Artificial Contraception: Why it is very Charitable & Realistic

[AgnosTheist]

Whats the catholic opinion on the Withrawal Method of contraception?

 

[RyanL]

Whats the catholic opinion on the Withrawal Method of contraception?

This link on Birth Control gives the Catholic teaching and the basis. If you don’t feel like reading that rather short article, I’ll put it succinctly: we’re against it.

God Bless,
RyanL

 

[AgnosTheist]

This link on Birth Control gives the Catholic teaching and the basis. If you don’t feel like reading that rather short article, I’ll put it succinctly: we’re against it.

The Withrawal Method is the best solution, at least for environmentalists like me. The most eco friendly and the most respectful of women. The perfect partner for NFP. Too bad the RCC is against it too. Thats just being too extreme.

Most people I know use that. It works well if you are skilled in pulling your gun. I hate condoms.

 

[RyanL]

The Withrawal Method is the best solution, at least for environmentalists like me. The most eco friendly and the most respectful of women. The perfect partner for NFP. Too bad the RCC is against it too. Thats just being too extreme.

Most people I know use that. It works well if you are skilled in pulling your gun. I hate condoms.

I disagree on a couple of counts.

1. I disagree that it’s respectful to women.
2. I disagree that it “works well”. For most men, there’s a slight amount of ejaculate present at the onset of intercourse and that ejaculate contains sperm. This sperm, even if it’s only present in small quantities, can get a gal preggers (i.e., it only takes one swimmer).
3. I disagree that it’s a “perfect partner” for NFP (see #1 and #2)
4. I disagree that the Catholic view of sex being one of the holiest things humans can do, and should therefore be done reverently and with much joy, is “too extreme”.

God Bless,
RyanL

 

[AgnosTheist]

1. I disagree that it’s respectful to women.

I think its respectful in the event that your wife craves for sex outside her period. Doing your sexual obligation would honor her. (if you dont feel like it, dont say its an obligation. pretend you are craving for sex too. )

1. I disagree that it “works well”. For most men, there’s a slight amount of ejaculate present at the onset of intercourse and that ejaculate contains sperm. This sperm, even if it’s only present in small quantities, can get a gal preggers (i.e., it only takes one swimmer).

it works well because its more realistic than abstinence. abstinence is hardly kept, for couples randomly becomes heated. And in the event that a couple ends up having sex outside of the period, the withrawal method is better than nothing. And withrawal is a skill that men can become very good at. I know I am harharhar!

1. I disagree that it’s a “perfect partner” for NFP (see #1 and #2)

NFP for periods. Withrawal for non-periods. Perfect Partner!

 

[Ferdinand_Mary]

**NOTICE: **Any more crude jokes will be met with conduct action. Please keep the level of discourse acceptable, as our youngest readers (age 13) may be following the discussion. Clinical terminology is appropriate. Crude innuendo is not.

Mane Nobiscum Domine,
Ferdinand Mary

 

[RyanL]

Agnos,

Before I go on, should I take your current line of argument as a recanting of your initial position (i.e., that ABC is charitable and realistic)?

God Bless,
RyanL

 

[AgnosTheist]

Before I go on, should I take your current line of argument as a recanting of your initial position (i.e., that ABC is charitable and realistic)?

No, it still is. Family Planning would always be charitable whether you do it naturally or artificially. The artificial method is more realistic in terms of being effective.

 

[AgnosTheist]

Any more crude jokes will be met with conduct action.

I suppose that was in reference to the ‘gun’. Aw, one of the factors that turned me off from the RCC is the very limted sense of humour among priests and nuns. In catholic school they always seemed too serious, too strict!

 

[Mannyfit75]

I suppose that was in reference to the ‘gun’. Aw, one of the factors that turned me off from the RCC is the very limted sense of humour among priests and nuns. In catholic school they always seemed too serious, too strict!

You just have to be obedient. Forum Rules here are required of us. You did in fact agree upon it when you agreed to the Terms and Condition for joining this forum. You have technically a binding legal contract to adhere to.

 

[DCD]

I think its respectful in the event that your wife craves for sex outside her period. Doing your sexual obligation would honor her. (if you dont feel like it, dont say its an obligation. pretend you are craving for sex too. )

it works well because its more realistic than abstinence. abstinence is hardly kept, for couples randomly becomes heated. And in the event that a couple ends up having sex outside of the period, the withrawal method is better than nothing. And withrawal is a skill that men can become very good at. I know I am harharhar!

NFP for periods. Withrawal for non-periods. Perfect Partner!

I mean this with all charity. This post along with some others you have submitted, make me wonder how I can distinguish you from any other species in the animal kingdom other than the fact that you can type?

Peace,
DCD

 

[Newbie2]

**NOTICE: **Any more crude jokes will be met with conduct action. Please keep the level of discourse acceptable, as our youngest readers (age 13) may be following the discussion. Clinical terminology is appropriate. Crude innuendo is not.

