Armenian Church

[Godric2]

I know there is an Armenian uniate church, but I don’t know much about it.

I have visited Armenia and indeed have been to Holy Echmiadzin but I don’t recall having come across uniates in Armenia.

Is the patriarchate for the uniate church in Yerevan?



Armenian Footwashing

 

[malphono]

First of all, I suppose I should note that the word “unitate” isn’t used in this forum. See the [thread=243365]sticky thread[/thread], particularly post #4 therein, which will explain further.

Secondly, the Armenian CC Catholicosate is headquartered in Lebanon, as is the Armenian Orthodox Catholicosate of Cilicia. The Armenian Orthodox Patriarchate is that of Etchmadzin in Armenia.

 

[dzheremi]

I’m pretty sure the Armenian Catholics are mainly based around Gyumri (Armenia’s second city), not Yerevan. There is an Armenian Catholic seminary there, though the Armenian Catholic Church’s headquarters are apparently in Lebanon (Bzoummar), not Armenia. There are not very many Armenian Catholics in the first place (only 700K, most of whom don’t live in Armenia; over 90% of Armenians are Armenian Orthodox, with smaller minorities of Baptists, Catholics, Presbyterians, etc).

 

[Peter_J]

First of all, I suppose I should note that the word “unitate” isn’t used in this forum. See the [thread=243365]sticky thread[/thread], particularly post #4 therein, which will explain further.

Indeed. Nor, for the matter, do we refer to the Orthodox by the term

Nearly all Non-Uniat churches possess corresponding Uniat groups who have reacknowledged their allegiance to the Pope.

even though it, too, can be found in the Catholic dictionaries of yesteryear. (That particular quote is from Fr. John Hardon’s Modern Catholic Dictionary.)

It’s slow progress toward rapprochement, but it’s better than no progress.

 

[dzheremi]

It should be noted that there are hardly any Armenian Catholics in Armenia proper. There are very few in the whole world (wiki lists 700,000), and they, like the Orthodox counterparts from whom they came, are mostly outside of Armenia. I think the Armenian diaspora totals something like 8 million people, versus Armenia’s population of about 3 million. And something like 95% or more of Armenians are Orthodox, with the remainder being split between Catholics and various Protestants (shades of my recent post on the Copts, I guess…though the majority of the Copts remain in Egypt for now).

From what I’ve been able to find, it would not be unreasonable to expect more Catholics in Gymuri (Armenia’s second largest city) than in Yerevan, as Gymuri has a (the?) Armenian Catholic seminary. But even there the vast majority of the population is Orthodox. Armenia is not religiously or even terribly ethnically diverse. You’re basically either Armenian (Orthodox) or a Kurd (they’re the second largest ethnic group at a whopping 1.3% of the population, and they’re mostly Yazidi, not Muslim, from what I’ve been able to gather). The number of Catholics, like the number of Russians (Eastern Orthodox; 0.5%), or the number of Germans, is tiny.

 

[malphono]

From what I’ve been able to find, it would not be unreasonable to expect more Catholics in Gymuri (Armenia’s second largest city) than in Yerevan, as Gymuri has a (the?) Armenian Catholic seminary.

I’m not personally familiar with this, but CNEWA shows it differently. Fr Ron Roberson (whom I count as a friend friend albeit that we haven’t seen one another for some years) is normally pretty accurate.

There are now four major seminaries at the service of the Armenian Catholic Church: The Armenian Pontifical College founded in Rome in 1883; a seminary directed by the Mechitarist monks in Bikfaya, Lebanon; one at the Bzommar Patriarchal Congregation in Lebanon; and one for married candidates for the priesthood in Tbilissi, Georgia.

 

[dzheremi]

Yes, but I thought the OP was asking about Armenian Catholics in Armenia proper, particularly Yerevan. There are, of course, more resources available outside of Armenia, since most Armenian Catholics don’t live in Armenia (same as Armenian Orthodox, as I noted in that post). As far as I know, Gymuri is the place where Armenian Catholic priests get trained in Armenia.

