Article for TC and modern Catholics

[palmas85]

Martin Luther had many fine points that were mostly true. He never intended to seperate from the church. i have to post more later I am at school.

Many fine points that were mostly true OK. I’ll bite on this one, what were they?

Stopping the sale of indulgences, yes good point
Laymen allowed to read scripture, yes good point

What else??

Maybe his opinion of the papacy as illustrated in the following:

Hence it follows that all things which the Pope, from a power so false, mischievous, blasphemous, and arrogant, has done and undertaken. have been and still are purely diabolical affairs and transactions. OR PERHAPS

This teaching shows forcefully that the Pope is the very Antichrist, who has exalted himself above, and opposed himself against Christ OR MAYBE

. Yea, if Christ himself were again on earth, and should preach, without all doubt the pope would crucify him again.** OR**

Consequently you will find that, in my earlier writings, I most
humbly conceded many important things to the pope, things which I later detested and now detest as being the greatest blasphemy and abomination. OR PERHAPS

Good-bye in the Lord, dear reader, and pray that the word may
increase against Satan, because he is powerful and evil. And now
he has become extremely vicious and savage because he knows that he has only a short time and that the kingdom of his pope is endangered. OR AGAIN

Your see, however, which is called the Court of Rome, and which
neither you nor any man can deny to be more corrupt than any
Babylon or Sodom, and quite, as I believe, of a lost, desperate,
and hopeless impiety, this I have verily abominated, and have
felt indignant that the people of Christ should be cheated under
your name and the pretext of the Church of Rome; OR

Is it not true that there is nothing under the vast heavens more
corrupt, more pestilential, more hateful, than the Court of Rome?
She incomparably surpasses the impiety of the Turks, so that in
very truth she, who was formerly the gate of heaven, is now a
sort of open mouth of hell, and such a mouth as, under the urgent
wrath of God, cannot be blocked up; one course alone being left
to us wretched men: to call back and save some few, if we can,
from that Roman gulf

Or was it when he married a nun while he was still an ordained Priest? Or when he found wives for other Priests from among the ranks of Nuns who had deserted their convents?

Yes from everything I have read about old Martin he most certainly did have the best interest of the Church and of the Holy Father in his heart.

 

[PJM]

Maybe his opinion of the papacy as illustrated in the following:

Hence it follows that all things which the Pope, from a power so false, mischievous, blasphemous, and arrogant, has done and undertaken. have been and still are purely diabolical affairs and transactions.

My dear friend, you sound a bit bitter, cynical even If you think the Pope (past, present or future are perfect) you overlook that they too are simply human! They have a free will and intellect.

Jesus NEVER said they would be perfect! NEVER! What Jesus did promise was that Official Papal Teachings on matters of Faith and or Morals, would (merited by our Blessed Lords Pascal Sacrifice) not, could not be in error:thumbsup:

It is Christ Church “that is Holy” in that She is the Bride of Christ, and has the indwelling of the Holy Spirit. Amen?

This teaching shows forcefully that the Pope is the very Antichrist, who has exalted himself above, and opposed himself against Christ

OR MAYBE

My friend you need more fibber in your diet. What your eating seems to backing up into your brain.

If I were to ask a knowledgeable person such as yourself: "what the entire bible, both the OT and the NT teach, and allow your answer to be only ONE WORD, what would that ONE WORD have to be?.. LOVE. are you a practcing Christian?

Yea, if Christ himself were again on earth, and should preach, **without all doubt the pope would crucify him again./**QUOTE]

Are you reading The bible, a bible, or a fairy-tale? Where, oh where, does this fable come from? Every bible I have ever read seems to show, backed up by historical evidence, that it was the Jewish Leaders and Romans who crucified Christ.

I can understand that the Catholic Church being the “One True Church,” that you need to destroy it to make room for what ever faith you deem superior. But let’s play nice OK?

Consequently you will find that, in my earlier writings, I most humbly conceded many important things to the pope, things which I later detested and now detest as being the greatest blasphemy and abomination.

i’m tempted to fib and say that I read them, BUT what applies to you, also applies to me.

The Seventh Commandment: “Thou shalt NOT lie.” (God speaking) so I did not, and shall not read your previous post.

When Jesus was asked:'master which is the Greatest Commandment" Jesu replied: 'You shall love the Lord your God with All your mind,with All your might and with All of your heart and with All of your soul. And the second is like it; you shall love your neighbor as yourself."

My dear friend in Christ, I shall pray that you will learn to “love yourself.” Amen!

God bless you,
PJM m.c.