Mane Nobiscum Domine,
Ferdinand Mary

Thank you.

I didn’t mind the baiting in the OP as much as the crudness of the later posts. It’s offensive.

 

[setter]

No, it still is. Family Planning would always be charitable whether you do it naturally or artificially.

True, …provided one has only a humanistic understanding of fertility. If one has a wholistic understanding of man, i.e., made in the image and likeness of God, then the theological process of marital relations would exclude any form of ABC as charitable; and in fact, quite the opposite.

The artificial method is more realistic in terms of being effective.

The effectiveness rates of ABC and NFP are all but comparable; the variable is the proper application of the users.

 

[AliciaCL]

With careful consideration and thought and a careful read of Humane Vitae I just cannot see how God is offended when inside a marriage people practice contraception. My mom had TEN children in 13 years before the pill was available. I’m one of 8 that lived. For being the best parent to each kid, providing each with care, love, college and extracurricular activies, just having all the children possible makes no sense. It’s at the least extremely impractical. If it’s OK to “naturally” contracept through NFP, what is the big deal about using a pill? It is a medical development. Would you not use penecillin because it is unnatural? There are medical reasons why it’s beneficial for someone to take the pill, good medical reasons why some woman should not get pregnant. I think it is responsible to use the pill in a marriage when the couple doesn’t want more children, needs to put off having children financially, or has other medical reasons. When the encyclical came out I think the Pope was in a bit of a social panic about the detrimental effects of the pill on morals. It indeed did have a detrimental effect but I serioulsy don’t believe that it is morally wrong to use the pill within marriage. I know any official Catholic clergy would say I’m incorrect but I must rely on my own conscience ---- which is also in the catechism. Of course there is never a circumstance in which the church says you can use it. I suspect there are millions who are in my shoes with a lot less real consideration of the details of the encyclical.

 

[fix]

With careful consideration and thought and a careful read of Humane Vitae I just cannot see how God is offended when inside a marriage people practice contraception.

With all respect how do you reconcile that Christ speaks through His vicar and you claim your position is superior?

If it’s OK to “naturally” contracept through NFP, what is the big deal about using a pill?

Contraception is always wrong. If you read HV then you know why, right? NFP is not contracpetion.

It is a medical development.

Are all developments morally good to use?

Would you not use penecillin because it is unnatural?

Do you think by natural the Church means not artificial like non organic?

There are medical reasons why it’s beneficial for someone to take the pill, good medical reasons why some woman should not get pregnant. I think it is responsible to use the pill in a marriage when the couple doesn’t want more children, needs to put off having children financially, or has other medical reasons.

So, the ends justify the means?

I know any official Catholic clergy would say I’m incorrect but I must rely on my own conscience ---- which is also in the catechism.

Right, and it says our conscience must not dissent from Church teaching. Our conscience is not infallible.

Of course there is never a circumstance in which the church says you can use it. I suspect there are millions who are in my shoes with a lot less real consideration of the details of the encyclical.

The details are not stale points in a dusty book. They are the Truth.

 

[Kay_Cee]

With careful consideration and thought and a careful read of Humane Vitae I just cannot see how God is offended when inside a marriage people practice contraception.

I can.

Who designed our human biology? God did.

Does God make mistakes? No.

Using contraception is telling God He erred in his design. We, however, will correct His mistake for Him. I think He finds that extremely offensive, especially considering He created us in His own image and likeness.

My mom had TEN children in 13 years before the pill was available. I’m one of 8 that lived.

This is probably the best argument *against *using the pill. If your mother had used it, you most likely would not exist. You are an immortal soul that God chose to bring into existence so He could love you forever. The universe was changed for the better because now, where before there was nothing, there is a new life that will live forever.

For being the best parent to each kid, providing each with care, love, college and extracurricular activies, just having all the children possible makes no sense.

Well, now all of a sudden you’re stating it’s “having all the children possible.” Nowhere does Church teaching say that.

Besides, the purpose of life is to become a saint, not to go to college and have extracurricular activities. As far as love and care is concerned, parents do not have a finite amount they must then divide among their children. I did not begin to love my first child only half as much when I had my second one.

It’s at the least extremely impractical. If it’s OK to “naturally” contracept through NFP, what is the big deal about using a pill? It is a medical development. Would you not use penecillin because it is unnatural?

Penecillin does not alter our basic biology from what God designed it to be.

NFP works within God’s design. Contraception seeks to thwart God’s design.

There are medical reasons why it’s beneficial for someone to take the pill, good medical reasons why some woman should not get pregnant.

Good medical reasons why a woman should not get pregnant are why she should use NFP instead of the pill. NFP is more effective and does not have any side effects. Shouldn’t she use the best method?

