Article about sex after death in islam

[Munawar]

quote=stillsmallvoice
“The Jews say Ezra is the son of Allah”
This is a lie, as are these . What say you?
[/quote]

Hello Stillsmallvoice,

The above line possibly does not apply to you. There have been many denominations of Jews in the past, and many today. What type of Judaism are you speaking of?

Secondly - saying “The Jews say Ezra is the son of Allah” can imply many things, the worst being they they literally say it, the other being they treat him as such.

stillsmallvoice:

They worship their rabbis and their monks.

In Islam, to make prayer to a person, is to worship them. In Islam, if a man/woman has to talk to a person to recieve forgiveness, then they are worshiping that person.

In Islam this is “Shirk” - belief in Partners with God. In Islam, every person speaks directly to God.

 

[Munawar]

iamrefreshed:

Elizabeth,

I have read a majority of books you listed. I would also suggest to anyone interested to read anything by *Ibn Warraq. *

Hi Iamrefreshed,

IF you’re going to read on a topic, I would recommend you read from both sides. People like Daniel Pipes, Stephen Emerson, Robert Morey, Ibn Warraq are very Anti-Islam.

It’s akin to understanding Jewish history by reading Nazi History books. Not a very objective view point.

I recommend books by middle of the road authors like Karen Armstrong and John Esposito.

 

[Munawar]

ElizabethJoy:

t’s a very carnal “religion” for good reason. Islam was founded by an illiterate man who was suddenly flooded with riches after having grown up poor. When his rich wife died, he proved himself a licentious libertine, taking a wife as young as six years old, one fifth of the slaves captured in the conquering of a city, and at least 16 wives officially “recognized” by Allah. (these wives were actually “given” to Mohammed directly by Allah in appreciation for his dedication)

Hi Elizabeth,

Please excuse me saying this, but you’ve misunderstood almost everything about Islam. I would recommend you re-learn Islam from unbiased sources. Thanks!

Munawar

 

[hlgomez]

Munawar,

Why is it that in most Arab countries the Christian religion is suppressed and persecuted? If you go to countries where there is democracy, there is almost no prohibition of practicing Islam or any other religions.

Is your religion afraid of Christians who will proclaim the Gospels and eventually free them from slavery of Satan? We’re not throwing stones on efigies of Satan, because for us Christians, Satan is not an efigy but an evil spirit which can only be conquered by Christ.
Pio

 

[iamrefreshed]

Munawar:

Hi Iamrefreshed,

IF you’re going to read on a topic, I would recommend you read from both sides. People like Daniel Pipes, Stephen Emerson, Robert Morey, Ibn Warraq are very Anti-Islam.

It’s akin to understanding Jewish history by reading Nazi History books. Not a very objective view point.

I recommend books by middle of the road authors like Karen Armstrong and John Esposito.

I respectfully disagree with your analogy. Ibn Warraq is an excellent source to understand Islam. He was Muslim. You may choose to refute him as a source because his opinion differs from yours?

I think it unfair of you to use the word Nazi’s in this discussion. I believe you may be, intentionally or not, attempting to deflect the conversation off-subject?

 

[Munawar]

iamrefreshed:

I respectfully disagree with your analogy. Ibn Warraq is an excellent source to understand Islam. He was Muslim. You may choose to refute him as a source because his opinion differs from yours?

I think it unfair of you to use the word Nazi’s in this discussion. I believe you may be, intentionally or not, attempting to deflect the conversation off-subject?

Hello Iamrefreshed,

If you reread what I wrote, you’ll see that I didn’t refute Ibn Warraq, nor did I tell you to stop reading him. I said you should read from both sides to get a balanced view.

Munawar

 

[Saint_Andrew]

Dear All,

We shall wait and see when our earthly lives are over. I read some of that article but not all of it. We all shall know what will happen to our souls.

God Bless you all.

Saint Andrew.

 

[chb03c]

Munawar:

In Islam, to make prayer to a person, is to worship them. In Islam, if a man/woman has to talk to a person to recieve forgiveness, then they are worshiping that person.

In Islam this is “Shirk” - belief in Partners with God. In Islam, every person speaks directly to God.

Hello Munawar,

I am trying to understand why in the Islamic belief that when someone “talks/prayer” to someone that is considered worship.

On another note thank you very much for coming to this forum to answer our questions.

God Bless

 

[Munawar]

hlgomez:

Munawar,

Why is it that in most Arab countries the Christian religion is suppressed and persecuted? If you go to countries where there is democracy, there is almost no prohibition of practicing Islam or any other religions.

Is your religion afraid of Christians who will proclaim the Gospels and eventually free them from slavery of Satan? We’re not throwing stones on efigies of Satan, because for us Christians, Satan is not an efigy but an evil spirit which can only be conquered by Christ.

Hello HLGomez,

There is no nation on Earth that follows Islamic Law. It’s like calling America a Catholic Nation.

Countries like Saudia Arabia are run by despotic Monarchies, whose only goal is to retain power. They pay lip service to Islam, and throw a bone to the masses once in a while by appeasing the Masses.

