Armageddon was the Battle of the Milvian Bridge

[theoprofessor74]

It’s funny you mentioned Megiddo… This was the theory I used to hold as Armageddon before I started my research on Milvian Bridge.

Mine comes from an equation of historical events to decode the literal Revelations.

1. First - we establish that Rome was the world (the whore of Babylon) and from there we can say that the destruction of the world-- as the early Christians knew it-- was the destruction of Rome.

Rome + the fall of Rome

1. Secondly - what event was the fall of Rome (or what was the final battle that caused the fall of Rome “The old serpent”)

The Battle of the Milvian Bridge.

1. what would be the new eve from the “old serpent”

Rome (old serpent) + the fall of Rome + Battle of Milvian Bridge = the Byzantine Empire (new eve) or Christ’s Kingdom.

1. Using the premise that Nero was the antichrist… we have to decode the conqueror on the white horse? We can say and this is historical fact that Constantine conquered Rome for Christ. (And I’m sorry but Constantine and all of his buddies said his victory at Milvian Bridge led him to Christianity. Just believe me and Constantine on that one.Go read Eusebius)
   Anyway. Constantine the Great fits the conqueror description almost to the letter.

Crowned KING on a WHITE HORSE (just a coincidence but every painting of Constantine at the battle has him on some angelic white horse… but I didn’t factor that in anyway) holding a BOW and HIM to CONQUER… They could put that on Constantine’s tombstone.

• evil armies of the world. Let’s try to establish the EVIL ARMY. What army would represent the “evil” to a early Christian. Perhaps, Rome’s pagan army?

Maxentius’ pagan army. His army fought for the pagan gods of Rome.
that +

FINAL BATTLE:
To decode the final battle between an army of Christ and the evil armies of the world and the conclusion of the day of God’s wrath on this army and the "kingdoms of this world(Rome) are become the kingdoms of our Lord and of his Christ (to Christendom).

This event took place at the Battle of the Milvian Bridge.

There are more historical equations I factored in for my thesis but this is good enough to get the point.

 

[NotWorthy]

It’s funny you mentioned Megiddo… This was the theory I used to hold as Armageddon before I started my research on Milvian Bridge.

Mine comes from an equation of historical events to decode the literal Revelations.

1. First - we establish that Rome was the world (the whore of Babylon) and from there we can say that the destruction of the world-- as the early Christians knew it-- was the destruction of Rome.

Rome + the fall of Rome

I would question your open assumption. The Whore of Babylon is not Rome, but Jerusalem.

The “Great City” where Christ was crucified (Rev. 11:8) had become a “false prophet” in her testimony to the world that Jesus was not the Messiah, and in her apostasy she had become a “great harlot” and a “false bride.” This “Great City” that will be destroyed by fire and who has become a “False Bride” identifies both Biblically and historically with the city *“once full of fair judgment,” *the city of Jerusalem. In this chapter the “Great City” will be symbolically identified as “Babylon.” The city of Babylon, whose name means, “gate of heaven,” had at one time received the blessings of God only to reject Him in favor of state-worship and false gods. God brought judgment on Babylon and the Persians destroyed the city in the 6th century BC. Jerusalem was meant to be the true “gate of heaven”; God’s holy witness to the nations of the world. But Jerusalem, whose name means “will provide peace” rejected God and the “peace of God which is beyond our understanding” when she rejected Jesus, the Messiah, God come in the flesh. *“The faithful city, what a harlot she has become: Zion, once full of fair judgment, where saving justice used to dwell, but now assassins!” *Isaiah 1:21 (circa 740BC)

   Ezekiel 16:35-36 (Yahweh to Jerusalem) *“Very well, whore, hear the word of Yahweh!  The Lord Yahweh says this: For having squandered your money *(literally “poured out *ekcheo] *your bronze” [meaning “lust”]) *and let yourself be seen naked while whoring with your lovers and all the foul idols of your loathsome practices and for giving them your children’s blood –for this I shall assemble all the lovers to whom you have given pleasure,… (v.58) “You have brought this on yourself, with your lewdness and your loathsome practices—declares the Lord Yahweh.”  *(Yahweh’s message to Ezekiel 5 years before the destruction of Jerusalem in 586(7)BC)

As you well know, to understand Genesis, one has to be familiar with Ezekial, Zechariah, and Isaiah. Ezekiel had previously mated Jerusalem with both “whore” and “Babylon”.

 

[theoprofessor74]

I studied where the early church fathers referred to Rome as the whore of Babylon.