 

[malphono]

Yes, but I thought the OP was asking about Armenian Catholics in Armenia proper, particularly Yerevan. There are, of course, more resources available outside of Armenia, since most Armenian Catholics don’t live in Armenia (same as Armenian Orthodox, as I noted in that post). As far as I know, Gymuri is the place where Armenian Catholic priests get trained in Armenia.

:doh2: I guess I got carried away.

 

[Peter_J]

It should be noted that there are hardly any Armenian Catholics in Armenia proper. There are very few in the whole world (wiki lists 700,000), and they, like the Orthodox counterparts from whom they came, are mostly outside of Armenia. I think the Armenian diaspora totals something like 8 million people, versus Armenia’s population of about 3 million. And something like 95% or more of Armenians are Orthodox, with the remainder being split between Catholics and various Protestants (shades of my recent post on the Copts, I guess…though the majority of the Copts remain in Egypt for now).

From what I’ve been able to find, it would not be unreasonable to expect more Catholics in Gymuri (Armenia’s second largest city) than in Yerevan, as Gymuri has a (the?) Armenian Catholic seminary. But even there the vast majority of the population is Orthodox. Armenia is not religiously or even terribly ethnically diverse. You’re basically either Armenian (Orthodox) or a Kurd (they’re the second largest ethnic group at a whopping 1.3% of the population, and they’re mostly Yazidi, not Muslim, from what I’ve been able to gather). The number of Catholics, like the number of Russians (Eastern Orthodox; 0.5%), or the number of Germans, is tiny.

So dividing the numbers of the first paragraph, about 6% of Armenians are Catholic … I would guess that the percentage in Armenians is about the same, but I admit I could be completely wrong.

 

[dzheremi]

I’m not sure what “I would guess that the percentage in Armenians is about the same” means, but it appears that I misspoke (er, mistyped) earlier: The number of Armenians worldwide (so, including Armenia and the diaspora) is about 8 million. This does change the percentages a bit. However, it is interesting to note that the World Council of Churches (which provides different figures for Etchmiadzin and Cilicia, though the two Sees are in communion with each other – see here and here for figures) puts the total number of adherents at 9,308,000 – significantly higher than the total number of ethnic Armenians estimated to exist in the world. Obviously, the “extra” 1.3 million are not all Catholics if there are only 700K of those, but honestly, and I write this with all love to Armenian people, I don’t think there is any significant number of non-Armenians in the Armenian Apostolic Church or its Catholic counterpart. They simply did not have the missionary imperative since the genocides caused them to turn inward.

So it’s a bit of a mystery what to make of these statistics. Maybe the Armenians are the only people in the world who are 100%+ Orthodox…

At any rate, the point still stands that in Armenia proper there are hardly any Catholics. That’s not a slight against Catholics, of course, it’s just that there are hardly any people who aren’t Armenian in the country, and there are hardly any Armenians who aren’t Orthodox in the first place.

 

[Godric2]

I apologise for using a term which is not wise to use. I had not appreciated sensitivities.

I am very grateful for the interesting information kind posters have given here.

Thank you.

 

[Scythian]

My understanding from what I have read is that there used to be many more Armenian Catholics in the parts of modern Turkey that was traditionally part of Armenia, but many were wiped out in the Armenian genocide (along with Syriac Catholics, who also suffered great losses in the Armenian genocide)

 

[malphono]

My understanding from what I have read is that there used to be many more Armenian Catholics in the parts of modern Turkey that was traditionally part of Armenia, but many were wiped out in the Armenian genocide (along with Syriac Catholics, who also suffered great losses in the Armenian genocide)

To a degree, that’s true. The bulk of the Armenian diaspora in Syria, Iraq, and Lebanon is originally from that region, and it’s ultimately why the Armenian CC Catholicosate of Cilicia is located in Bzommar, Lebanon.