So - Why are Christians persecuted in Muslim lands? There are over 11 Million Christians in Egypt as well as in Syria and Palestine. Traditionally Christians lived in peace and security in Muslim lands.

Islam has traditioanlly been very fair to Christians and Jews in Muslim lands. In Islamic law, Christians can practise their religion and run their churches with no suppression by the government. If there are regions where Christians are persecuted, then its an unfortunate circumstance of culture or else Christians breaking the law.

hlgomez:

Is your religion afraid of Christians who will proclaim the Gospels and eventually free them from slavery of Satan? We’re not throwing stones on efigies of Satan, because for us Christians, Satan is not an efigy but an evil spirit which can only be conquered by Christ.

Islam is not scared of Christianity. Most missionary’s have the problem that generally Muslims will not convert to Islam, but the opposite happens quite frequently.

As for the effigies - I assume you are speaking about the rites of Hajj. This is simply a re-enactment of what the Prophet Abraham did.

 

[Munawar]

chb03c:

Hello Munawar,

I am trying to understand why in the Islamic belief that when someone “talks/prayer” to someone that is considered worship.

On another note thank you very much for coming to this forum to answer our questions.

Hello Chb03c,

The pleasure is mine to be invited to this forum. I visit Christianity.com once in a while, and they aren’t quite as pleasant over there.

Regarding your question - What I meant was, in Islam, we do not go to someone and say, “Please ask God to forgive me”, or we don’t make prayer to someone who has died, “Oh so-and-so, please ask God to forgive me”. In Islam, this is considered associating partners with him.

 

[iamrefreshed]

Munawar:

Hello Iamrefreshed,

If you reread what I wrote, you’ll see that I didn’t refute Ibn Warraq, nor did I tell you to stop reading him. I said you should read from both sides to get a balanced view.

Munawar

May I ask if you have read Pipes, Warraq, Lewis and Emerson? If so, what, in particular, did you find unbalanced?

 

[chb03c]

Munawar:

Hello Chb03c,

The pleasure is mine to be invited to this forum. I visit Christianity.com once in a while, and they aren’t quite as pleasant over there.

Regarding your question - What I meant was, in Islam, we do not go to someone and say, “Please ask God to forgive me”, or we don’t make prayer to someone who has died, “Oh so-and-so, please ask God to forgive me”. In Islam, this is considered associating partners with him.

Munawar,

Thank you very much for your responce. However I am still confused as to why this is not allowed in your belief. My understanding is if i were to ask my brother to pray there is no harm in doing that. So why would it be so wrong to have someone pray for me. Even though I would be praying for myself as well. (The more the marrier)

Does that make any sence?

God Bless

 

[Munawar]

iamrefreshed:

May I ask if you have read Pipes, Warraq, Lewis and Emerson? If so, what, in particular, did you find unbalanced?

Hi Iamrefreshed,

I have read Pipes, pieces of Warraq, and Stephen Emersen.

I found Warraq to use particular historical examples as proof that Islam is corrupt. Ie. Akin to me saying Christianity is corrupt because of the Spanish Inquisition.

Daniel Pipes and Emerson put the spin on almost everything in Islam. Anything that is culturally jarring is a target (ie. 4 wives etc). That applies to Morey also. You’ll note the influx of their books after 9/11.

Munawar

 

[Munawar]

chb03c:

Thank you very much for your responce. However I am still confused as to why this is not allowed in your belief. My understanding is if i were to ask my brother to pray there is no harm in doing that. So why would it be so wrong to have someone pray for me. Even though I would be praying for myself as well. (The more the marrier)

Hi Chb03c,

In Islam, it is fine if your brother prays for you. But it is a problem if only your brother can pray for you, and you are unable to pray for yourself. This would be called an intercessor.

Islamically, the other problem is if your brother is dead, and you pray to him to pray for you. Since he is dead, he has no ability to make prayer for you.

 

[iamrefreshed]

Munawar:

Hi Iamrefreshed,

I have read Pipes, pieces of Warraq, and Stephen Emersen.

I found Warraq to use particular historical examples as proof that Islam is corrupt. Ie. Akin to me saying Christianity is corrupt because of the Spanish Inquisition.

Daniel Pipes and Emerson put the spin on almost everything in Islam. Anything that is culturally jarring is a target (ie. 4 wives etc). That applies to Morey also. You’ll note the influx of their books after 9/11.

Munawar

I believe their books became more popular after 9/11. There was not necessarily an influx of the books, just more interested readers.

Munawar you seem like a genuinely nice person. I will remember you in my prayers. I hope your interest in visiting our Catholic site is to learn more about our religion and how it may affect your life rather than just an attempt to proselytize. If it is please remember how civilly you were treated and be certain to defend Catholics doing the same in your Muslim chatrooms. May you find a life of peace through God.

 

[stillsmallvoice]

Hi all!

Munawar, you posted:

You have to understand that the Quran speaks to all of humanity. From the basest to the highest elevated. Each level requires different ways of encouragement. What encourages a monk, does not encourage a prostitute.

