Armenian Genocide Resolution

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iht.com/articles/ap/2007/10/19/america/NA-GEN-US-Gates-Armenians-Genocide.php

McCain:
armenianstudies.csufresno.edu/hye_sharzhoom/vol21/march69/mcain.htm

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This resolution will not help anybody. It cannot erase the past. And the only people that will be hurt by this resolution are American troops and Iraqi citizens.

Please go here to find out if your representative sponsored or supported this resolution. There are real and serious consequences on the table.

Customs delays at the Turkish border sparked by this resolution are already impacting food stores.
 
Some of us have been waiting a LONG time for Turkey to recognize what it did to our families. I have pictures of the headless bodies of my relatives, and the mass graves filled with corpses from my grandfather’s village of Harput. I can’t even visit my family home in Eastern Turkey without a “political escort”.:mad:

There is a moral cloud of shame and guilt that hangs over the world, one that is far greater than any political expediency in a temporary conflict. A wound that isn’t cleaned out festers even after it’s scabbed over, and that’s exactly what the Armenian Genocide recognition is all about.

You can cover over the ghosts, but you won’t cure the disease with such a tactic. It’s FAR past time to get our pain recognized.

Peace and God bless!
 
Ghosty said:
Some of us have been waiting a LONG time for Turkey to recognize what it did to our families. I have pictures of the headless bodies of my relatives, and the mass graves filled with corpses from my grandfather’s village of Harput. I can’t even visit my family home in Eastern Turkey without a “political escort”.:mad:

There is a moral cloud of shame and guilt that hangs over the world, one that is far greater than any political expediency in a temporary conflict. A wound that isn’t cleaned out festers even after it’s scabbed over, and that’s exactly what the Armenian Genocide recognition is all about.

You can cover over the ghosts, but you won’t cure the disease with such a tactic. It’s FAR past time to get our pain recognized.

Peace and God bless!
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I feel your loss.
I understand your pain.
But, is it not a slap in the face and a disrespect of your family for those in congress to use their suffering to make a political move against the president?
This is clearly not about the genocide, but about the supply to the troops in Iraq.
It’s about forcing the hand of the president to pull out of Iraq by starving our troops.
I can assure you that the leader of the House is not concerned about a crime commited against your people so many years ago.
The time is not now.
The time was 50 years ago or 10 years from now, but not now.
The vote must now be no, that there was no genocide, just to keep our relationship with Turkey alive.
They are forcing those who want our troops to have supplies and food to lie about the past.
The timing of this vote is political.
The only vote is no.
 
Hey, what about Turkey’s recent trouble with the Kurds - they claim terrorists are using Iraq as a base.

The irony is that the USA is telling another country that it’s not the best soloution to send troops into Iraq - when Iraq poses a terrorist threat!

If only the USA practiced what it preached.

It’s a shame about the Armenian genocide. But repeated western nations have turned a blind eye to Turkey’s human rights record.

In the 1920s various western nations (including the USA) had naval vessels sitting in Smyrna harbour idling watching on as the Turks committed a genoice in that city.

The Turks had pogroms against the Greeks in Istambul in the 1950s… but 'cause Turkey’s always been such a *good *ally no one in the west has cared
 
Deist said:
iht.com/articles/ap/2007/10/19/america/NA-GEN-US-Gates-Armenians-Genocide.php

McCain:
armenianstudies.csufresno.edu/hye_sharzhoom/vol21/march69/mcain.htm

http://i161.photobucket.com/albums/t202/juleska/WhyWeNeedTurkey01R.jpg

http://i161.photobucket.com/albums/t202/juleska/WhyWeNeedTurkey02R.jpg

http://i161.photobucket.com/albums/t202/juleska/WhyWeNeedTurkey03R.jpg

http://i161.photobucket.com/albums/t202/juleska/WhyWeNeedTurkey04R.jpg

http://i161.photobucket.com/albums/t202/juleska/WhyWeNeedTurkey05R.jpg

http://i161.photobucket.com/albums/t202/juleska/WhyWeNeedTurkey06R.jpg

http://i161.photobucket.com/albums/t202/juleska/WhyWeNeedTurkey07R.jpg

This resolution will not help anybody. It cannot erase the past. And the only people that will be hurt by this resolution are American troops and Iraqi citizens.

Please go here to find out if your representative sponsored or supported this resolution. There are real and serious consequences on the table.

Customs delays at the Turkish border sparked by this resolution are already impacting food stores.
Click to expand...
What is stated here is not true. Iraq can be supplied through the Persian Gulf as there is a part of Iraq which is on the coast of the Persian Gulf. And if need be, the US can establish a corridor through Kuwait. Anyway, it is about time that the US get out of Iraq. According to Ron Paul, we really had no business being there in the first place. According to news reports, too many innocent women and children have been killed by this illegal invasion. Not to mention how many innocent Iraqis have been tortured by American soldiers?
Further, it is only right to recognise the slaughter of innocent Christian Armenians. And by the way, when will Turkey ever give up the Hagia Sophia, one of the greatest Churches in the world, to the Orthodox Christians to whom it belongs?
 
bobzills said:
What is stated here is not true. Iraq can be supplied through the Persian Gulf as there is a part of Iraq which is on the coast of the Persian Gulf. And if need be, the US can establish a corridor through Kuwait. Anyway, it is about time that the US get out of Iraq. According to Ron Paul, we really had no business being there in the first place. According to news reports, too many innocent women and children have been killed by this illegal invasion. Not to mention how many innocent Iraqis have been tortured by American soldiers?
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Some argue that the USA should remain, to rebuild - what they destroyed.

