Article: The fall of Satan and the demons at the beginning of time

[mdgspencer]

How Did St. Michael Defeat Satan? - Philip Kosloski

The fsll of satan is told in the Bible:
“And there was a great battle in heaven, Michael and his angels fought with the dragon, and the dragon fought and his angels:
And they prevailed not, neither was their place found any more in heaven.
And that great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, who is called the devil and Satan, who seduceth the whole world”…
(Rev 12:7-9)

 

[petra22]

Would this be a good place to ask my burning question? You CAF folks were so helpful when I asked about Mary being full of Grace…

Are the angels full of grace? They see the face of God every day and do his bidding… And if they are full of grace then how could Satan fall from grace?

 

[Michael16]

Yes, the angels are full of grace and are vastly more powerful beings than us mere humans. They have the power to make up their minds unchangeably forever; unlike us.

Now, Satan and the rebel angels fell from grace.

Satan fell into pride, refusing to bow down to Adam; and decided he would attempt to overthrow and become God. He convinced two thirds of the angels to join him in his rebellion.

As angels; they made their choice and it’s irrevocable. Unlike humans; angels don’t have a shot at redemption like we do. Satan and the rebel angels are damned to Hell forever and seek to lead us into hell with them. Because they hate us that much.

 

[Dan_Defender]

It would seem that the angel had no need of grace in order to turn to God. For, we have no need of grace for what we can accomplish naturally. But the angel naturally turns to God because he loves God naturally as is clear from what has been said in the Bible. Therefore an angel did not need grace in order to turn to God.
As for the fall of Satan, it would seem that angels were given free will only once upon creation, and Satan, out of pride, chose to reign in Hell rather than to serve in Heaven.

 

[petra22]

So grace is just for the human race… I was just wondering…

 

[Dan_Defender]

Yes it is a gift freely given if you sincerely seek it.

 

[mdgspencer]

Question asked here–if the angels see God’s face, how can they fall?

Saint Thomas Aquinas said the angels fell moment they were created. That is, they didn’t see God’s face then, before the fell.

 

[Pat_Albertson]

That is my understanding as well. The angels were given a choice at the moment they were created, to serve or not to serve. They did not know God at the instant they made their choice.

The ones that made the correct choice were rewarded with the beatific vision and never looked back, so happy were they. The ones that rebelled continued on, without God, forever and ever, and thus we say they entered into hell and eternal damnation.

I think Archangel Michael must have reacted against Lucifer as his second action after making his first instantaneous correct choice to serve God, at which point God gave him the power and might to eject Lucifer from heaven.

Things happened swiftly in heaven, far too quickly for us beings in time to have even reacted had we been present.

With regard to our speed, we are not even the swiftest creatures on earth, and so we have to give up our ‘seat of the pants’ intuition regarding how swiftly things happened among the angelic host. The speed of our thought does not even remotely approach that of angels; when contemplating the creation of the angels, I have come to the conclusion that we cannot think otherwise. We are very very different from the angels in some respects and any attempt on our part to really see things from their point of view is probably doomed to failure.

 

[petra22]

Very interesting replies! Lots of things to think about, especially the creation of the angels…even though I know it is all speculation…

 

[mythbuster1]

Indeed. I can’t even begin to imagine the level of malice that was necessary for angels to sin. Humans sin out of unbelief, faulty reasoning, or weakness of will, none of which apply to an angel. How someone could muster the level of malice necessary to rebel against God directly without any prior inclination to sin, knowing full well the outcome and consequences, is incomprehensible to me.

 

[Michael16]

@MasterHaster:

From the RCIA materials I was given.

 

[Anrakyr]

It’s basically if a being had perfect knowledge of it’s actions and consequences and choose anyway it logically can’t change it’s mind.

It’s something saint Thomas A wrote about back in 14th century.

 

[Wesrock]

Michael16:

They have the power to make up their minds unchangeably forever; unlike us.

How do you know this?

From natural reason it is a little speculative, and it would help to have some background in philosophy of the mind. If we are considering immaterial beings, they simply are intellects who know by infused knowledge and have no sense organs. Changing one’s mind implies imperfections in thinking and knowledge and being pulled by changing animal appetites, but such beings would know truly, and discursive type thinking is a material process in which we move step to step, and they have no animal appetites. If there are immaterial beings, incorrect knowledge, discursive thinking, and animal appetites are excluded from them (because they’re not material).

I know my post seems a bit slapdash, but the thought around this is much more mature and fleshed out than imagining the immaterial as ghosts or floaty-ethereal things like you see in popular culture.

 

[Wesrock]

Wesrock:

Changing one’s mind implies imperfections in thinking

“So the LORD changed his mind about the punishment he had threatened to inflict on his people.” Exodus 32:14

Do people not understand the Church’s approach to Biblical exegesis and it’s understanding, along with most of mainstream Christianity, of such passages as anthropomorphisms? God does not actually change his mind.

 

[Wesrock]

You cherry pick what you believe literally and what you explain away as metaphor, anthropomorphism, poetry etc.

No. I stick with the greater 2,500 years of context, whereas you cherry pick verses and go with the plain text meaning out of context. If you think you have me “gotcha’d,” all I see is someone approaching Biblical texts like an eight year old.