Armstrong Challenges White

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Randy_Carson said:
Given Mr. White’s own obsession with debating (estimates of his debates range from dozens into the hundreds) and his previous attempts to debate Mr. Armstrong in a live face-to-face format, the acidic response from Mr. White seems very curious indeed.
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I’d be interested to know if this is a job, or they’re doing it for the love of God, like does anyone know how much each earns ? sometimes that can tell the tale, and where their hearts are really at. $$$

As an outsider here, can anyone tell me ?
 
I haven’t followed enough of the current apologists’ controversies to comment intelligently on your post. Nonetheless, the cartoon set forth in the thread above is facially uncharitable.
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You are quite right but it isn’t suprising. The lack of comity that the apologist holds towards those who disagree with him isn’t anything new.
 
Randy_Carson said:
On Tuesday, March 6, 2007, Catholic apologist and author Dave Armstrong challenged Protestant apologist and author James White to a public online debate covering the proposed topic: "Theological Definition of “Christian” / Is Catholicism Properly Called “Christian”?

White’s response, given just 12 hours later, was as follows [Dave’s comments in blue]:

Would anyone, Catholic or Protestant, consider that a Christian response from Mr. White? :nope:

Given Mr. White’s own obsession with debating (estimates of his debates range from dozens into the hundreds) and his previous attempts to debate Mr. Armstrong in a live face-to-face format, the acidic response from Mr. White seems very curious indeed.
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No, Randy… Sounds more to me like someone is nervous of debating a strong thinker like Dave Armstrong. Someone should call this guy on the carpet on this response.

…Then again, Dave’s response isn’t exactly perfect either.
 
kaycee said:
Who is mocking who? I have’nt hosted mocking cartoons on my web site.
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You are mocking Armstrong. Yes, he did post that. You are better off to reserve your own judgement upon others. Least you be subject to be judged.
 
BrianH said:
What are you talking about Manny?
Why is it wrong for Kaycee to show something from a website but Randy is doing the SAME thing?
Explain that.
Both are showing quotes or cartoons but somehow Kaycee is wrong???:confused:
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Yes kaycee posted the pic originated from Armstrong. She also quoted Scripture mocking Armstrong for his drawings. I say, she should reserve her own judgement and use Scripture to justify her cause.
 
Oh c’mon. I have no idea what the nature of the dispute is between Messrs. Armstrong and White --whether one is wrong and the other is right or both are right or both are wrong-- but anyone who believes that this cartoon is the Christian way of dealing with the dispute is fooling themselves.
 
rr1213 said:
Oh c’mon. I have no idea what the nature of the dispute is between Messrs. Armstrong and White --whether one is wrong and the other is right or both are right or both are wrong-- but anyone who believes that this cartoon is the Christian way of dealing with the dispute is fooling themselves.
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White is wrong and so is Armstrong for drawing that cartoon. White’s debates with Armstrong were weak and he admitted defeat base from my understanding.

It wasn’t right for Armstrong to draw what he did, but it does have truth in it concerning White’s views on Catholicism.
 
Eireann said:
I’d be interested to know if this is a job, or they’re doing it for the love of God, like does anyone know how much each earns ? sometimes that can tell the tale, and where their hearts are really at. $$$

As an outsider here, can anyone tell me ?
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Both of these guys are professionals.
 
BrianH said:
What are you talking about Manny?
Why is it wrong for Kaycee to show something from a website but Randy is doing the SAME thing?
Explain that.
Both are showing quotes or cartoons but somehow Kaycee is wrong???:confused:
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You want to know what is wrong with kaycee’s comments.

Tell me is this done with Charity?
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kaycee:
Ya, Dave Armstrong is NOT obsessed with James White. Really!
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White has a succinct summary of his biography listed on his page;

“James White is the director of Alpha and Omega Ministries, a Christian apologetics organization based in Phoenix, Arizona. He is the author of more than twenty books, a professor, an accomplished debater, and an elder of the Phoenix Reformed Baptist Church.”

Does Armstrong have anything remotely similar (brief) on his? I tried to find a short bio within the many links of his personal page but it took so long I began to fall into a hypnagogic state.
 
Eireann said:
Sorry, but professional what ? :confused: so they earn a lot of money out of defending their side ?
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Full-time, professional (they do it for a living) authors and apologists.

“A lot of money”??? There’s not a huge market for Catholic apologetics, I’m afraid.
 
CommonMan said:
White has a succinct summary of his biography listed on his page;

“James White is the director of Alpha and Omega Ministries, a Christian apologetics organization based in Phoenix, Arizona. He is the author of more than twenty books, a professor, an accomplished debater, and an elder of the Phoenix Reformed Baptist Church.”

Does Armstrong have anything remotely similar (brief) on his? I tried to find a short bio within the many links of his personal page but it took so long I began to fall into a hypnagogic state.
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Did you notice the part of his biography that mentions his “doctorate” from a non-accredited school?