Or was it when he married a nun while he was still an ordained Priest? Or when he found wives for other Priests from among the ranks of Nuns who had deserted their convents?

John Chapter 8: "
1 But Jesus went to the Mount of Olives. 2 Early in the morning he came again to the temple; all the people came to him, and he sat down and taught them. 3 The scribes and the Pharisees brought a woman who had been caught in adultery, and placing her in the midst 4 they said to him, “Teacher, this woman has been caught in the act of adultery. 5 Now in the law Moses commanded us to stone such. What do you say about her?” 6 This they said to test him, that they might have some charge to bring against him. Jesus bent down and wrote with his finger on the ground. 7 And as they continued to ask him, he stood up and said to them, “Let him who is without sin among you be the first to throw a stone at her.” 8 And once more he bent down and wrote with his finger on the ground. 9 But when they heard it, they went away, one by one, beginning with the eldest, and Jesus was left alone with the woman standing before him. (Picture) 10 Jesus looked up and said to her, “Woman, where are they? Has no one condemned you?” 11 **She said, “No one, Lord.” And Jesus said, “Neither do I condemn you; go, and do not sin again.” **

 

[pnewton]

I think the original poster needs to be cut a little more slack. After all, we were all young once and at the very least this poster is asking the right questions and exploring the depths of faith. Which one of us has never made a wrong turn in our journey of faith? Asking questionts and challenging pre-conceived notions is part of the growth process.

On the other hand, such questioning needs to be done with a humility that recognizes the centuries of great minds that have brought us to where we are today in the Chuch. One must also accept where God has spoken on certain issues and the existence of absolute truths.

Can God be thought as female in an analogous way? Yes. Jesus Himself used the analogy of a mother hen. However, this makes God no more a female than in makes God a chicken. The thing is such analogies that are private ways of understanding God should always be done in light of that which we know of God. Also, they should be private. When one takes something that is no more that a personal pious thought and starts building a public theology around it is where conflict and opposition occurs. This happened with all the inclusive, gender-free language some have attempted to foister on the Catholic faithful. The result was a backlash against anything that resembles it.

The OP needs to realize that you stepped into a controversy that was in the making long before you were born. While most of what was said was good, it did bring up the spectre of an issue the OP was proabably unaware of.

 

[palmas85]

My dear friend, you sound a bit bitter, cynical even If you think the Pope (past, present or future are perfect) you overlook that they too are simply human! They have a free will and intellect.

Jesus NEVER said they would be perfect! NEVER! What Jesus did promise was that Official Papal Teachings on matters of Faith and or Morals, would (merited by our Blessed Lords Pascal Sacrifice) not, could not be in error:thumbsup:

It is Christ Church “that is Holy” in that She is the Bride of Christ, and has the indwelling of the Holy Spirit. Amen?

OR MAYBE

My friend you need more fibber in your diet. What your eating seems to backing up into your brain.

If I were to ask a knowledgeable person such as yourself: "what the entire bible, both the OT and the NT teach, and allow your answer to be only ONE WORD, what would that ONE WORD have to be?.. LOVE. are you a practcing Christian?

Yea, if Christ himself were again on earth, and should preach, without all doubt the pope would crucify him again./

 

[brotherhrolf]

I think the original poster needs to be cut a little more slack. After all, we were all young once and at the very least this poster is asking the right questions and exploring the depths of faith. Which one of us has never made a wrong turn in our journey of faith? Asking questionts and challenging pre-conceived notions is part of the growth process.

Indeed, he should be cut a little more slack. He is asking the right questions and he is exploring the depths of faith. We are treating him like we would a fellow student in a college senior level history course…Martin Luther must be understood within the culture and context of his time. SHF is a young high school student in south Louisiana.

SHF - you brought up issues which have been discussed ad infinitum since the Renaissance.

Let me veer off and come to SHF’s defense. I grew up in HMC before Vatican II. I went to Catholic school for 13 years - the majority of which before Vatican II. The catechesis I received is not what SHF received.

Those of us who grew up before 1965 are the products of the Council of Trent. Right? The world was turned upside down in 1965 Right? What happened after…the Catholic world we knew changed.

Our young friend has no knowledge of the world his grandparents knew. He is a young man and he has much to learn. Let us teach him rather than flame him.

 

[Like]

Indeed, he should be cut a little more slack. He is asking the right questions and he is exploring the depths of faith. We are treating him like we would a fellow student in a college senior level history course…Martin Luther must be understood within the culture and context of his time. SHF is a young high school student in south Louisiana.

