Article on Sexual Issues in a Protestant Church

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What is your take on this?

Rob Renfroe, a minister at The Woodlands United Methodist Church near Houston, Texas, writes a very interesting article in the current issue of Good News magazine, published by the Good News Movement, a group of evangelical United Methodists. In “An Appeal to Leadership – Listen and Lead,” Renfroe argues that the sexuality issues currently dividing his church point to far deeper differences.

He explains, “we do not believe that homosexuality is the issue that is dividing the church. That would be like saying that the primary issue facing a patient with a staff infection is his fever. I wish homosexuality was the issue that divided the church. It would be enough. But it’s not. The divide runs much deeper than our differences regarding sexual practice and it centers on four key issues.”

This is a keen insight. The issues related to sexuality point to more fundamental issues of biblical authority, the nature and character of God, and the meaning of the Gospel. Renfroe helpfully spells out the four key issues as he sees them.

First, “The nature of moral truth. Is moral truth determined by the unchanging character of God? Or is it determined by the ever-changing experiences of human beings?”

This is absolutely essential. If moral truth (as contrasted with our fallible moral judgments) is determined by our own changing experiences, then moral truth really does not exist. It is nothing more than mere social construction. In truth, righteousness is determined by God’s unchanging character – as is sin.

Second, “The authority of the Scriptures. Do the Scriptures speak truth to all peoples in all cultures at all times? Or were they wrong when they were written, culturally determined in their declarations, and hopelessly out of date for persons enlightened by the truth contained in the last sociological surveys?”

Again, absolutely crucial. If the Bible is not a truly transcultural revelation from God, we have no authority for speaking to anyone outside of our own culture. Furthermore, we cannot apply the moral wisdom of an ancient people in an ancient age to our contemporary context. This leaves the church in a disastrous predicament, and silences the Bible.

Third, “The revelatory work of the Holy Spirit. Is the revelatory work always in accordance with the Scriptures? Or can the Spirit amend and even contradict the Scriptures?”

Renfroe’s expansion of this point is crucial to his argument:

Even the most conservative Christians believe that it is the ongoing work of the Holy Spirit to illumine the Scriptures, reveal more of its meaning, and show us how to apply the eternal Word of God to the issues of our contemporary time and culture. But liberals, at least the more radical ones, go much further than that. They believe that the living Christ not only offers new insights into the Scriptures, but that he also corrects, amends, and even contradicts it. As one retired elder in our annual conference said to me, “The church created the Scriptures so we can recreate them.”

We now see some, even some claiming to be evangelicals, who claim that the Holy Spirit has led them to believe and to act in direct opposition to the Bible. This is an insult to the Bible and to the Holy Spirit. The assumption of individual autonomy, wedded to a radical concept of the Holy Spirit as a spiritual revolutionary, leads some to attempt to remake Christianity in their own image – and then to claim that the Holy Spirit led them there.

Fourth, “The uniqueness of Christ. Do we confess him as the only-begotten Son of God, the unique Savior of the word, and the supreme Lord of the universe? Or can he be particularized to our experiences, relativized for a Western culture, and trivialized into just one of many ways to God?”

As Archbishop Peter Jensen claims [see below], if we will not defend the plain teachings of the Bible on sexuality, we will not defend the Bible’s clear witness to the uniqueness of Christ. Rob Renfroe makes essentially the same point here. If the Bible’s teachings on sexuality are culturally relative, then so is its message about salvation – and its witness to Christ. At this point, we then have no authority for knowing who Jesus Christ really is or why the question really matters.
 
Wow! This guy is seriously in the minority in his Church.

***“It’s only a matter of time until your views on marriage are going to affect your ecclesiology.” ***
~Gerry Matatics in Surprised by Truth
 
He seems in good agreement with Saint Paul:
For what can be known about God is plain to them, because God has shown it to them. 20* Ever since the creation of the world his invisible nature, namely, his eternal power and deity, has been clearly perceived in the things that have been made. So they are without excuse; 21* for although they knew God they did not honor him as God or give thanks to him, but they became futile in their thinking and their senseless minds were darkened. 22 Claiming to be wise, they became fools, 23* and exchanged the glory of the immortal God for images resembling mortal man or birds or animals or reptiles. 24 Therefore God gave them up in the lusts of their hearts to impurity, to the dishonoring of their bodies among themselves, 25 because they exchanged the truth about God for a lie and worshiped and served the creature rather than the Creator, who is blessed for ever! Amen. 26 For this reason God gave them up to dishonorable passions. Their women exchanged natural relations for unnatural, 27 and the men likewise gave up natural relations with women and were consumed with passion for one another, men committing shameless acts with men and receiving in their own persons the due penalty for their error. 28 And since they did not see fit to acknowledge God, God gave them up to a base mind and to improper conduct.
Romans 1:19-28
 
Then explain why the Bible has no problem with Slavery as a moral issue - but Christians today do.
 
