Article about belief in no afterlife until later in Judaism

[thunderbolt94]

Hello,

I recently came upon this blogpost that makes the claim that belief in an afterlife did not develop until later in Judaism.

Here is the blogpost:

religionatthemargins.com/2011/08/dead-men-dont-talk-loud-enough/

The author is a person by the name of Thom Stark, and I’ve only heard of him recently, but he’s made many claims in the past and gone as far as to claim that the early NT writers did not believe that Jesus physically resurrected, but was a spiritual resurrection.

Are any of the claims made in this blog post accurate? Is he only partially right? Can I trust this source?

If anyone can help me out, I would greatly appreciate it.

 

[BertBlyleven]

Jews that only accept the Torah as Scripture [generally] do not believe in an afterlife. I am friends with several of them.

 

[GEddie]

Hello,

I recently came upon this blogpost that makes the claim that belief in an afterlife did not develop until later in Judaism.

Here is the blogpost:

religionatthemargins.com/2011/08/dead-men-dont-talk-loud-enough/

The author is a person by the name of Thom Stark, and I’ve only heard of him recently, but he’s made many claims in the past and gone as far as to claim that the early NT writers did not believe that Jesus physically resurrected, but was a spiritual resurrection.

Are any of the claims made in this blog post accurate? Is he only partially right? Can I trust this source?

If anyone can help me out, I would greatly appreciate it.

Biblical scholarship generally holds that it was not until the Babylonian captivity that afterlife became a part of Jewish belief. Even today, human eschatology is at best a secondary issue in Judaism.

However, he’s wrong about the NT. Too many references to HANDS, FEET and nail marks, etc, for the NT not to be about a BODILY Resurrection!

ICXC NIKA!

 

[Joe_Kelley]

Biblical scholarship generally holds that it was not until the Babylonian captivity that afterlife became a part of Jewish belief. Even today, human eschatology is at best a secondary issue in Judaism.

However, he’s wrong about the NT. Too many references to HANDS, FEET and nail marks, etc, for the NT not to be about a BODILY Resurrection!

ICXC NIKA!

We can thank St Thomas for checking that out for us.

 

[Warrenton]

The author is a person by the name of Thom Stark, and I’ve only heard of him recently, but he’s made many claims in the past and gone as far as to claim that the early NT writers did not believe that Jesus physically resurrected, but was a spiritual resurrection.

Are any of the claims made in this blog post accurate? Is he only partially right? Can I trust this source?

This kind of thing is not new. First, let’s look at the purpose of the argument: if there is no salvation, then the Bible is solely a racial salvation: it’s a blueprint for the continuation of Jews. That in turn limits the appeal of religion, and reduces it to mere nationalism. Who cares if the Jews survive or not, if you are not a Jew? Without universality, there is not need to believe in anything, let alone God.

A proper understanding of the argument’s purpose will help us grapple with contentions in a better light.

The article’s premise attempts to say that the dead must not have an afterlife because King David says the deceased don’t do anything after death. Basically, the author is putting himself in King David’s place, and saying that King David should have talked about afterlife if he believed it. But why?

That is like saying the old monks should not have carved skulls if they believed in resurrection, or that Death should not have been characterized as the Grim Reaper. Everybody knows that death is frightening and final. King David knew it, he faced it head on with Goliath. He also knew that Goliath stayed dead, as we all will, in human terms. The purpose of the psalm is to exhort the living to worship - it’s too late to gain your soul after you die: life is the race we run. King David’s contrast is not between resurrection or none, it is between other religions that say our life is but an illusion, or that we get reincarnated for a second go. He says life is real, that worship is real, that worship makes us alive. The author of the article may be adept at ancient language, may know a thousand facts about ancient pottery, architecture and clothes, but he lacks imagination and understanding.

The other thing to remember is that the ancient Jews did not rely on scripture for everything they knew: they carried the memory of it from the first people, from the patriarchs themselves. There are not many instructions on how to cook in the Bible, or how to keep sand out of your garments, or how to milk a goat. They knew that stuff, like we know how to look both ways before crossing the street, or push the buttons on a phone.

Query: if the afterlife was such a radical notion, why didn’t the Jews say “there ain’t no such thing” in the New Testament.

 

[GEddie]

That is like saying the old monks should not have carved skulls if they believed in resurrection, or that Death should not have been characterized as the Grim Reaper. Everybody knows that death is frightening and final…
Query: if the afterlife was such a radical notion, why didn’t the Jews say “there ain’t no such thing” in the New Testament.

