Artificail Inteligence and Human Rights

[davidv]

The existence of God and the soul would still be very well possible, and even probable, but AI would put an end to using human behavior and the fact that we reason to prove it.

Only if one, wrongly I would submit, claims that what AI does is the same as human reasoning.

So where is the flaw in my logic?

That AI has a soul is either the fallacy of question begging, or the fallacy of non sequitur.

agreed. No one has an answer to the mind-body problem, so there is really not much point in including it in a conversation about human rights and AI.

Thank you. This was my point.

 

[zro_x]

That is not the same thing as reasoning. When people talk about reasoning, they are talking about a conscious self-knowing intellect that comprehends rational distinctions and on that bases willfully proceeds to make rational inferences. A calculator does no such thing and comprehends nothing.

We clearly need two different words to describe what we mean when we say reason. When I say reason, I mean the raw ability to use logic, which an unthinking entity could do, whereas your definition includes conscious experience of logical processes.

If we are not talking about a self-knowing rational intellect, then we are not talking about a true AI sentience as i would understand it.

We technically wouldn’t, and couldn’t, ever know whether or not the AI reasons in the sense you mean it. But, if we can get their behaviors to completely match ours, that would prove that reason, in the sense that I mean it, is physical in AI, and so could possibly be physical in us.

Neither have you explained why or how the existence of an AI would disprove the existence of the soul.

Good, because I’m not trying to.

 

[zro_x]

Only if one, wrongly I would submit, claims that what AI does is the same as human reasoning.

If the difference you’re talking about is that humans comprehend and have conscious experience of their reasoning while AI do not, that may very well be true. However, when I speak of human reason, I speak only of the visible effects of our logical processes. Our behaviors, which are guided by reason. Catholics could no longer use these behaviors to argue for the existence of a soul.

That AI has a soul is either the fallacy of question begging, or the fallacy of non sequitur.

I don’t see how.

 

[kotlomoy]

1. What about the achievements of the human race?
2. Does complexity explain everything?

Yes

1. How did complexity originate? By chance?
   What made the brain capable of becoming more complex?
   Evolution by chance is not the only theory of evolution nor is it the most convincing.

Evolution isn’t chance.
You must read this page to understand: ebonmusings.org/evolution/evonotchance.html
Quote: “…To conceive of evolution as nothing more than blind chance and randomness is** the most serious conceptual mistake one can make**. Evolution does contain a component of chance, but there is far more to the process than that, and it is precisely the existence of the non-chance components that allows evolution to work. The process of evolution is driven by the engine of natural selection, a filter that extracts order out of chaos according to a fixed and non-random set of rules. It is for this reason that many of the most common creationist caricatures of evolution fail. Evolution is not like an explosion in a print shop producing a dictionary, a tornado in a junkyard producing a 747, or DNA in a blender producing a human being, because all of these lack a component of non-random selection…”
So, evolution contains components of chance:

1. The child inherits characteristics of his parents. Eye-color, skin tone, height etc. Some characteristics from mother, some from father. But which characteristics from mother and which characteristics from father is decided BY CHANCE.
   en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heredity
2. There are mutations, spontaneous or caused by mutagens. This is CHANCE number two. The overwhelming majority of mutations have no significant effect on an organism’s fitness. But sometimes mutation can be harmful or beneficial (improving reproductive success). Fore example. 5%-14% of Europeans carry mutation CCR5-Δ32, which provides strong protection against HIV infection. Africans and Asians rarely have this mutation. But one third of sub-saharan Africans carry sickle-cell disease, which is mutation providiong resistance to malaria.
   en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mutation
   en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mutagens
   en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CCR5#CCR5-.CE.9432
   en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sickle_cell_disease

**Heredity **and **mutation **are random processes. They do not evolve population in any way. But if you add a third component - selection, then evolution starts. This is the order.
3. “Under selection, individuals with advantages or “adaptive” traits tend to be more successful than their peers reproductively—meaning they contribute more offspring to the succeeding generation than others do. When these traits have a genetic basis, selection can increase the prevalence of those traits, because offspring will inherit those traits from their parents. When selection is intense and persistent, adaptive traits become universal to the population or species, which may then be said to have evolved. Scientists who do experimental genetics employ artificial selection experiments that permit the survival of organisms with user-defined phenotypes. Artificial selection is widely used in the field of microbial genetics, especially molecular cloning.”
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Selection

1. Do you live like an animal? And treat other persons like animals?

“In everyday colloquial usage, the word often refers to non-human members of kingdom Animalia. Sometimes, only closer relatives of humans such as mammals and other vertebrates are meant in colloquial use.[2] The biological definition of the word refers to all members of the kingdom Animalia, encompassing creatures as diverse as sponges, jellyfish, insects and humans.[3]”
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Animal
Biologically, humans are animals. What do you mean “treat other persons like animals”?

