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Maximilian75
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Yes.
The Diocese of Lincoln is kicking butt in this regard…
The Diocese of Lincoln is kicking butt in this regard…
Article: Sad Decline in Priestly Vocations
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JimR-OCDS
Guest
Is it ?
Jim
Jim
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Maximilian75
Guest
Orthodox, beautiful Ordinary Form liturgies (only 1 TLM parish in the diocese, AFAIK), thriving Catholic Schools, and a vibrant seminary.
This guy can be a bit polemic, so take what he says with a grain of salt, but the overall article is good
liturgyguy.com
This guy can be a bit polemic, so take what he says with a grain of salt, but the overall article is good
Why Aren’t Other Dioceses Looking to Lincoln?
(Photo from the 2015 Mass of Ordination in the Diocese of Lincoln, NE) So often these days we read of the ongoing collapse of Catholicism in the west. In diocese after diocese we see parishes…
liturgyguy.com
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Loud-living-dogma
Guest
I need to pass this along. Scholastic has done questionable stuff, I think.
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JimR-OCDS
Guest
I’m skeptical about the statistics
I checked out the Dioceses of Lincoln Nebraska, and it has only two ordinations to the priesthood this year. My dioceses which is much smaller, has three.
The shortage of priests is less than it was 10 years ago, only because there are less parishes.
Also, many of the seminaries have regionalized and those seminarians who enter such seminaries go on to their home dioceses to serve as priests. Are the seminarians in Lincoln, NB, actually from that dioceses or another ?
I know my parish is in trouble, mostly because we have less people attending and the revenues are down. This week the parish administrator let the organist go and the parish secretary is now a part-time job. He told us we cannot sustain ourselves as a parish with the current deficits.
My guess is that we’ll be closed within a year.
Jim
I checked out the Dioceses of Lincoln Nebraska, and it has only two ordinations to the priesthood this year. My dioceses which is much smaller, has three.
The shortage of priests is less than it was 10 years ago, only because there are less parishes.
Also, many of the seminaries have regionalized and those seminarians who enter such seminaries go on to their home dioceses to serve as priests. Are the seminarians in Lincoln, NB, actually from that dioceses or another ?
I know my parish is in trouble, mostly because we have less people attending and the revenues are down. This week the parish administrator let the organist go and the parish secretary is now a part-time job. He told us we cannot sustain ourselves as a parish with the current deficits.
My guess is that we’ll be closed within a year.
Jim
C
commenter
Guest
My diocese is bringing in priests from Poland and Africa. But this is only a partial, short term fix. They have to take a look at the overall religious ed, parish and diocesan process that results in so few local seminarians.
When my kids were going through First Communion, all the training focused on social aspects of the Eucharist: that the sacrament should make us sensitive to others in the congregation, to non Catholics, to the poor around the world. One parent complained there was no mention of transubstantiation, using other simpler words to express the Real Presence.
The response was that this was too difficult for third graders, but assured us they would study that aspect in later grades. But they never did. It was “social” all the way. This, and many other aspects of religious ed, preaching, bulletin announcements, and diocesan newspaper articles, constantly omitted any supernatural from describing the priest’s role. They redefined the priest as a social worker.
So why bother going to seminary when you can advocate for the poor as a layperson? Why put up with the sacrifices to hear confessions, when all of us are equally reconcilers of each other? Thus empty seminary.
When my kids were going through First Communion, all the training focused on social aspects of the Eucharist: that the sacrament should make us sensitive to others in the congregation, to non Catholics, to the poor around the world. One parent complained there was no mention of transubstantiation, using other simpler words to express the Real Presence.
The response was that this was too difficult for third graders, but assured us they would study that aspect in later grades. But they never did. It was “social” all the way. This, and many other aspects of religious ed, preaching, bulletin announcements, and diocesan newspaper articles, constantly omitted any supernatural from describing the priest’s role. They redefined the priest as a social worker.
So why bother going to seminary when you can advocate for the poor as a layperson? Why put up with the sacrifices to hear confessions, when all of us are equally reconcilers of each other? Thus empty seminary.
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Loud-living-dogma
Guest
I think that over the course of several decades, their ordination numbers are really high. It’s in the article that was posted.
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JimR-OCDS
Guest
The article is opinion by the Liturgy Guy, who tends to exaggerate according to his own ideology.
Jim
Jim
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Maximilian75
Guest
He directly cites CARA…
nineteensixty-four.blogspot.com
“CARA has presented the results of the five top-20 comparisons for ordination years 1993-1995, 1997-1999, 2000-2002, 2003-2006, 2007-2009, and now 2010-2012. An analysis of the results of all six data points indicates that of the 57 dioceses that placed in the top-20 for Catholics per ordinand ratio at least once:
Only the Diocese of Lincoln was in the top-20 all six times”
Ordination All-Stars
The research note is from the Winter edition of The CARA Report . CARA has been releasing research in this quarterly print format for nearl...
nineteensixty-four.blogspot.com
“CARA has presented the results of the five top-20 comparisons for ordination years 1993-1995, 1997-1999, 2000-2002, 2003-2006, 2007-2009, and now 2010-2012. An analysis of the results of all six data points indicates that of the 57 dioceses that placed in the top-20 for Catholics per ordinand ratio at least once:
Only the Diocese of Lincoln was in the top-20 all six times”
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frarmandofm
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Nine ordinations last year and eight the year before if memory serves me correctly.
