Articles on "Separated Brethren"

[benhur]

]Only if they are preaching the Catholic gospel, which is the gospel given by Christ to His Body, the Catholic Church.

Do baptists,anglicans,lutherans and 30000 others preach the Catholic gospel ?

 

[PRmerger]

PR in context of what were discussing,yes,we are alike.The context was that we all have a personal understanding of matters, and that of there being a correct understanding,
regardless of where we place authority.

Fair enough.

There is a correct understanding.

And when someone (the CC) points out to you that you have divorced yourself from the correct understanding, is this not your position: I am free to come to my own conclusion from reading the Bible. You (CC) cannot tell me that my interpretation is wrong–it is simply different than yours.

Is that a correct articulation of your position?

 

[PRmerger]

Do baptists,anglicans,lutherans and 30000 others preach the Catholic gospel ?

Let’s take Baptists: when they say that infants should not be baptized–NO, they are preaching an incorrect gospel

When Baptists say that Jesus died for are sins–YES, they are preaching the correct (that is, the Catholic) gospel.

 

[benhur]

That’s quite curious given the fact that you won’t let the Church declare that about you.

Not true.That is precisely what puts us on this dialogue,I responded to a post that said something negative about other s gospel. I posted I prefer for a critic to call an ace and to tell it like it is ,dont hold back.

You should conform your views to the CC. You say; “No! I have the right to determine for myself what the gospel is!”

Just as you have determined to conform so have I.We both conform,though differently but we still both conform,freely as we have been so convinced to do so.

Yet when, say, the JWs don’t conform their views to yours, you say, “No! You don’t have the right to determine for yourself what the gospel is!”

We do not say that .Everyone has a right to be fully convinced of his own faith.That we we discern the rightness of any faith is a different matter,and yes ,something we all do to a point.

 

[PRmerger]

Just as you have determined to conform so have I.We both conform,though differently but we still both conform,freely as we have been so convinced to do so.

Finish the sentence, ben. Conform to …what?

 

[dronald]

Which verse and context?

Romans 14. Arguing over this and that; special days and observance of foods, etc.

 

[benhur]

Fair enough.

You know I like your “fair enough’s”

There is a correct understanding.

Absolutely there are absolutes.

And when someone (the CC) points out to you that you have divorced yourself from the correct understanding, is this not your position: I am free to come to my own conclusion from reading the Bible.

OK except that last part as being immaterial, though partly correct for myself though not for everybody. My point is we are all free to come to our conclusion. (CC)

“You cannot tell me that my interpretation is wrong–it is simply different than yours” Is that a correct articulation of your position?
__________________.

No to the former, you can and should tell me your discernment,be true to your convictions.However ,sometimes it is not done “correctly” (in love,wisdom etc) and one gets an “how dare you say I have the wrong gospel”. So yes at times we get “defensive” and feel “offended”, and it halts fruitful discussion.One can defend but should not from an offended, retaliatory attitude
As to the latter, I used the term"we have different interpretations" when a Catholic poster implied we avoid even looking at certain scriptures because of apparent Catholic meaning. That is, we do look at that scripture just see a non Catholic meaning.It is as if the catholic poster was not honest or understanding enough to admit any other interpretation, even a wrong one.(and that we deny the scripture even exists- my hyperbole)

 

[dronald]

Totally false.

The crucifixion, death and resurrection of Jesus has REDEEMED us from our fallen state in which heaven had been closed, but our SALVATION depends upon our cooperation with His saving Grace.

This wallowing in self-interpretation always leads to error.

What is lacking is our co-operation. That is precisely why St Paul teaches: “Work out your own salvation with fear and trembling.” (Philippians 2:12). We don’t achieve salvation in one fell swoop by accepting Christ as our personal saviour as some are misled to feel. St Paul knows very well what he is teaching: “I fill up in my flesh what is still lacking in regard to Christ’s afflictions, for the sake of His Body which is the Church.” (Col. 1:24). The members of His Body have to co-operate – no pain no gain.

I said “Saves me” not “Has already saved me.”