And then I have to refer you to the BBC article stating the views of many Christian historians and scholars believe that John was writing about Rome.

 

[Dchsknight]

One Thing I would liek to Point out. First off Rev…Is incomplete. We know this Because the Angel that Showed John ever thing, said Not to write everything down. John also says he cant write everythign down because we as Humans Can not and do not have any words to discribe what he saw. So he did the best he could…

Second The author John is the same St. John the Apostle who wrote 1,2,3 John and the Gospel of John. .

Thrid John was not Exiled to Greece… Proper. he was Exiled to Create. I know it is a Technicality, but it is very important.

Fourth. I tend to think Rev are things to come and things that have not happened , IMO with my Geeky and nerdy self, think that Rev is Quite literal and that there will be a Red Dragon falling from the Sky and his tail will sweep a 3rd of the stars onto the Earth ( I also Think those stars and the destruction they will cause are Punishment for all the Children Aborted). I believe there will be a Huge angel who is so strong and the true Example of Power besides Jesus, who will step onto our plane and battle with the Dragon. And if that is True, When i stand before my Father I want to ask him for Front row seats to Satan’s *** whopping!

 

[theoprofessor74]

here’s where Megiddo fails.

There have been 3 battles at Megiddo.

1 in 15th century B.C.
one in 609 B.C.
and one in 1918 (and we are still here)

So, Armageddon would be this future battle. Now, I’m sure that any battles today or in the future will not be fought with bows and horses. And Nero isn’t coming back from the dead. Because remember the coming Antichrist had to have lived before John wrote Revelations whenever you think he wrote Revelations.

 

[NotWorthy]

I studied where the early church fathers referred to Rome as the whore of Babylon.

Were the Church Fathers in agreement? I do understand that Peter called Rome Babylon in his writings, but the “Whore of Babylon” is borrowing from numerous referrals to Jerusalem.

And then I have to refer you to the BBC article stating the views of many Christian historians and scholars believe that John was writing about Rome.

I would look to the Old Testament use of harlotry:

Biblically the imagery of the “False Bride” is a familiar image. In Biblical symbolism the motif of the Bride falling into adultery and harlotry identifies God’s Covenant people falling into apostasy. To go after false gods and to abandon the sacred Covenant is equaled with adultery and harlotry. This metaphor of harlotry is exclusively used in the Old Testament for a city or a nation that has abandoned God’s holy Covenant and rejected God. This imagery is always used for faithless Israel, “Bride of Yahweh” with only 2 exceptions:
1.The Phoenician city of Tyre and
2.the Assyrian capital city Nineveh.
These are the 2 cities, outside of Israel, that had both been in covenant with God. See 1Kings 5:1-12; 9:13; Is. 23:17; and Amos 1:9.

While Rome may be considered to be the Harlot to some historians, Rome was never in Covenant with God. The beast that the harlot is riding, with the 10 heads and 7 horns would more than likely be Rome, IMO.

 

[theoprofessor74]

While Rome may be considered to be the Harlot to some historians, Rome was never in Covenant with God. The beast that the harlot is riding, with the 10 heads and 7 horns would more than likely be Rome, IMO.

Agreed. Though I still believe the whore of Babylon to be Rome in John’s mind.

 

[NotWorthy]

here’s where Megiddo fails.

There have been 3 battles at Megiddo.

1 in 15th century B.C.
one in 609 B.C.
and one in 1918 (and we are still here)

So, Armageddon would be this future battle. Now, I’m sure that any battles today or in the future will not be fought with bows and horses. And Nero isn’t coming back from the dead. Because remember the coming Antichrist had to have lived before John wrote Revelations whenever you think he wrote Revelations.

You mentioned the rider with the Bow. Its interesting that you linked this with Constantine. Christ is related to the Bow in Revelation. I think Christ is the rider on the white horse.

Several of the Church fathers, such as Bishop Irenaeus (m. 202AD) in his book Against Heresies (4:21,3) and Bishop Victorinus of Pettau (m.304AD) in his Commentary of the Apocalypse of John, do identify this first horse and rider with Christ and with the victory of the Gospel which must be preached first before the judgments are given on the earth. See Mark 13:9-10: “Be on your guard: you will be handed over to sanhedrins; you will be beaten in synagogues; and you will be brought before governors and kings for my sake, as evidence to them, since the gospel must first be proclaimed to all nations.” And Matthew 10:23: “If they persecute you in one town take refuge in the next; and if they persecute you in that, take refuge in another. In truth I tell you, you will not have gone the round of the towns of Israel before the Son of Man comes.” There are several points about this victorious rider that demonstrate He may be Jesus:

1.He is riding a White Horse. See Rev. 19:11-16 “And now I saw heaven open, and a white horse appear; its rider was called Trustworthy and True; in uprightness He judges and makes war….” The rider in this passage in chapter 19 is clearly Christ the victorious judge. He is called by the same title in Rev. 3:14 in the letter to Laodicea: “…Here is the message of the Amen, the trustworthy, the true witness,…”.

