Arrogance

[ncgolf]

You guys really don’t have a strong argument. I’m a person who needs evidence to believe something exist and there still is no evidence. Sorry.

Hmmm 2000 years of Jewish history setting up the coming of Christ and 2000 years of Christianity post Christ … 4000 years of history. Do some homework on your side. There is plenty of evidence for a serious seeker but not much for a lip service seeker who comes with a pre-conceived notion What evidence do you want … the evidence you seek was like Thomas the apostle, also known as the doubter. Thomas was not in the room when Christ appeared to the apostles and he said he would not believe until he put a finger in his wounds. Guess what … he got to but for the rest of us that is not going to happen.

Remember you can be convicted on weighty circumstantial evidence so one can believe by the sheer weight of what has happened. Heck, people saw Jesus when he lived and did not believe. Mere evidence will not convince you.

 

[foundthelight]

You guys believe that this whole universe was created just for you? To me, this seems like the highest level of arrogance you can achieve. This ENTIRE place just for us?

No, we believe that the universe was created by God because He wanted to. We were created because He wanted to. Nothing was created for us. It was all for Him.

If you look at it, your faith is simply a means of comfort and illusionary hope. At least it seems this way to me.

I see a couple of possibilities.

One is that your assumption is correct that our hope is illusionary, that death is the end.

The second is that our faith is correct, that faith is not the end.

The second possibility has two real possibilities, that all go to paradise or only some.

Think about it.

 

[mercygate]

You guys really don’t have a strong argument. I’m a person who needs evidence to believe something exist and there still is no evidence. Sorry.

You toss a sophomoric allegation at this Forum, based on an appallingly superficial approach to the concepts of evidence, reason, and faith, don’t get an answer that in 25 words or less sums up the entire history of the human pursuit of Truth, and say “there still is no evidence.”

Sorry. The “evidence” is that you are not seeking answers but only to provoke. Did somebody say “arrogance?”

 

[Isa_Almisry]

You toss a sophomoric allegation at this Forum, based on an appallingly superficial approach to the concepts of evidence, reason, and faith, don’t get an answer that in 25 words or less sums up the entire history of the human pursuit of Truth, and say “there still is no evidence.”

Sorry. The “evidence” is that you are not seeking answers but only to provoke. Did somebody say “arrogance?”

Now you’ve done it.

Calling a spade a spade.

 

[VociMike]

You guys really don’t have a strong argument. I’m a person who needs evidence to believe something exist and there still is no evidence. Sorry.

So where’s your strong counter-argument that the universe came into existence on its own? If God didn’t create the universe then you must provide a counter-explanation that is more credible. What is that explanation? What is that “strong argument”?

To simply say “I don’t know how the universe came into being, I’m just sure it wasn’t God” is not a serious answer.

 

[maurin]

You guys really don’t have a strong argument. I’m a person who needs evidence to believe something exist and there still is no evidence. Sorry.

Must you always push a book off of a table as proof that it will fall to the ground each time, or do you think after 2 or three times of pushing that book and it falls to the floor that the book will do so each time forever? How strong of an argument do you need that the book will, each time, forever?

It’s kind of like that.

And I would think that it is not our onus to prove to you anything. The onus is yours. The best you can hope to find is reasons for our beliefs–it is up to you to consider seriously what is being said. Your conclusions are your own, you are entitled to them, and your valid conclusions will be respected.

Unlike the disrespect you are kind of showing here.

 

[Kay_Cee]

You guys believe that this whole universe was created just for you?

No, I don’t.

And I find it rather arrogant of you to assume I do.

 

[marymol]

Does not St.Paul say that ’ all things are for you…’ and that we belong to Christ …seen in that proportion, it is very truthful to see that the human person to whom The Father has given the intelligence to see and be awed by the vastness of His creation , thus appreciate even more the greatness of the incarnation and of His power …yes, the world made for us , to see the greatness of God …

As to the earth being a circle , remember hearing on a talk show how it is only in Hinduism and the scripture that the world is mentioned as sphere like - unsure if it is in relation to this passage ; as mentioned by a previous poster, circle can be seen as pointing to the spherical shape ( the original term might even be closer in meaning) ; and that talk show host then said that in Hinduim , a turtle is supposed to carry the sphere ( there is the serpent , ever trying to tell us ,how we are so dependant on our animal nature !)