Actually, one major faction in Judaism (the Sadduccees) did indeed deny an afterlife, and took this up with our LORD. They controlled the temple, so there were a lot who shared that belief.

ICXC NIKA

 

[Warrenton]

Actually, one major faction in Judaism (the Sadduccees) did indeed deny an afterlife, and took this up with our LORD. They controlled the temple, so there were a lot who shared that belief.

ICXC NIKA

There are Christians who deny the afterlife, too. I question seriously how anyone knows how many Jews shared such outrageous beliefs.

Abraham was going to sacrifice his son just to have more kids? God told Noah how to build an ark, and fill it with animals, but nothing about salvation?

Saul consulted the the witch of Endor because he thought there was no spirit she could reach?

Nobody really got the point about Jonah and the whale?

To me, this (i.e., the article) is just the kind of scholarship that is heavy on facts, often ones impossible to refute without three doctoral degrees, all gleaned with a view to spreading ignorance, not truth. The power of integration is inversely proportional to the power of data accretion.

Can you please give me a reference to the Sadducees disputation with the Lord? Thanks !

 

[Joe_Kelley]

…

Can you please give me a reference to the Sadducees disputation with the Lord? Thanks !

Matthew 22:23-

23* * The same day Sadducees came to him, who say that there is no resurrection; and they asked him a question, …

Mark 12:18

18* And Sadducees came to him, who say that there is no resurrection; and they asked him a question, saying,…

Luke 20:27

27* * There came to him some Sadducees, those who say that there is no resurrection…

Acts 4:1

1 And as they were speaking to the people, the priests and the captain of the temple and the Sadducees came upon them, 2 annoyed because they were teaching the people and proclaiming in Jesus the resurrection from the dead…

Acts 23:6-8

6 But when Paul perceived that one part were Sadducees and the other Pharisees, he cried out in the council, “Brethren, I am a Pharisee, a son of Pharisees; with respect to the hope and the resurrection of the dead I am on trial.” 7 And when he had said this, a dissension arose between the Pharisees and the Sadducees; and the assembly was divided. 8 For the Sadducees say that there is no resurrection, nor angel, nor spirit; but the Pharisees acknowledge them all. …

 

[meltzerboy]

Jews that only accept the Torah as Scripture [generally] do not believe in an afterlife. I am friends with several of them.

I wonder who these friends of yours are, because virtually all Orthodox Jews today who follow the Torah believe in an afterlife. It is one of the thirteen principles of faith formulated by Maimonides. In fact, it is some of the less orthodox Jews, particularly Reform Jews, who may have doubts about an afterlife. (As a whole, many Humanistic Jews go one step further and have doubts about the existence of G-d.)

 

[meltzerboy]

Hello,

I recently came upon this blogpost that makes the claim that belief in an afterlife did not develop until later in Judaism.

Here is the blogpost:

religionatthemargins.com/2011/08/dead-men-dont-talk-loud-enough/

The author is a person by the name of Thom Stark, and I’ve only heard of him recently, but he’s made many claims in the past and gone as far as to claim that the early NT writers did not believe that Jesus physically resurrected, but was a spiritual resurrection.

Are any of the claims made in this blog post accurate? Is he only partially right? Can I trust this source?

If anyone can help me out, I would greatly appreciate it.

Discussions about the afterlife do not occupy a large role in Judaism as they do in Christianity and Islam. There is more room for speculation; however, Jews are not supposed to focus heavily on this subject. Rather, they are to concentrate on the present life, doing good deeds for others, and loving G-d. The early Pharisees did believe in an afterlife, yet I’m not certain whether they held any ideas regarding what form it would take, whether physical or spiritual, whether the soul would exist with consciousness or without. The contemporary Sadducees, however, rejected the whole idea of the afterlife. (I believe the Essenes sided with the Pharisees on this issue.) Present-day Torah Judaism is in the tradition of the Pharisees and believes in the afterlife. The Tanakh (Hebrew Bible) itself speaks more clearly about an afterlife in the later chapters than it does in the earlier ones. Orthodox Jews follow this, as well as the promise of a resurrection, which is one of the Thirteen Principles of Faith written by Maimonides. Nonetheless, other branches of modern Judaism–Reform Judaism, for example–are divided with regard to whether or not there is a heavenly world beyond this one.

 

[Joe_Kelley]

I recall reading a piece by a Jew [probably Orthodox] who stated that they deemphasize the afterlife because one should be acting to please the Lord because He is Lord; not out of hope for future reward. I can see merit in this. However, it is a goal for the holiest. Christianity is directed to helping the weakest.