say I am not pointing fingers, or that I think spacing is important, I really mean just that and nothing more. I do not mean that therefore everyone who doesn’t space their kids far apart is living in sin. For crying out loud, those are two vastly different statements. I am in no way pointing my comments toward them. It just struck me as I was reading about it that this thing, this problem that I have been talking about seems to be a phenomenon among good Catholics with good intentions, and I thought it was an important point of discussion to discuss in general. Again, I have judged no one. Have you really read everything I’ve said? Are you sure you’re understanding me properly? Because when I read your post, I’m somewhat confused. I don’t quite understand what you are getting at.