2. He carries a Bow. Just as the Zechariah passages are a key to understand Rev. chapter 6, the book of the prophet Habakkuk is also important. In Habakkuk 3:8-9 God coming in judgment is riding on horses against His enemies and is armed with a Bow: “Yahweh, are you enraged with the rivers, are you angry with the sea, that you should mount your chargers, your rescuing chariots: You uncover your bow, and give the string its fill of arrows.” In addition to the Habakkuk passage John is also referencing Psalms 45:3-6 one of the great prophecies of the Messiah’s victory over His enemies: *“Warrior, strap your sword at your side, in your majesty and splendor advance, ride on in the cause of truth, gentleness and uprightness. Stretch the bowstring tight, lending terror to your right hand. Your arrows are sharp, nations lie at your mercy, the king’s enemies lose heart. Your divine throne, O God, is for ever and ever, the scepter of your kingship a scepter of justice, you love uprightness and detest evil.” *

*3.*The rider is wearing a **crown**.  John’s 1st century Christians would have immediately understood that the rider on the white horse was Jesus Christ on the basis of the other points we have mentioned, but the mention of the crown would have left no doubt. This rider is the King of Kings.   This is an image of Christ that we know from Revelations. See Rev. 14:14 *“Now in my vision I saw a white cloud and sitting on it one like a son of man with a gold crown on His head and a sharp sickle in His hand.” *and 19:11-12 *“And now I saw heaven open, and a white horse appear, its rider was called Trustworthy and True; in uprightness He judges and makes war.  His eyes were flames of fire, and He was crowned with many coronets;..”* 

4.The final point which may identify the White Rider as Christ is the fact that the rider goes out **conquering!  **Satan/ the Antichrist cannot conquer.  He has been conquered by the resurrection of the Lamb.  The Greek word for conquering is the very same word in the Greek that was used in Christ’s letters to the 7 churches for *overcoming *or *conquering *in Rev. 2:7,11, 17, 26; 3:5, 12, 21.  Then too, the White Rider is not simply one of 4 riders…He is leading the other riders with His bow and His crown.

 

[NotWorthy]

Agreed. Though I still believe the whore of Babylon to be Rome in John’s mind.

Why? I wasn’t aware that John was giving his opinion on anything. I think John was simply writing down visions.

 

[theoprofessor74]

Why? I wasn’t aware that John was giving his opinion on anything. I think John was simply writing down visions.

And that’s where we differ…

That and some other issues.

It’s a case where we got the same bible but read it at different schools, my friend.

 

[theoprofessor74]

As I have stated over and over again… Many scholars believe John was writing about Rome. Plain and simple. I have provided sources to back this up.

Now this bow on the white horse.
In the passage of Revelations, it doesn’t mention Jesus Christ as the rider of the white horse. He mentions Christ in others but not to the conqueror. Why not identify Christ as the rider? Or HIM instead of him?

And there is debate on that… My theory is Constantine.

Any future battle… no crowns, no kings, no horses, no bows
The Battle of the Milvian Bridge – well, they had all those…

 

[theoprofessor74]

Why? I wasn’t aware that John was giving his opinion on anything. I think John was simply writing down visions.

Look at it this way.

When Dr. Martin Luther King said “I have a dream” of a color-blind society. Maybe he didn’t actually have “a dream” but more a belief in the future.

Now, take John

 

[COPLAND_3]

Here is my definition of the Great Harlot of Babylon- an empire that is made up of materialism and atheism. This empire has always been on earth under different nations and kingdoms. The Great Harlot will be destroyed during the Great Tribulation. litteralchristianlibrary.wetpaint.com/page/Chapter+17

 

[NotWorthy]

As I have stated over and over again… Many scholars believe John was writing about Rome. Plain and simple. I have provided sources to back this up.

Now this bow on the white horse.
In the passage of Revelations, it doesn’t mention Jesus Christ as the rider of the white horse. He mentions Christ in others but not to the conqueror. Why not identify Christ as the rider? Or HIM instead of him?