As to the ’ earth being fixed’ - it truly is - on its axis , till that day , when the universe itself will be folded up !

The Church knows that an eternal soul , made to love and know God for all eternity, is lot more than this passing universe !

And there in may be another reason for its vastness …so that we would , with our sin hardened hearts can grasp better …what eternity is …

Now, The Church also recognise the existence of angels …of God… …and how ultimately ,all is for His Glory …that our generous Father, so lovingly share with us all, if we choose to let Him !

All praise and honor to Him, now and forever !

 

[w_stewart]

Is Earth flat?

Is the house you are living built upon a round surface or upon a flat earth?

 

[foundthelight]

**Isaiah 40:22 **
He sits enthroned above the circle of the earth,
and its people are like grasshoppers.
He stretches out the heavens like a canopy,
and spreads them out like a tent to live in.

Circles are flat

How could Isaiah have known that the earth had the appearance of a circle unless God or an angel told him?

 

[Ridgerunner]

“Arrogance” has meaning only relative to something else. So, believers are arrogant relative to what, or whom?

 

[Nicene]

You guys really don’t have a strong argument. I’m a person who needs evidence to believe something exist and there still is no evidence. Sorry.

And yet dollars to donuts you believe in the big bang, life on other planets, and tachyons.

The true atheist making you above assertion must reject these as they are only theories.

Theory and evidence are not the same.

Peace and God Bless
Nicene

 

[mercygate]

How could Isaiah have known that the earth had the appearance of a circle unless God or an angel told him?

Be careful on this line of thinking, guys. The Egyptians had measured the circumference of the earth, knew it was a sphere, and got the measurement right within 1000 miles by the year 2400 B.C. Trigonometry.

 

[Leopard]

…Circles are flat…

Only in a Euclidian universe.

…The Earth can’t be moved? So the sun must circle Earth.

Depends on your point of reference.

 

[Philthy]

I have some questions

Yes, but you have not articulated them very well and have gone on to argue that we have no “proof” and that you need “evidence”. I find your questions lacking, but I will answer each one and for any answer you require “evidence” just let me know.

You guys believe that this whole universe was created just for you?

No we do not.

To me, this seems like the highest level of arrogance you can achieve.

This is not a question, it is an opinion which, BTW, you have no evidence to hold.

This ENTIRE place just for us?

Again, no it is not.

Then you cloud this pride with false messages of love and peace just so it doesn’t look like your religion is an ego-boosting tool.

Once more, this is not a question, and requires no answer. Your attempt at forming an argument to support your conclusion that Christianity is an “ego boosting tool” is weak by any standard. Where is your strong, evidence based argument for your contention that the Christian message of love and peace is false?I cant imagine how you can expect a “strong argument” supported by “evidence” from us when this intellectually inept arrogant articulation is what you have offered us. - honestly.

If you look at it, your faith is simply a means of comfort and illusionary hope. At least it seems this way to me.

Again, not a question. Our faith does provide comfort and hope. Can you provide a strong argument with evidence which explains why illusory hope would be attractive to humans and what we would gain by propogating it?

Also, why does the Bible say Earth is a flat circle that doesn’t move, while the Sun rotates around it?

Because it was written a very long time ago and that was the understanding of the author. It is irrelevent to the point the author was making, however and is pointless in discussing.

I read some passages and this confused me.

This is the most impressive and encouraging sentence of your entire post - you recognize your own limitations. It is not a question, however. I recommend you stop reading the Old Testament and jump right in to the New Testament. You will find it a lot less confusing.

You guys really don’t believe that do you?

No, we dont believe that.

If you have any additional questions or concerns, please be sure to actually ask them so that I can address each and every one to your satisfaction.

 

[mercygate]

Yes, but you have not articulated them very well and have gone on to argue that we have no “proof” and that you need “evidence”. I find your questions lacking, but I will answer each one and for any answer you require “evidence” just let me know.

No we do not.

This is not a question, it is an opinion which, BTW, you have no evidence to hold.

Again, no it is not.