It’s like a gang bursts into your house and trash it, then say that they’re going to live there for a few months to rebuild it - it only adds to the trauma
 
Montalban said:
Some argue that the USA should remain, to rebuild - what they destroyed.

It’s like a gang bursts into your house and trash it, then say that they’re going to live there for a few months to rebuild it - it only adds to the trauma
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The problem with your analogy is that the family in the house is not the occupant that was kicked out. The house had a criminal family member who was terrorizing the rest of his family members and threatening his neighbors. Now that we helped get rid of him, the family (democratically elected Iraqi government) want us to stay for now to help keep the criminal family member’s gang buddies at bay and help keep rival gangs from taking over. When the family feels more secure and they ask us to leave, we will leave.

Now, back on subject. I do think this is a matter of timing. I do hope we pass this legislation, but it needs to be done when we have exited Iraq. To pass it now would be irresponsible.
 
I feel your loss.
I understand your pain.
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Forgive me for saying so, but I’m not sure that you do. If you did then you’d be rallying for this measure to pass, just as my people do year after year. Eighty years of humming and hawing is quite enough, IMO.
But, is it not a slap in the face and a disrespect of your family for those in congress to use their suffering to make a political move against the president?
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If that’s what it takes to FINALLY get this measure passed, then so be it. This is hardly the first time that the issue has come up, and the U.S. has ALWAYS found an excuse to ignore it. Now is just another excuse, and it’s getting rather old.

If it takes political games to get the issue out in the open, and get some changes made in Turkey then that’s what needs to happen. Every such measure is a matter of politics to politicians anyway, nothing new there.

Peace and God bless!
 
Ghosty said:
Forgive me for saying so, but I’m not sure that you do. If you did then you’d be rallying for this measure to pass, just as my people do year after year. Eighty years of humming and hawing is quite enough, IMO.If that’s what it takes to FINALLY get this measure passed, then so be it. This is hardly the first time that the issue has come up, and the U.S. has ALWAYS found an excuse to ignore it. Now is just another excuse, and it’s getting rather old.

If it takes political games to get the issue out in the open, and get some changes made in Turkey then that’s what needs to happen. Every such measure is a matter of politics to politicians anyway, nothing new there.

Peace and God bless!
Click to expand...
First, let me apologize for saying that I understand.
Clearly I do not, I am not Armenian, nor do I have any stake or family history to compare to this slaughter of your kin.
That was out of line and I’m sorry.

My only concern is for our troops at this point.
I have friends in Iraq and they are the ones who pointed out the problems they are now having because of this resolution.
I mentioned you to them and one wanted to talk to you but I decided to keep this board to myself selfish as that may seem.

I think this is long overdue.
I think this should have been handled much longer ago.
I think that in the 8 years of the Clinton administration and the 8 years of the Regan administration this could have been addressed with no harm to any of our U.S. forces.
This is from WWI, since then there was Kennedy, Johnson, Carter, Truman, etc.,etc.,etc…
I know this needs to be addressed but right now, at this moment, it’s a dirty trick.
No one can bring back the dead or even convince Turkey to admit this atrocity.
This will do nothing but hurt our troops.
And not only that, politicians who would normally vote that there was indeed a Holocaust might vote to reject that notion just to apease Turkey at this crucial juncture.
So, instead of a unanimous vote by congress, it may very well be a split vote in rejection of the notion that this actually happened.
And that is the other thing that bothers me.
Forcing a lie to appease Turkey because it is now, and only now, politically expedient to reject the truth of what happened to your people.
And that is a disservice and a morally reprehensible outcome of this political dirty trick.
 
Deist said:
I think this is long overdue.
I think this should have been handled much longer ago.
I think that in the 8 years of the Clinton administration and the 8 years of the Regan administration this could have been addressed with no harm to any of our U.S. forces.
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I agree. And I think it is good that we are continuing to have this discussion, because it isn’t something we should just forget about.
Its a topic which needs to stay in our national consciousness, not simply as an Armenian-American issue but as a universal value on human life.

We need to keep this topic alive, not just in these forums, but in the wider discussions we have in life.
 
rlg94086 said:
The problem with your analogy is that the family in the house is not the occupant that was kicked out. The house had a criminal family member who was terrorizing the rest of his family members and threatening his neighbors.
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You mean after you sold them weapons to do so?

It’s like there’s a house on the block that’s one of your best clients. When their neighbours (we’ll call them the Iran family) were causing you trouble your best clients attacked them across the fence.

You sold your best friends some really nifty weapons, and just for good measure, sold some to the Iran family as well.

The Iraq family was headed by a really bad dude - so bad that he poisoned his uncle Mr Kurd in the granny-flat out in the backyard, but you kept selling him weapons.