Then explain why the Bible has no problem with Slavery as a moral issue - but Christians today do.
Study your Bible a little more and you will find the falsehood in your statement.

Slavery is atrocious. That can be backed up and affirmed by Scripture. But thankfully, we also have Tradition that we can look to for precedence.
 
Then explain why the Bible has no problem with Slavery as a moral issue - but Christians today do.
Study your Bible a little more and you will find the falsehood in your statement.

Slavery is atrocious. That can be backed up and affirmed by Scripture. But thankfully, we also have Tradition that we can look to for precedence.
Actually, slavery, as was practiced according to the Biblical principals set down in Exodus and Deuteronomy, was pretty tame. Children of slaves were not slaves. Slaves must be paid. Slaves can earn their freedom. A slave is not a slave for life. Slaves cannot be abused. Slavery was not based on race or ethnic group. Owners were not permitted to have sex with slaves. And so on.

Now the way slavery was practiced in the USA was not according to authentic Biblical principals. In fact it violated nearly all Biblical principals. That was atrocious.

Also, because of economic and technological development, the need for slave labor has diminished to the point where it is no longer needed. So in the same way the the death penalty was used for many crimes, such as theft, adultery, slapping a parent, and premeditated murder it is no longer needed for many of those crimes.

On the other hand, homosexuality has never had a place. It has always been condemned. Every culture in the world, every religion in the world, has condemned homosexual acts as unnatural.

The visceral disgust that so many people feel toward homosexual activity is not based on conscious hate or a learned behavior. Rather is a built-in instinct, a survival mechanism, not unlike the built in revulsion regarding human feces, the instinct at self-preservation or the love of a mother for her child. Yes, all these instincts can be overcome, but we recognize that in overcoming them we do so against our own self-interest.
 
Actually, slavery, as was practiced according to the Biblical principals set down in Exodus and Deuteronomy, was pretty tame. Children of slaves were not slaves. Slaves must be paid. Slaves can earn their freedom. A slave is not a slave for life. Slaves cannot be abused. Slavery was not based on race or ethnic group. Owners were not permitted to have sex with slaves. And so on.
Yes, there are some parts of the Bible that give parameters for slavery that were quite progressive for their time. But that doesn’t mean slavery was wrong.

And anyway, some slaves in the Bible *were *chattle slaves and were indeed property, to be passed down from generation to generation.

“(45) You may also buy them from among the aliens who reside with you and from their children who are born and reared in your land. Such slaves you may own as chattels, (46) and leave to your sons as their hereditary property, making them perpetual slaves.”

Now it seems to me that you’re intentionally misreading scripture in order to make it conform to your belief that the Bible is a good way to make moral decisions.
Every culture in the world, every religion in the world, has condemned homosexual acts as unnatural.
Pedastry was socially acceptable in ancient Greece.

Homosexuality is now being widely accepted, even in highly religious countries such as the United States
The visceral disgust that so many people feel toward homosexual activity is not based on conscious hate or a learned behavior. Rather is a built-in instinct, a survival mechanism, not unlike the built in revulsion regarding human feces, the instinct at self-preservation or the love of a mother for her child. Yes, all these instincts can be overcome, but we recognize that in overcoming them we do so against our own self-interest.
Ha. It’s funny that this is really the very center of the “Natural Law” argument, as stated in this very website. If you can find any studies that can support that hypothesis, I’d be happy to hear it. But personally, I remember thinking a man and woman kissing was really icky at one point in my childhood, and I was slowly desensitized. Seeing as how I never saw a man and another man kiss eachother, that was “icky” only inasmuch as heterosexuality was “icky” to me as a child… and I eventually was desensitized to that as well.

But let’s say for one moment that you’re right, and that many people (not all, obviously, because of homosexuals themselves) have a gut, instinct-level reaction against homosexuality on the same level as motherly love. Now, perhaps you’re right and it’s a Darwinian survival instinct. But, we’re very much above what we’ve been given instinctually. We’re conscious human beings, capable of looking at things honestly and reasonably. Now is homosexuality something that we ought to work past our basic-darwinian-survival-instinct? How would we know?

Well, I guess you look at exactly *how *it’s against the basic Darwinian instinct. Exclusive homosexuality prevents an induvidual organism from reproducing. But is that really so bad? Considering the very low rate of homosexuality, the lack of reproduction isn’t really that big of a deal. And considering the *explosive *rate at which we continue to multiply (and there’s an entire other debate about the overpopulation issue), I think that’s a basic instinct thats okay to get over. As rational beings, we can come to that determination.
 
Gentle reminder to please stay on topic of the OP’s original topic. Please start a new thread to discuss other topics.
 
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