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JimR-OCDS
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I went to the Lincoln NB Dioceses Website and they ordained two men this year, so far.
My dioceses which is much smaller, ordained three in the same time frame.
Jim
My dioceses which is much smaller, ordained three in the same time frame.
Jim
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Maximilian75
Guest
OK, but you’re focusing on 1 year, as opposed to a broader overall trend. Maybe they had an off year, or a majority of the 4th-year Theology seminarians for Lincoln will be ordained at a later date.
Over the past 30 years, Lincoln has still done very well.
Over the past 30 years, Lincoln has still done very well.
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CTBcin
Guest
It appears that over the past few years, Lincoln ordained:
2014- 4 men
2015- 8 men
2016- 4 men
2017- 5 men
This year seems to be a down year for them.
2014- 4 men
2015- 8 men
2016- 4 men
2017- 5 men
This year seems to be a down year for them.
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PJH_74
Guest
Sorry, this is a most unhealthy view of the priestly call if I understand the point correctly. He is not the Son of God, our sins were already forgiven by one sacrificial victim. No person can live up to that example. No priest should completely sacrifice himself to a congregation. He needs to delegate. He needs to have space to deal with anger, his limitations, and other feeling he might not be able to display publicly. He is a human.
Parishioners can be jerks. I know a female pastor who was felt up sexually by a member. One previous pastor at my spouse’s last church had a gun pulled on him. Another friend is near completely burned out and my well leave ministry all together. A church my spouse substituted at last weekend had a pastor that broke down enough to simply call one member to take some sort of mental medical leave. Look, my understanding of this subject is from a front row seat having to support my spouse through all these sorts of things. It scares me that we are telling those considering the Priesthood to sacrifice themselves like Christ when they have very few ways out once ordained.
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Saxum
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I have listened to Archbishop Sheen’s explanations and read his book ‘A Priest Is Not His Own’ and I agree with him. Sheen’s teaching on the priesthood is also shared by St. Josemaria Escriva. I choose to stick with this ‘unhealthy view’ because it was promoted and endorsed by a Venerable and by a Saint.
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Theo2
Guest
We are all responsible for recruiting for vocations. Parents, teachers religious and lay people. If we want people to serve the church we have to ask them.
Also, each diocese decides whether to take an man of advance age. I know a 56 year old widower who was ordained a priest.
Also, each diocese decides whether to take an man of advance age. I know a 56 year old widower who was ordained a priest.
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PJH_74
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Well, it’s fine if we disagree. However I feel it should be remembered that the sanctification process involves verification of miracles and an exemplary life. It does not imply infallibility on all matters.
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Saxum
Guest
But these teachings on the nature of the priesthood are standard. They’re biblical and have always been held. Archbishop Sheen began giving retreats in the 1970s because he was dismayed by the new views on the priestly vocation. I recommend a taped retreat called “Renewal and Reconciliation.”
The priest is alter Christus, ipse Christus. He acts in the person of Christ and offers the propitiatory sacrifice of the Mass. He must take up his cross and follow Christ; he must crucify his flesh with all of its desires. The priest must empty himself and become like Christ through penance, expiation and self-denial. Not a day should pass that hasn’t been seasoned with the salt of mortification. This is standard priestly spirituality. Priests wear black because they are dead to the world.
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frarmandofm
Guest
Not sure how to edit my previous post…but my memory did not serve me correctly. The Diocese of Lincoln ordained 17 priests in a three year span (2015-17), not in a two year span as I stated above.
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jack63
Guest
It worth remembering some history here I think. Take for example…
Saint Francis Borgia, S.J.
en.wikipedia.org
Born: 1510
Died: 1572
Canonized: 1670
He is notable for several reasons. First he he was a widower, had 8 children, was superior general of the Jesuits, and a Saint. He joined the Jesuits in his late thirties. I know it goes without saying, but he did well as a priest. Widowers can be good priests. In fact historically it was likely common. Woman often died during child birth. Life expectancy was much lower.
He was also the great grandson of a pope. I know the Borgia aren’t known as representing the pinnacle of morality, but celibacy was taken to mean something different than it is today.
This is all catholic heritage too that can’t be ignored.
Saint Francis Borgia, S.J.
Francis Borgia - Wikipedia
Born: 1510
Died: 1572
Canonized: 1670
He is notable for several reasons. First he he was a widower, had 8 children, was superior general of the Jesuits, and a Saint. He joined the Jesuits in his late thirties. I know it goes without saying, but he did well as a priest. Widowers can be good priests. In fact historically it was likely common. Woman often died during child birth. Life expectancy was much lower.
He was also the great grandson of a pope. I know the Borgia aren’t known as representing the pinnacle of morality, but celibacy was taken to mean something different than it is today.
This is all catholic heritage too that can’t be ignored.
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