And there is debate on that… My theory is Constantine.

Any future battle… no crowns, no kings, no horses, no bows
The Battle of the Milvian Bridge – well, they had all those…

Who else is called Trustworthy and True?

He is riding a White Horse. See Rev. 19:11-16 “And now I saw heaven open, and a white horse appear; its rider was called Trustworthy and True; in uprightness He judges and makes war….” The rider in this passage in chapter 19 is clearly Christ the victorious judge. He is called by the same title in Rev. 3:14 in the letter to Laodicea: “…Here is the message of the Amen, the trustworthy, the true witness,…”.

As stated, In Revelation, Jesus calls Himself Trustworthy and True. And here in Revelation 19, the rider was called the same name.

 

[NotWorthy]

Look at it this way.

When Dr. Martin Luther King said “I have a dream” of a color-blind society. Maybe he didn’t actually have “a dream” but more a belief in the future.

Now, take John

But John is specifically told what to write and what not to write. His visions are directly revealed to Him by the angel(s) and by Christ.

Big difference.

 

[NotWorthy]

Here is my definition of the Great Harlot of Babylon- an empire that is made up of materialism and atheism. This empire has always been on earth under different nations and kingdoms. The Great Harlot will be destroyed during the Great Tribulation. litteralchristianlibrary.wetpaint.com/page/Chapter+17

Copland, as I addressed with the Professor, in the Old Testament, a Harlot is always a city (or the Assembly of Israel) that had a covenant with God and broke the Covenant. The empires of materialism and atheism would not be harlots (IMO) unless they were first in some type of relationship (covenant might be stretching it…) with God. Rome hadn’t been. Nor do the empires that you are mentioning.

 

[theoprofessor74]

But John is specifically told what to write and what not to write. His visions are directly revealed to Him by the angel(s) and by Christ.

Big difference.

If John were writing today and lets say he lived under a regime that imprisoned him for his religious beliefs, killed most of his peers and was the known world at the time.

Okay, so you’re sitting in Patmos writing your gospel to describe how your religion will one day reign supreme and this world that you know will crumble. How would you write that?

I’ve listened to men, in many numbers, standing on the pulpit on Sunday telling me prophecies… they had a vision from Christ and He spoke to them about their life and future events. And I’m not saying I don’t believe all of them but just not the literal way one could take their “vision” or “prophecy”. I’m not saying he wasn’t right. I’m saying he was right when he wrote about the FALL OF ROME. The prophecy was fulfilled in 313 A.D.

We interpret John differently.

 

[NotWorthy]

If John were writing today and lets say he lived under a regime that imprisoned him for his religious beliefs, killed most of his peers and was the known world at the time.

Okay, so you’re sitting in Patmos writing your gospel to describe how your religion will one day reign supreme and this world that you know will crumble. How would you write that?

I’ve listened to men, in many numbers, standing on the pulpit on Sunday telling me prophecies… they had a vision from Christ and He spoke to them about their life and future events. And I’m not saying I don’t believe all of them but just not the literal way one could take their “vision” or “prophecy”. I’m not saying he wasn’t right. I’m saying he was right when he wrote about the FALL OF ROME. The prophecy was fulfilled in 313 A.D.

We interpret John differently.

Ahhh, but the world didn’t crumble. The secular world hasn’t gone away. And Rome didn’t fall for several more centuries.

 

[theoprofessor74]

Ahhh, but the world didn’t crumble. The secular world hasn’t gone away. And Rome didn’t fall for several more centuries.

Remember the world is Rome.

Rome’s pagan world did crumble (at Milvian Bridge). And Christ’s kingdom followed for a 1,000 years (The Byzantine Empire) with Constantine as the first Christian monarch and where Christianity reigned supreme.

Rome wasn’t built in a day but it fell in a day at Milvian Bridge thanks to Constantine.

 

[NotWorthy]

Remember the world is Rome.

Rome’s pagan world did crumble (at Milvian Bridge). And Christ’s kingdom followed for a 1,000 years (The Byzantine Empire) with Constantine as the first Christian monarch and where Christianity reigned supreme.

Rome wasn’t built in a day but it fell in a day at Milvian Bridge thanks to Constantine.

I thought Christianity was simply made legal during Constantine’s reign. And then only 70 years later was it made the official religion of Rome.

But stamping out paganism by a simple edict was almost as fruitless as spending over 300 years trying to stamp out Christianity (in the eyes of the secular leaders).