Education
B.A. Bible (Major in Biology, minor in Greek), Grand Canyon College, 1985.
M.A. Theology, Fuller Theological Seminary, 1989
Th.M. Apologetics, Faraston Seminary, 1995
Th.D., Apologetics, Columbia Evangelical Seminary, 1998
D.Min, Apologetics, Columbia Evangelical Seminary, 2002

At columbiaseminary.edu/aboutus/accreditation.html, I read the following from the President Rick “Josh” Walston’s statement on the “accreditation issue”:

“Columbia Evangelical Seminary is not accredited. However, as stated above, if you do not absolutely need a degree from an accredited school, why spend the extra money earning one when a degree from a non-accredited school may serve your purposes just as well?”

I understand distance learning. I also understand “not accredited”.

I guess one reason people should “spend the extra money” is to establish legitimate credibility in the eyes of the academic community.

Bona fides it’s called, I believe. Perhaps Latin is not one of Mr. White’s languages.
 
rr1213 said:
Yet, Fuller is certainly a well respected institution.
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So, one wonders why James makes such a big deal out of being called “Dr. White” when his doctorate is iffy at best? :tsktsk:
 
CommonMan said:
Does Armstrong have anything remotely similar (brief) on his? I tried to find a short bio within the many links of his personal page but it took so long I began to fall into a hypnagogic state.
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Always a negative remark with this poster…

Dave is a convert from Evangelicalism to Catholicism…what more does he need in the way of credentials? :clapping:

But I’ll make it easy for the “hypnagogically challenged”:

BRIEF RELIGIOUS BACKGROUND INFORMATION
Born July 30, 1958 in Detroit, Michigan. Raised Methodist; converted to non-denominational evangelicalism in 1977. During the 1980s, informally studied Christian apologetics and basic theology extensively, and was active in evangelistic, counter-cult and pro-life work, writing many “tracts” on these subjects. Church-supported missionary to college students from May 1985 until October 1989. Received into the Catholic Church on February 8, 1991 by Fr. John A. Hardon, S.J., after a year of intense study and discussion. Married to Judy Kozora (October 6, 1984) with four children: three boys and a girl.
FORMAL AND INFORMAL EDUCATION / PRESENT EMPLOYMENT
Bachelor of Arts, Sociology (cum laude) from Wayne State University, Detroit, 1982; a broad liberal arts education, including much philosophy and history, and a minor in psychology. Multiple thousands of hours studying theology, Church history, philosophy, and general Christian and Catholic apologetics since 1981 (no formal training in theology). I have about 2000 books in my library (mostly these same subjects).
Full-time author, apologist, evangelist, and free-lance writer (since December 2001).
 
A sociology bachelors degree and 2000 books in a library, Multiple thousands of hours studying theology (more than an hour per book) and no formal training in theology.

I others words he has a bachelors degree, in sociology.

His resume sounds like a script for a Holiday Inn Express commercial!🙂
 
Randy_Carson said:
Always a negative remark with this poster…

Dave is a convert from Evangelicalism to Catholicism…what more does he need in the way of credentials?
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Apparently none as long as he sides with Rome!

Give me a break Randy! You have created a small cottage industry out of slamming White and his doctorate and yet DM gets a pass with NO relevant degree!?!?

Have you done ANY investigating as to why he went to Columbia? Offcourse not!
It’s easier for you to just smear him than having to deal with his apologetics.

Lets see what he has to say about Columbia.

James R. White, Director of Alpha & Omega Ministries
"Outside of my local area, I could name a number of seminaries that attracted me. But, none had any programs to work with me where I was. Besides this, the cost of any such program was incredible. I recently added up the tuition costs to do a B.A., M.A., and Ph.D. program through a local Christian college and then a major conservative seminary: $92,000 to $98,000 in tuition alone. That adds up to nearly three years of the total operating budget of my entire ministry. I started to wonder again about how this related to Christian education, especially of ministers in the church. How can a man get such an education and then go out and pastor a small church with such indebtedness over his head? It didn’t (and still doesn’t) make sense.

I began writing books in 1990, and some of my books, like The King James Only Controversy, are being used as textbooks all across the nation. I was told by the head of the local branch of a fully accredited seminary that I should try to find someone to accept that book as my dissertation and be done with it. But I didn’t do so. ** I began to see that doing scholarship might just be a lot more important than the name on the school you went to, or whether that school could, or could not, get federal funds or loans**. I knew a number of Ph.D.'s who had never written a book that was read by more than a dozen people in their lives yet they were “scholars” and I wasn’t? Something wasn’t making sense. I began ordering doctoral dissertations for use in some of my writing projects and debates, and I discovered that most of these works, which had been accepted in fully accredited schools, were far shorter, and far less involved, than many of the books I was engaged in writing and publishing on a national level.

There was no “skating by” with Columbia Seminary, and as a result, I’ll pile up the work that I submitted to Columbia against any person who has a comparable degree from anywhere, with full confidence that no programs require more than Columbia did."

columbiaseminary.edu/recommendations/
 
It is very clear to me that , after reading one or two of the debates from daves site , that both of these gentlemen are highly talented individuals…White is obviously a man of great integrity and dave actually apologised on one occasion for ‘playing the man and not the ball’ during one of their more ‘heated’ exchanges ! I have no doubt that deep down they both respect each other !
Just a quick question…does anybody out there know whether White has ever debated Scott Hahn !!!
 
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