I think it is responsible to use the pill in a marriage when the couple doesn’t want more children, needs to put off having children financially, or has other medical reasons. When the encyclical came out I think the Pope was in a bit of a social panic about the detrimental effects of the pill on morals.

You are basing this opinion on what, exactly?

It indeed did have a detrimental effect but I serioulsy don’t believe that it is morally wrong to use the pill within marriage. I know any official Catholic clergy would say I’m incorrect but I must rely on my own conscience ---- which is also in the catechism.

You misunderstand Catholic teaching here. You must rely upon an *informed *conscience, not one that allows you to just up and reject Catholic doctrine. The teachings of the Church are not up for our approval or disapproval. If they are, then you have to allow everyone else the same right to reject doctrine, including “Thou shalt not kill” and “Thou shalt not commit adultery.”

Of course there is never a circumstance in which the church says you can use it. I suspect there are millions who are in my shoes with a lot less real consideration of the details of the encyclical.

I think you should reconsider your position. Do you really want to tell God someday that you decided for yourself not to follow the laws of the Church He established?

 

[setter]

With careful consideration and thought and a careful read of Humane Vitae I just cannot see how God is offended when inside a marriage people practice contraception. My mom had TEN children in 13 years before the pill was available. I’m one of 8 that lived. For being the best parent to each kid, providing each with care, love, college and extracurricular activies, just having all the children possible makes no sense. It’s at the least extremely impractical.

Natural and revealed moral laws, i.e., Church teaching in matters of faith and morals, is not arrived at by matters of how practical, i.e, convenient, comfortable, …, that following moral law is.

If it’s OK to “naturally” contracept through NFP, what is the big deal about using a pill?

It is a misnomer to say that NFP acts against, i.e., contracepts, the procreative good. It does not, ABC does, and to act against an intrinsic good, i.e., one’s* fertility*, is a bad thing to do, and speaks a contradictory language than one’s professed nuptial vows. This is a significant difference.

1643 “Conjugal love involves a totality, in which all the elements of the person enter - appeal of the body and instinct, power of feeling and affectivity, aspiration of the spirit and of will. It aims at a deeply personal unity, a unity that, beyond union in one flesh, leads to forming one heart and soul; it demands indissolubility and faithfulness in definitive mutual giving; and it is open to fertility. In a word it is a question of the normal characteristics of all natural conjugal love, but with a new significance which not only purifies and strengthens them, but raises them to the extent of making them the expression of specifically Christian values.” (CCC)

1664 Unity, indissolubility, and openness to fertility are essential to marriage.(CCC)

I know any official Catholic clergy would say I’m incorrect but I must rely on my own conscience ---- which is also in the catechism.

1792 Ignorance of Christ and his Gospel, bad example given by others, enslavement to one’s passions, assertion of a mistaken notion of autonomy of conscience, rejection of the Church’s authority and her teaching, lack of conversion and of charity: these can be at the source of errors of judgment in moral conduct. (CCC)

Of course there is never a circumstance in which the church says you can use it. I suspect there are millions who are in my shoes with a lot less real consideration of the details of the encyclical.

Your point?

 

[AgnosTheist]

I mean this with all charity. This post along with some others you have submitted, make me wonder how I can distinguish you from any other species in the animal kingdom other than the fact that you can type?

You just dehumanized me and think its charitable.

 

[Pete_1]

I think the withdrawal method is referred to as the sin of Onan (the sin Onan committed in genesis chapter 38) in the bible. I may be wrong though.

 

[ElizabethAnne]

Because our country (which was 90% catholic at that time) was (& still is) very poor and overpopulated. But yeah you can choose to see it as a selfish attempt to improve the lives of filipinos, but many of us would rather see it as a way to better improve our lives as an attempt to solve many social ills like crime, poverty, child neglect, and white slavery (the more kids the more demand for under paid house helpers who is really like a slave).

Could you please provide sources as to contraception solving society’s ills? The birth control pill and other forms of contraceptives have been widely available for many decades. We have seen an increase in crime, and no decrese in poverty or child neglect.

poor countries are often overpopulated because people in poverty have very little to do but have sex.

I find your comment to be insulting. Perhaps you did not mean it to be, but the implication that poor people have nothing to do but have sex is, at best, ridiculous.

seeing countless of naked, dirty, crying & malnourished kids in shanty towns…thats what i call uncharitable.

The poverty that some humans live in is something that we should have compassion for. We need to help them and get them the resources that they need to live healthy lives. In most cases, we have those resources, but they are not reaching the people who need them the most.

young couples cant handle that. marriage is hot in its first 2 years. its an everyday action.

As 1/2 of a young married couple, I can attest to the fact that I can handle NFP. The idea that I, like the poor, am unable to control my actions and that I live my life giving in to all of my urges is, again, insulting.