Armenians

[pipper]

I have been interested in the Armenian church since learning of the genocide.

Is there an Armenian Catholic church? I know they are not recognised as Orthodox, since apparently they reject one of the very early councils. But I can not remember which, I just know it dealt with the nature of Christ.

Armenia was the first nation to become officially Christian as a nation.

 

[ConstantineTG]

Yes there is

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Armenian_Catholic_Church

And here’s a list of their parishes on their official website for the US and Canada

armeniancatholic.org/inside.php?lang=en&page_id=30401

 

[Ghosty]

I’m Armenian (by blood, not Church affiliation), so I suppose I should jump in this thread.

The Armenian Apostolic Church is an Oriental Orthodox Church, in Communion with the Coptic, Syriac, and Ethiopian Churches (and a few others). It is not in Communion with the Eastern Orthodox Churches. The Armenian Apostolic Church has very warm relations with the Catholic Church, and there are official agreements in place for the sharing of Sacraments.

That’s a very basic run-down, but I’ll see if there’s any other websites I can track down. There used to be a very good one maintained by a gentleman I knew on another forum, but I can’t find it now.

Peace and God bless!

 

[DrSharkey]

One of my close friends is Armenian, and a baptized member of the Armenian church. His family escaped from Lebanon 25 or so years ago, and came to the US. There are NO Armenian Orthodox churches within about 200 miles of where we live, so he attends Mass with us at our Western church.

 

[Alexander_Roman]

The Armenian Orthodox Church has more than one patriarchate. Its chief patriarch is the “Catholicos of Etchmiadzin” (where “Etchmiadzin” means “Descent of the Only-Begotten”). He spiritually governs all Armenians, regardless of where they reside throughout world. There is an Armenian patriarchate in Jerusalem (they make rosaries from the seeds of a tree to which, by tradition, Jesus was tied after He was arrested). Another is in Constantinople and another in Cilicia.

There is an Armenian Eastern Catholic Church whose religious Order of Mechitarists have earned deep esteem among all Armenians for their studious work on behalf of the Armenian patrimony.

There also were Armenian “Chalcedonian Orthodox” and the Orthodox Saint and Teacher of the Jesus Prayer, St Paisius Velichkovsky, numbered such Armenians among the ten cultural groups that comprised his disciples.

The Armenian Church has its own “Armenian Rite” which no other Church shares (conversely, the Byzantine Rite is shared among all the Eastern Orthodox Churches and a number of the Eastern Catholic Particular Churches). Mount Ararat is highly honoured by Armenians and the pointed hoods of Armenian monks are called “Ararats.” Their characteristic Armenian Cross is a “Khatchkar.”

They also keep, in their Local Church Canon of Scripture, the “Correspondence between Christ and King Abgar.”

This is the only known written correspondence ever recorded by Christ (our Lord did write on the ground during the judgement of the woman caught in adultery).

King Abgar of Edessa wrote to Christ and asked Him to come and heal him of his progressing blindness. He actually invites Christ to come and share his city with him! In response, our Lord writes him to say that, while He thanks him for his generosity, He cannot forsake His mission at Jerusalem. But, our Lord adds, after are fulfilled the things that are prophesied concerning Him, He would send His disciple to heal him (and this, of course, was St Jude who came with a cloth on which Our Lord’s Face had been imprinted miraculously - after touching Abgar’s face with it, Abgar was healed of blindness).

Alex

 

[malphono]

The Armenian Orthodox Church has more than one patriarchate. Its chief patriarch is the “Catholicos of Etchmiadzin.” He governs all Armenians, regardless of where they reside throughout world. There is an Armenian patriarchate in Jerusalem (they make rosaries from the seeds of a tree to which, by tradition, Jesus was tied after He was arrested). Another is in Constantinople and another in Cilicia.

Actually, the only two that are of juridical importance are Etchmiadzin (with its seat inside present-day Armenia) and Cilicia (with in seat in what was (prior to WWI) considered “Western Armenia” and now resident in Lebanon). (The other two (Jerusalem & Constantinople) are more titular than anything else, and are really Metropolitan Sees.) It’s interesting to note that the Catholicos of Cilicia of the Armenian Apostolic Church actually does have jurisdiction within his defined territories.

And of course the head of the Armenian CC is the Catholicos of Cilicia, who is also resident in Lebanon.

 

[Aramis]

The Armenian Rite includes both Armenian Apostolic Orthodox, and the Armenian Catholics.

The most interesting part is that the AAO don’t seem to consider the AC to have broken communion by also coming into union; several AC and AAO deacons have commented in various forae on being allowed to function in both. Even priestly concelebration is occasionally seen referenced on-line.

 

[Ghosty]

The Armenian Rite includes both Armenian Apostolic Orthodox, and the Armenian Catholics.

The most interesting part is that the AAO don’t seem to consider the AC to have broken communion by also coming into union; several AC and AAO deacons have commented in various forae on being allowed to function in both. Even priestly concelebration is occasionally seen referenced on-line.

Indeed, it’s a very strange relationship. I think it has a lot to do with the fact that Armenians have been divided into different locales and enclaves for so many centuries that it was not uncommon for one see to be “cut off” from the others to one degree or another. The Armenians also didn’t have the same level of dispute with Rome that the nearer Churches did, so “not with Rome” never really became much of an identifier for the Armenians even when it was a fact of ecclesial existence (the same thing can be seen with other “distant” Apostolic traditions, like the Indian and Assyrian Apostolic Christians).