SHF - you brought up issues which have been discussed ad infinitum since the Renaissance.

Let me veer off and come to SHF’s defense. I grew up in HMC before Vatican II. I went to Catholic school for 13 years - the majority of which before Vatican II. The catechesis I received is not what SHF received.

Those of us who grew up before 1965 are the products of the Council of Trent. Right? The world was turned upside down in 1965 Right? What happened after…the Catholic world we knew changed.

Our young friend has no knowledge of the world his grandparents knew. He is a young man and he has much to learn. Let us teach him rather than flame him.

brotherhrolf, I agree with you. SHF has a lot to learn, but is on the right path. I think back to when I was his age & I know I wasn’t as knowledgeable or took seriously my faith, I was into chasing girls.

SHF hang in there and God bless you!

Happy birthday!:extrahappy:

 

[Robster7]

I am not a theologian, and dont know what specific terms to use.
But imagining God as a mother in the sense of the positive caring, nurturing aspects of a mother is okay. Ditto as brother, sister, best friend, etc. He created all these types of people and their goodness is a reflection of his goodness by analogy (correct term?)

However, God is a spirit and has no body and thus no gender.
Tho in a certain sense He is male since he is the Father of Jesus, and Mary is Jesus’ Mother. I don’t know what term in theology you would use to describe this.

I dont think this exalts the male over the female any more than the immaculate conception exalts the female over the male.

 

[palmas85]

Indeed, he should be cut a little more slack. He is asking the right questions and he is exploring the depths of faith. We are treating him like we would a fellow student in a college senior level history course…Martin Luther must be understood within the culture and context of his time. SHF is a young high school student in south Louisiana.

SHF - you brought up issues which have been discussed ad infinitum since the Renaissance.

Let me veer off and come to SHF’s defense. I grew up in HMC before Vatican II. I went to Catholic school for 13 years - the majority of which before Vatican II. The catechesis I received is not what SHF received.

Those of us who grew up before 1965 are the products of the Council of Trent. Right? The world was turned upside down in 1965 Right? What happened after…the Catholic world we knew changed.

Our young friend has no knowledge of the world his grandparents knew. He is a young man and he has much to learn. Let us teach him rather than flame him.

I’m sorry Brother but you cannot teach one who knows everything already. How did our young friend react when I pointed out that his views were very close to that of the early reformers. which they are and that he needed to do more than merely respect the Pope?

He plugged his ears and cried out that we, more than likely I, was too close minded and he wouldn’t post anymore. A truly grand performance.

You say that he is asking the right questions. What questions is he asking? All that I see him doing his spouting what he has been told and expecting everyone here to accept it because he or more likely his youth leader says it is so. No justification and if questioned about these statements he becomes hostile, sullen and in essence doesn’t want to play anymore. He doesn’t want to learn. He already knows everything. You nor I nor anyone else can tell him anything.

And to go to the beginning what did he say, I see you like to bash each other?. He then instructed us to read his blog, an authoritative source no doubt, and accept his opinion as fact.

Maybe the kid does need some slack, but he also needs to open his eyes open his ears, accept that he doesn’t know everything and that others may question his opinions from time to time.

And if as you say, he is a young High School student who doesn’t really know what he is talking about, then he should have the good sense to keep quiet until he does know and can speak intelligently about the subject instead of parroting what someone told him.

 

[pnewton]

I’m sorry Brother but you cannot teach one who knows everything already…And if as you say, he is a young High School student who doesn’t really know what he is talking about, then he should have the good sense to keep quiet until he does know and can speak intelligently about the subject instead of parroting what someone told him.

But then again, we have all been there. The term “sophmoric” applies to all at one time or another. I just think that a soft answer turns away wrath in a case like that.

On the other hand, it is the nature of these boards that adults tread the floor in an adult fashion. Your responses would not have offended any of us that have regularly bumped heads with you, I don’t think. Teenagers and college students should give their elders enough respect to cut us some slack to when we respond with a direct refutation of something they think dear. We all need to respond the the content not the delivery. That too is a learning experience .

 

[Lisa44]

God is not hung onto laws and rules as humans are…

Hi are you coming back or did you leave us?

I am a bit confused by this statement. Its one thing to sin and be forgiven, its another thing altogether to continue in sin knowing it is sin.

The rules of the church are there to help you to not die with mortal sin and therefore have to be punished in hell or purgatory.

Jesus forgave the prostitute but told her to sin no more. If she keeps on sinning then she will have to pay for those in a way that is more painful than any pain she can imagine on earth.

If what people are telling you sounds too good to be true, then it probably is.