Youtube is not an authority!

Youtube is a tool to express thoughts. Do not ask hammer to be authority.

 

[tonyrey]

1. What about the achievements of the human race?

No response!

1. Does complexity explain everything?
   Yes

What caused complexity?

1. How did complexity originate? By chance?

What made the brain capable of becoming more complex?
Evolution by chance is not the only theory of evolution nor is it the most convincing.

Evolution isn’t chance.
You must read this page to understand: ebonmusings.org/evolution/evonotchance.html
Quote: “…To conceive of evolution as nothing more than blind chance and randomness is the most serious conceptual mistake one can make. Evolution does contain a component of chance, but there is far more to the process than that, and it is precisely the existence of the non-chance components that allows evolution to work. The process of evolution is driven by the engine of natural selection, a filter that extracts order out of chaos according to a fixed and non-random set of rules. It is for this reason that many of the most common creationist caricatures of evolution fail. Evolution is not like an explosion in a print shop producing a dictionary, a tornado in a junkyard producing a 747, or DNA in a blender producing a human being, because all of these lack a component of non-random selection…”
So, evolution contains components of chance:

1. The child inherits characteristics of his parents. Eye-color, skin tone, height etc. Some characteristics from mother, some from father. But which characteristics from mother and which characteristics from father is decided BY CHANCE.
   en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heredity
2. There are mutations, spontaneous or caused by mutagens. This is CHANCE number two. The overwhelming majority of mutations have no significant effect on an organism’s fitness. But sometimes mutation can be harmful or beneficial (improving reproductive success). Fore example. 5%-14% of Europeans carry mutation CCR5-Δ32, which provides strong protection against HIV infection. Africans and Asians rarely have this mutation. But one third of sub-saharan Africans carry sickle-cell disease, which is mutation providiong resistance to malaria.
   en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mutation
   en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mutagens
   en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CCR5#CCR5-.CE.9432
   en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sickle_cell_disease

Heredity and mutation are random processes. They do not evolve population in any way. But if you add a third component - selection, then evolution starts. This is the order.
3. “Under selection, individuals with advantages or “adaptive” traits tend to be more successful than their peers reproductively—meaning they contribute more offspring to the succeeding generation than others do. When these traits have a genetic basis, selection can increase the prevalence of those traits, because offspring will inherit those traits from their parents. When selection is intense and persistent, adaptive traits become universal to the population or species, which may then be said to have evolved. Scientists who do experimental genetics employ artificial selection experiments that permit the survival of organisms with user-defined phenotypes. Artificial selection is widely used in the field of microbial genetics, especially molecular cloning.”
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Selection

Materialists believe life was caused by **fortuitous **combinations of molecules and development occurred as the result of random mutations. The title of Jacques Monod’s book is “**Chance **and Necessity”. A Nobel Laureate would not make the mistake of putting Chance first if it is not the primary cause.

1. Do you live like an animal? And treat other persons like animals?

“In everyday colloquial usage, the word often refers to non-human members of kingdom Animalia. Sometimes, only closer relatives of humans such as mammals and other vertebrates are meant in colloquial use.[2] The biological definition of the word refers to all members of the kingdom Animalia, encompassing creatures as diverse as sponges, jellyfish, insects and humans.[3]”
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Animal
Biologically, humans are animals. What do you mean “treat other persons like animals”?

Do you treat persons differently from animals? If so why?

Youtube is a tool to express thoughts. Do not ask hammer to be authority.

On a Philosophy forum you should be able to express the thoughts in your own words…

 

[kotlomoy]

No response!

You answered by yourself: “2. Does complexity explain everything?”
I confirmed: “Yes”

What caused complexity?

You answered already by yourself: "Evolution by chance is not the only theory of evolution nor is it the most convincing. "
So, answer is: “Evolution”

Materialists believe life was caused by **fortuitous **combinations of molecules

Materialists don’t believe, they hypothesize. Those who believe, they are not true materialists.

and development occurred as the result of random mutations. The title of Jacques Monod’s book is “**Chance **and Necessity”. A Nobel Laureate would not make the mistake of putting Chance first if it is not the primary cause.

It is just book title. It doesn’t matter.

Now I want to ask you a question.
Suppose, you have a 1’000’000 six-sided dice, each side has a number on it, numbers are from 1 to 6. You roll all dice. Then you select 10 dice which happened to have 6 on their top side.
What we had? We had a 1’000’000 dice with totally random number on their top sides. It is complete randomness, chaos.
What we have now? We have 10 dice with 6’s on their top sides. This is complete order, no randomness, no chaos.
Now, the question: How did we manage to get order out of chaos?

Do you treat persons differently from animals? If so why?

Yes.

1. Because persons are intelligent. Animals are not, or at least have much more inferior intelligence.
2. Because persons are humans, same species as me. Animals are different species.