Are you denying that Christ’s finished work on the Cross cannot save one? I don’t think so. You’re just getting more technical, which is fine.

Yes, His Resurrection, Grace, etc also saves me.

 

[PRmerger]

Are you denying that Christ’s finished work on the Cross cannot save one?

No Christian ought to deny that.

However, you implicitly understand that His Atoning Death on the Cross, while being offered 2000 years ago once and for all, is a perpetual sacrifice. It is being offered anew to the Father at each and every Mass, from the rising of the sun to its setting.

 

[benhur]

Finish the sentence, ben. Conform to …what?

It is a finished sentence. It is a point in itself. When you say fair enough to it, we can build on that ,as to what we conform to,believing it to be correct.

 

[PRmerger]

Romans 14. Arguing over this and that; special days and observance of foods, etc.

So you are telling the SDAs that they have interpreted the Bible incorrectly?

 

[PRmerger]

It is a finished sentence. It is a point in itself. When you say fair enough to it, we can build on that ,as to what we conform to,believing it to be correct.

No, ben.

Conform to…what?

What is it that you state you have conformed yourself to?

 

[dronald]

No Christian ought to deny that.

However, you implicitly understand that His Atoning Death on the Cross, while being offered 2000 years ago once and for all, is a perpetual sacrifice. It is being offered anew to the Father at each and every Mass, from the rising of the sun to its setting.

What do you mean by “offering anew”?

 

[benhur]

No Christian ought to deny that.

However, you implicitly understand that His Atoning Death on the Cross, while being offered 2000 years ago once and for all, is a perpetual sacrifice. It is being offered anew to the Father at each and every Mass, from the rising of the sun to its setting.

Yes, the sacrifice of praise and thanksgiving (eucharist) ! Halleluiah ! His resurrection is the Father’s stamp of eternal approval of Calvary.No need to re-present the Sacrifice and pray that it be “acceptable and pleasing to the Father” anymore. We know it is ! Thank you Lord for such a sure praise offering. Thanksgiving, thanksgiving, thanksgiving.

 

[Erich]

dronald;12951458:

Jesus and His** finished work on the cross**

saves me.

In John 19:30, what did Jesus mean when he cried, ‘It is finished’? What does the 'it’ refer to?

Jesus could not have meant the completion of our redemption at that moment. For one thing, Paul teaches that our redemption is not complete without Jesus being “raised for our justification” (Rom. 4:25).

Perhaps you missed this post…

Are you denying that Christ’s finished work on the Cross cannot save one?

Indigo Montoya:

You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means.

 

[dronald]

Perhaps you missed this post…

I see no issue here.

 

[PRmerger]

What do you mean by “offering anew”?

I mean that it is a perpetual sacrifice. It is being re-presented to the Father by our priests at every hour of the day, in every land, from the rising of the sun to its setting. As the Scriptures foretold.

 

[dronald]

I mean that it is a perpetual sacrifice. It is being re-presented to the Father by our priests at every hour of the day, in every land, from the rising of the sun to its setting. As the Scriptures foretold.

Didn’t the Scriptures foretell Hebrews 10:10-14? Doesn’t this point to how we don’t need a “re-presentation” or no?

 

[PRmerger]

Didn’t the Scriptures foretell Hebrews 10:10-14? Doesn’t this point to how we don’t need a “re-presentation” or no?

Well, ronald, if it happened 2000 years ago, and isn’t being presented to the Father today, can you explain how His Blood from 2000 years ago covers your sins today?

 

[Erich]

I see no issue here.

You claimed that Jesus and His** finished work on the cross** saves you… and you asked, “Are you denying that Christ’s finished work on the Cross cannot save one?”

From Rom. 4:25 it is clear that our redemption is not complete without Jesus being “raised for our justification” – so since Jesus didn’t rise from the dead until Easter Sunday, whatever work it was that He finished on the Cross on Good Friday, can’t possibly have been the completion of our redemption – Easter Sunday was still two days in the future at the time!

So I ask you yet again… In John 19:30, what did Jesus mean when he cried, ‘It is finished’? *What does the 'it’ refer to (since it can’t possibly be the completion of our redemption)? *