Once more, this is not a question, and requires no answer. Your attempt at forming an argument to support your conclusion that Christianity is an “ego boosting tool” is weak by any standard. Where is your strong, evidence based argument for your contention that the Christian message of love and peace is false?I cant imagine how you can expect a “strong argument” supported by “evidence” from us when this intellectually inept arrogant articulation is what you have offered us. - honestly.

Again, not a question. Our faith does provide comfort and hope. Can you provide a strong argument with evidence which explains why illusory hope would be attractive to humans and what we would gain by propogating it?

Because it was written a very long time ago and that was the understanding of the author. It is irrelevent to the point the author was making, however and is pointless in discussing.

This is the most impressive and encouraging sentence of your entire post - you recognize your own limitations. It is not a question, however. I recommend you stop reading the Old Testament and jump right in to the New Testament. You will find it a lot less confusing.

No, we dont believe that.

If you have any additional questions or concerns, please be sure to actually ask them so that I can address each and every one to your satisfaction.

Ah ha. Ninety percent of getting the answer to a question is in the ability to formulate a question that solicits a matching answer. But the OP is a kid and has not yet been trained in logic.

 

[Gottle_of_Geer]

I have some questions

You guys believe that this whole universe was created just for you? To me, this seems like the highest level of arrogance you can achieve. This ENTIRE place just for us? Then you cloud this pride with false messages of love and peace just so it doesn’t look like your religion is an ego-boosting tool. If you look at it, your faith is simply a means of comfort and illusionary hope. At least it seems this way to me.

It wasn’t created for us.​

It was created for the Greater Glory of God. It has no meaning without Him. Nor does anything whatever in it. Visible, or invisible.

And this interpretation of the universe is derived from the OT & the NT.

You’re right - it is arrogant to think that the universe is made for man.

Also, why does the Bible say Earth is a flat circle that doesn’t move, while the Sun rotates around it? I read some passages and this confused me. You guys really don’t believe that do you?

Simple - the OT book in question is written by men who believed that. The trustworthiness of the Bible does not mean that Jesus, or His Apostles (in the NT), or the composers of the OT, were endowed with infallibly true knowledge about the constitution of the universe or even the world. It does mean that they thought in the same categories as their contemporaries - that they were fully men of their time.​

And their ideas about geography were limited by their time, culture, & everything else that makes human knowledge incomplete, limited, capable of improvement. There was no reason why it should not have been. If anything, 20th-century geographical, astronomical, & other knowledge would have made their works meaningless not to us, but to every generation until our own. Those who want the Biblical authors to have the same knowledge as we do, & to be totally inerrant from our POV, make them utterly useless to everyone earlier - including their own contemporaries.

Isaiah was speaking to eighth-century men of Jerusalem - not to 20th-century Italians or Americans. So he spoke as his contemporaries did, not as we might: for he was not speaking to us at all, but to them. Therefore, he (like the other composers of the Biblical books) is often “wrong” from the POV of those who are arrogant enough to assume he was writing for them, & not for his own people in his & their time. That’s why there are those people who talk about The United States in Prophecy

Do we believe that that astronomy taken for granted as valid in the OT is valid now ? Of course not. What a question ! Not all Christians are lobotomised, brain-dead Stepford types.

Hope that helps.

 

[YADA]

How must I approach Scripture? The literal meaning is not correct? Then how can I trust this to be the word of God?

The scriptures are “Sciene Text Books” When you enter a library, there are many different books written at different times for different audiences and for different purposes …

Scripture is a compilation of the writings of people inspired by God. The scripitures are God’s revelation to man … they are writings about the relationship between the Creator and the Created … while there may be some historical elements and some things that touch upon the realities of time and space, the physical world etc. that is not the purpose …

FOrexample, when you read the story of creation or the passage you cited and attempt to ‘scientifically’ understand it … you have missed the point and you will feel at a loss … but the failure is on your use of the work, not the writer nor the God that inspired him…

 

[Charlie_Zeaiter]

You guys really don’t have a strong argument. I’m a person who needs evidence to believe something exist and there still is no evidence. Sorry.

Hi Flapneck,

Would you mind giving us your thoughts on prophecy? I found prophecy to be the evidence I need.