1. What about encouraging the prostitute to stop being a prostitute and to spiritually elevate herself instead of dumbing things down to her degraded state?
2. Are you saying that Islam adapts itself to meet individual standards? Shouldn’t believers (in any monotheistic faith) adapt and mold themselves to meet their respective faith’s standards?

I thank you (really!) for your replies & I mean you no hostility (God forbid!) but I stand on my above statements:

Humanity is perfectly capable of appreciating the rewards of the world-to-come/Paradise/Heaven (call it what you will) in abstract, spiritual terms alone. (Orthodox) Judaism and Roman Catholicism are living proofs of this. In fact, as far as I can recall, expressing the rewards of the world-to-come/Paradise/Heaven (call it what you will) in finite, physical, downright earthly terms is a pagan notion (i.e. the eating, drinking & brawling of the Norse Valhalla or the relaxed eating & drinking of the Greek Elysian Fields)…It is an appeal to the base and lowest-common-denominator rather than to the spiritually uplifting.

I posted:

I have one other, entirely unrelated, question. I have Dawood’s translation of the Quran. The Sura “Repentance” says (9:30):

The Jews say Ezra is the son of Allah, while the Christians say the Messiah isd the son of Allah…They worship their rabbis and their monks.

This

The Jews say Ezra is the son of Allah

is a lie, as are these

They worship their rabbis and their monks.

.

What say you?

You replied:

The above line possibly does not apply to you. There have been many denominations of Jews in the past, and many today. What type of Judaism are you speaking of?

The above definitely does not apply to me or to any other Jew, now or ever. Of the many denominations that have existed in the past & of the several that exist today, none have ever deified Ezra or viewed/venerated him as

the son of Allah

. As I said, the contention that

The Jews say Ezra is the son of Allah

is a lie/incorrect/wrong, period.

You also replied:

In Islam, to make prayer to a person, is to worship them. In Islam, if a man/woman has to talk to a person to recieve forgiveness, then they are worshiping that person.

We do not worship our rabbis. Talking to a rabbi is not required in order for a Jew to receive forgiveness and never has been. Rabbis teach and instruct, period.

I, a Jew, contend that the Quran has a mistaken view of Judaism; i.e, its views on Judaism do not jibe with Jews’ views on Judaism.

You posted:

Islam has traditioanlly been very fair to Christians and Jews in Muslim lands.

As long as we recognize our second-class status as dhimmi, which seems very similar to the old Jim Crow laws in the US south or apartheid in South Africa. I wonder if D.F. Malan, Henrik Vervoed, et. al. (the designers of apartheid), were not just a tiny bit inspired by Islam’s concept of dhimmi (en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dhimmi).

Be well!

ssv

 

[chb03c]

Munawar:

Hi Chb03c,

In Islam, it is fine if your brother prays for you. But it is a problem if only your brother can pray for you, and you are unable to pray for yourself. This would be called an intercessor.

Islamically, the other problem is if your brother is dead, and you pray to him to pray for you. Since he is dead, he has no ability to make prayer for you.

Hello Munawar,

how do you know they have no ability to make prayer for me?

God Bless,

 

[Munawar]

1) What about encouraging the prostitute to stop being a prostitute and to spiritually elevate herself instead of dumbing things down to her degraded state?

Hello Stiismallvoice,

The conversation we are having is about the concept of Paradise in Islam. Never did I suggest that Islam does not encourage people to do good in other ways. This is only one aspect.

People were saying, “Islamic Heaven is an orgy”. I’m simply explaining why it seems that way. Yes, base people are encouraged to do better, for more then just getting in Heaven, but that is outside the scope of this conversation.

stillsmallvoice:

1. Are you saying that Islam adapts itself to meet individual standards? Shouldn’t believers (in any monotheistic faith) adapt and mold themselves to meet their respective faith’s standards?

Of course it does. But its descriptions of Paradise are explained so every type of Human will something they covet there.

stillsmallvoice:

As long as we recognize our second-class status as dhimmi, which seems very similar to the old Jim Crow laws in the US south or apartheid in South Africa. I wonder if D.F. Malan, Henrik Vervoed, et. al. (the designers of apartheid)

The designers of apartheid kept their subjects like animals. The Dhimmi under Islamic Shariah is anything but.

A Dhimmi can vote, hold government jobs, can retain his name, and lineage. He is allowed to practise his religion, he can worship in his church. He does NOT have to join the army. He does not have to defend the state. He can hold regular jobs and earn cash. His weight in court is as high as that of a Muslim.

No Stillsmallvoice, the Dhimmi is not a second class citizen. He is a citizen of a Muslim state. His role though is different. The only thing a dhimmi cannot do, that a Muslim can do, is to rule the city. Everything else is possible.

Question for you - How were non-Christians treated under Christian rule? How did the Jews fair in Europe from 0BC to 1943?

Munawar

 

[Asking]

What happens to women in paradise? that article only talks about what happens to men

 

[hlgomez]

Islamically, the other problem is if your brother is dead, and you pray to him to pray for you. Since he is dead, he has no ability to make prayer for you.

Isn’t Abraham’s God the God of the living and not of the dead?

We believe Abraham is in heaven and can pray for us, and so do the numerous saints who are in heaven.

Pio