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Patchunky
Guest
Gee, that’s a wonder since the Communists left power with the Velvet Revolution in 1989 and the Czech Republic has been a democratic country ever since…
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TempleServant
Guest
That is illogical. If we’ve had progessive Catholicism for 40+ years and we’re still having problems, the answer is “more progression”?
Here’s another explanation: The Church contains the Truth. Some people don’t like the Truth, and leave, and also, in the last 40 years, they never hear it, so they leave.
Also, having a ‘Christian’ religion where you pick and choose what you believe is the essence of Protestantism. Lots of sects out there: you choose which one lines up with what you think God wants. You can contracept, bang tamborines, be a priestess and get up and say “The Holy Spirit told me this …”. In a consumerist, selfish culture, it makes perfect sense to pick-and-mix your own religion. And so they fall away.
I have yet to hear a Catholic priest say in a sermon: “As you know, if you die in a state of mortal sin, you will be damned”. Things like that. That would wake people up.
It would also be a good idea for one priest in every parish to say the old rite on a Sunday, as a lifeboat for people seeking refuge from experimentation.
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EcceAgnusDei
Guest
I’m sorry, maybe I didn’t make myself clear. The man was saying that the Communists had had power for 40 years and in that 40 years they showed what they could do, which was terrible, so that’s why basically no one was Communist anymore.Gee, that’s a wonder since the Communists left power with the Velvet Revolution in 1989 and the Czech Republic has been a democratic country ever since…
Sorry for the confusion.
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EcceAgnusDei
Guest
Well said. C. S. Lewis argued that if you are going down the wrong path, true progress is turning around and going the other way, not continuing down the wrong path.
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pilots13
Guest
I’m not advocating people picking and choosing their beliefs. I’m saying, when people go to Mass they look for a worship experience that fits them. That same survey showed several times that it wasn’t the beliefs of Catholicism that was driving them away, even on hot button issues like abortion, or contraceptives, or the roll of women. It was simple, superficial things like the music. That might sound self centered, and you can play the “well just suck it up and conform” card, but if all it takes is allowing some flexibility in the music, or modernizing the Mass (which remember is far from the same Mass the Apostles started) why not to it? Is it that important to cling to the middle ages, even if that, and not the actual beliefs of the Church, are driving people away?
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Edmundus1581
Guest
Both.
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BobCatholic
Guest
It is not progressivism. How is going back to 1917 Russia progress? If we surrender the language, the debate is already lost. That’s why we need to call them what they truly are: leftists.
Back to the topic.
Traditional Catholicism is winning and I’m glad for it. Read this article too.
catholiceducation.org/articles/religion/re0252.html
So what we are losing are the tons of chaff but we are gaining precious wheat. We are losing the weeds and gaining the wheat.
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1AugustSon7
Guest
Depending on what you have in mind by those terms, I would say that the chaff - like weeds - is only digging intself in deeper, and success on both sides is measurable. The adversary is extremely cunning and a master deceiver.
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TradionalWay
Guest
Amen :d
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domandcarols
Guest
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TempleServant
Guest
That’s the problem. The clergy are giving The People what they think they want. The People are now heavily involved in the rites of the Church, to the point of silliness. And The People are still staying away.
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Tampa_Dave
Guest
I disagree with any characterization of Traditional Mass as “clinging to the Middle Ages”. Regardless of its age or origins, the Traditional Mass is the most solemn form of worship I’ve ever experienced. Young people today, or simply old Catholics raised with the Latin Rite, find the solemnity and ritual of the Traditional Mass to bean ageless work of beauty.
No disrespect meant to anyone. I’m an old-fashioned guy who enjoyed “Sky King” and “Lassie” on Saturday morning and Latin Mass on Sunday!
No disrespect meant to anyone. I’m an old-fashioned guy who enjoyed “Sky King” and “Lassie” on Saturday morning and Latin Mass on Sunday!
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1AugustSon7
Guest
Roman Catholics can’t compete with sects that target people singularly on the emotive, entertainment level because our religion and spirituality is based on the supernatural. This reminds me of where the word pagan comes from: Catholicism was originally a largely metropolitan religion and the rural areas were the last refuges of pagan supersitition. Pagan originally just meant someone who lived on the outskirts of the city, such as farmers. Because these were the last to convert the association of them to the old superstitions resulted in our word pagan:
Origin:
…Latin: ‘peasant’, noun use of pāgānus ‘rural, civilian’, derivative of pāgus ‘village, rural district’ (akin to pangere ‘to fix, make fast’); see -an
Most of the sects you mentioned are no different or better than theatres. The Church does not seek to entertain people: that’s for Hollywood and comedians. The Church seeks to inspire people to lift their hearts up to God and make them conscious of their final end so as to live and lead godly lives.
Someone could argue that those places where guitars and bands are employed are addicting their attendees to an entertainment environment; however, on this front there are other places that not only offer the same, but offer it better and go “all out,” as it were. You can’t go “all out” with such a thing without offending Catholic sensibilities, so what you get is a mediocore level of entertainment. It doesn’t surprise me then that for those who associate worship with such triffles as guitars and bands that they ultimately end up preferring those places that indulge in it outright.
What the Church has is the ability to transcend daily and common life and lift people out of that mundane existence to the contemplation of God. It’s her supernatural, transcendantal qualities that surpasses the ordinary and even transcends history that sets Her apart, much like those in Judaea at the time of Christ were wont to say about Jesus that no man ever taught as He taught: when people encountered Christ they experienced something they had never experienced before, and He left an impression on everyone. The importance of a Christian being in but not of the world is obvious to all; therefore, we need an attitude and experience that transcends the demands of the present and, as it were, suprasses it to see the whole or bigger picture; otherwise, we forget ourselves and our religion in the day to day business of this life. The Church imparts to us such a mind and spirit and we can always remind ourselves of that experience and be, as it were, drawn up and out of daily triffles and difficulties by recalling it.
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TempleServant
Guest
That’s a good point. If you want rock and roll you can get a much better quality at a whoop-it-up Protestant church service. We Catholics can’t do it; it simply won’t gel with even the most liberal Mass.
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Patchunky
Guest
CHRISTOS VOSKRES!
And maybe I didn’t make myself clear. You stated the celebration was hosted by Communist Party in the 1990’s. This was impossible because the Communist Party wasn’t arround in the 1990’s. They had already been removed from power and so had anyone who anything do with them.
Sorrry for the confusion…
CHRISTOS VOSKRES!
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ByzCathCantor
Guest
By that standard, us Eastern Catholics are still stuck in Apostolic times!
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Cecil_Corn
Guest
True, the Communists lost power, but there is still a small Communist Party in the Czech Republic. Similar to the Communist Party in America. They exist, but are now irrelevant.
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BobCatholic
Guest
Yes, but in the end you know who wins. Jesus Christ.
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Rich_C
Guest
Good points Tampa Dave. I think youth-worship is an error, but for all the old fogies trying to be hip, let me add: I’m a twenty-something who attends the traditional Latin Mass with other twenty-somethings, and while we know how to party on Saturday night we love the timeless beauty and firm foundation of the EF Mass and go out of our way to assist at it.
The Mass of the Ages is for all ages.
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EcceAgnusDei
Guest
The Communist Party was still there, just not in power. But they sure knew how to throw a May Day party… free beer, sausage, and polka music got everyone out!
- PAX
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