There’s also the fact that “Armenian” is as much an identifier as “Apostolic”, and the two are so closely bound in the Armenian mindset, IMO, that petty jurisdictional distinctions are difficult to wedge in; just being “Armenian” is often good enough to count as legitimate.

On a side note, thanks to this thread I did some research and found out that there is a semi-regular Soorp Badarak (Divine Liturgy/Mass) near my house which I didn’t know about previously (I think it’s a fairly recent development). They’re having Liturgy this Sunday, and I plan to attend.

Peace and God bless!

 

[Ghosty]

I thought I’d post a follow-up to my going to an Armenian Divine Liturgy:

They treated me like a prodigal son come home, and I was promptly swarmed by little old Armenian ladies who wanted to know all the relevant details of my family history (the first woman I spoke to, upon learning that I’m of Armenian descent, promptly bear-hugged me before even learning my name :hug3.

Relevant to the “loose ecclesial barriers” we were talking about earlier, the pastor invited me to be an altar server despite this being my first visit to their community and my stating that I’m a Melkite Catholic. I said “I don’t even have the Liturgy memorized”, and his response was to mail me a DVD which details the Liturgy in English.

So yes, the Armenian Apostolic Church is quite warm in its relations with other Apostolic Christians. On another note, their Divine Liturgy is very similar in certain respects to the Tridentine Mass. When I had first encountered the Armenian Liturgy I had not yet experienced the Tridentine Mass, but now that I have fresh memories of both the similarities are quite striking. They also had a gilded icon of the Sacred Heart image for veneration upon entering the church. I think those interested in both the Traditional Latin and Eastern traditions would do well to check out the Armenian Church, whether Catholic or Orthodox.

Peace and God bless!

 

[Alexander_Roman]

Dear Ghosty,

You should become a Member of the Armenian Catholic Church, then, perhaps even a Mekhitarist!

FYI, I worked on legislation to declare April 2nd “Pope John Paul II Day” in Ontario - we had a petition in circulation.

Our Armenian friends had a community picnic in Toronto and actually passed around copies of the petition. I received several pages of good Armenian names in support of Pope John Paul Day!

When I once visited their main Church here, I walked through their parking lot. Lo and behold, each and every car of this Armenian Orthodox church had a rosary hanging from the rear-view mirror.

Very edifying - I guess they don’t mind it?

Alex

 

[AnthonyJ]

If a Roman Catholic attended an Armenian Apostolic Liturgy, would they be permitted to receive Holy Communion?

 

[malphono]

If a Roman Catholic attended an Armenian Apostolic Liturgy, would they be permitted to receive Holy Communion?

It depends. There is precedent (it’s not, as I mentioned in another thread here today, at all uncommon in the Middle East), and particularly so if one is being “sponsored” by a member of the parish. But it would be best to speak privately with the priest before Mass. He may or may not agree.

 

[Ghosty]

If a Roman Catholic attended an Armenian Apostolic Liturgy, would they be permitted to receive Holy Communion?

Talk to the priest before the Liturgy. There’s a decent chance that you will be allowed to receive. I didn’t even have to ask at our local Armenian Apostolic Church; the parish priest asked me to receive as a Catholic of Armenian decent.

Peace and God bless!

 

[Alexander_Roman]

The last time I was at an Armenian Orthodox Church, EVERY car in the parking lot (and I just had to look at every one there), had a (Latin) rosary dangling from the rear-view window.

Is this standard? Are there specifically Armenian prayer beads? Is it a case of them being used only by monastics?

Alex

 

[mardukm]

I had a friend a long time ago before I became Catholic who immigrated to the U.S. from Armenia. He was Armenian Apostolic. We always joked around about the Catholics. One time, in the midst of our usual jocularity, he said that all the rich Armenians go to the Catholic Church, and all the poor Armenians go to the Armenian Apostolic Church, regardless of Church affiliation.

I thought he was joking around.

I guess not.

Blessings,
Marduk

 

[Anastasia13]

The most interesting part is that the AAO don’t seem to consider the AC to have broken communion by also coming into union; several AC and AAO deacons have commented in various forae on being allowed to function in both. Even priestly concelebration is occasionally seen referenced on-line.

Why is there such a relationship here? It seems stronger than in other groups. Am I right about that or are there others that are so close? Why has this behavior not been stopped, or has it been stopped?

 

[Aramis]

Why is there such a relationship here? It seems stronger than in other groups. Am I right about that or are there others that are so close? Why has this behavior not been stopped, or has it been stopped?

No other such close relationships exist to my awareness.

The Chaldeans (Catholic) and the Assyrians (Orthodox) have a formal permission for the faithful to attend either side, but the Assyrians also commune catholics in general, as well as Anglicans, at least according to the patriarchal website last year.

I’ve read that the Syrians have a similar pastoral care agreement to admit each other.

 

[Paul_theApostle]

Do the Armenian Catholics accept the Council of Chalcedon or do they reject it like the Armenian Orthodox do?

Are the Armenian Catholics Monophosites or Miaphysites?

 

[RyanBlack]

Do the Armenian Catholics accept the Council of Chalcedon or do they reject it like the Armenian Orthodox do?

Are the Armenian Catholics Monophosites or Miaphysites?

Since they are in communion with the Bishop of Rome, Armenian Catholics accept the Council of Chalcedon.

 

[Paul_theApostle]

Since they are in communion with the Bishop of Rome, Armenian Catholics accept the Council of Chalcedon.

Yes my thoughts just told me the same thing as i was thinking about it

maybe it was a silly question