After storming his house with your vigilante-SWAT* and finding no WMDs as claimed, you tear up the house, kill the head of the family Mr Hussein and set up a governement in the house that wants to keep you on to repair the damage you caused?

Does that sound about right?

After invading this house hold the kids of Mr Kur out in the granny-flat start throwing stones across the back fence at the McTurkey’s behind them.

You warn the McTurkey’s not to do the very thing you just did - attack the house in order to claim to protect the other neighbours from terrorism!

*-I call them vigilantes because for years you and others have agreed to a system of international law - and policing called the UN (United Neighbours - in this case 😃 ). The United Neighbours is a system you support, but then when they don’t agree with you, you ignore them and form your vigilantes and attack the house on the pretext that they had some WMD (Wickedly Mad Dobermans? perhaps :D). But you don’t find any, not even Doberman p**p.
 
Ghosty said:
Some of us have been waiting a LONG time for Turkey to recognize what it did to our families.
Peace and God bless!
Click to expand...
What makes you think any action of the U.S. congress is going to influence what Turkey “recognizes?”

JSA
 
Ghosty,

While I sympathize with the suffering the Armenians went through, and there is no dispute on numbers, there is is still LEGITIMATE historical debate as to whether or not the Young Turks actually ordered the massacre. The US Congress passing this resolution will have ZERO affect on that debate, or in helping Armenians in any way at all. On the other hand, it will ire the current Turkish government, which was not the government in place at the time this tragedy happened. It will also endanger the lives of the US service men and women currently serving in Turkey, and endanger our supply routes. Seventyfive percent of our supplies for Iraq go through Turkey. Inspite of your suggestion it would take MONTHS to reroute the needed supplies through the much more dangerous Persian Gulf.

Save the resolution for a time when History has decided and when US service members aren’t in danger.
 
Ghosty said:
This is hardly the first time that the issue has come up
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You’re right; I believe the issue was brought up last in the mid '90’s. Then-President Clinton asked that it be shelved because we were involved in Bosnia and antagonizing Turkey would just make that conflict more difficult to resolve. House Speaker Hastert agreed and the measure was not brought up for a vote.
If it takes political games to get the issue out in the open, and get some changes made in Turkey then that’s what needs to happen. Every such measure is a matter of politics to politicians anyway, nothing new there.
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If it were only a matter of politics I might agree with you but the war in Iraq is not a political game and I am not willing to see more lives put at risk just so we can denounce an atrocity that happened 90 years ago and to which we were not a party.

Ender
 
Montalban said:
The United Neighbours is a system you support, but then when they don’t agree with you, you ignore them and form your vigilantes and attack the house on the pretext that they had some WMD .
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It doesn’t sound to me like the US is giving strong support to the UN.
 
Maybe all of you are right.
Maybe all of these Armenian CHRISTIANS made this all up.
Maybe all these Armenians dieing for their belief in Jesus should not be remembered.
Maybe Henry Morgenthau the ambassdor for the US made all this up as well.
Maybe when he said “The Young Turks displayed greater ingenuity than their predecessor” was an illusion.
Maybe we should not pray and remember for the ones who died for their belief in Christ.
Maybe its better to put it in the past and to forget their sacrifice for those who believe in Christ and are willing to die for it.
Maybe its better to give ideas for future Adolf Hitlers so they may say “Who remembers the annihilation of the Armenians?”
Maybe all of you are right.
 
ClearwaterBeach said:
Maybe all of you are right.
Maybe all of these Armenian CHRISTIANS made this all up.
Maybe all these Armenians dieing for their belief in Jesus should not be remembered.
Maybe Henry Morgenthau the ambassdor for the US made all this up as well.
Maybe when he said “The Young Turks displayed greater ingenuity than their predecessor” was an illusion.
Maybe we should not pray and remember for the ones who died for their belief in Christ.
Maybe its better to put it in the past and to forget their sacrifice for those who believe in Christ and are willing to die for it.
Maybe its better to give ideas for future Adolf Hitlers so they may say “Who remembers the annilation of the Armenians?”
Maybe all of you are right.
Click to expand...
Who are you referring to? I haven’t read anyone’s posts on CAF making those sort of assertions. What I have read is people questioing the timing of the resolution, not the content.

Are you hanging out at a coffeehouse, spouting freeform poetry or something? 😛
 
When is the right time?
Now is the right time. I will continue to fight for justice. I know if I do my part Jesus will do his part. I pray that the Turks do not repeat history and allow more people to starve to death (our US Troops). I have faith in God. I know if he wanted he could rain down food. Nothing is impossible for him. I have to do my part so God can do his part.
 
Yerusalyim said:
Ghosty,

there is is still LEGITIMATE historical debate as to whether or not the Young Turks actually ordered the massacre.
Save the resolution for a time when History has decided and when US service members aren’t in danger.
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This is the quote I was referring to.

Edit: Sorry I was just read a news article (newstatesman.com/200710230001) that got me riled up. I am sorry if I got a bit out of hand. I do honestly belive the time is always now; every waking moment, of everyday until Turkey accepts it.
 
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