As a Catholic...

[jcrichton]

My faith rests in believing that either way the world was created, it was no accident, and that it was all God’s handiwork, right back to the ‘big bang’

***Hi, Matt!

…exactly!

…look how close these two seemingly opposites are:

No life… then BANG!

…then Yahweh God commanded, “Let there be light!” (Is that not a Big Bang?)

…and this microscopic unicellular organism multiplied and filled the pool of life with various forms of plants and animal life… eventually came out of the water… eventually, returned to the water or took to the air…

…then Yahweh God commanded, "Let the water team with all sorts of living creatures… and the air be full with all sorts of birds… and the land be filled with all kinds of animal life… (so creatures appeared in the water and then on the air and on the land…)

Who came up with the theory of evolution?.. they have no inspiration in Scriptures, huh?

Maran atha!

Angel***

 

[hasikelee]

You are not required to consider all the stories of Genesis as historically accurate.

I do not believe the story of Adam and Eve to be literally true, but instead, a way to teach us to obey God. One must realize that people in Biblical times did not have as accurate a worldview as we have today. They were very superstitious and were quick to associate unrelated things with each other. They believed sickness/disease were punishments for sin, and that natural disasters were also punishments for upsetting God. Today, we know this is not the case. The story of Adam and Eve is someone’s attempt at trying to make sense of our chaotic world. This someone assumes that the world is chaotic because there was some “breach of contract” with our creator.

Keep in mind that those in the Bible did not know the “world” to be as big as it really is. Even Columbus was blindsided by the existence of North and South America. Their view of the world was the little bit of existence that they knew of…if some major flood occurred in the “world” as they knew it, they would assume that the entire world had been flooded. Logistically, it is quite impossible for a group of people to construct a vesel that could hold the millions of species in this world. Also, Noah would have to carefully place each species in its respective environment to ensure survival. He would have to put kangaroos back in Australia, pandas in China, etc. I believe this story to be figurative, but based on maybe a bit of truth. I see it as one’s mistaken interpretation of a natural disaster as a punishment from God. The message is strong though…don’t disobey God.

I thought along similar lines…such as when they claim taking two of every creature…would that not be every creature in the world as they know it?

Hmmm

 

[johnbres2]

Of course we are not supposed to believe in the literal truth of Genesis. Pope John Paul II said that one must read the pre-historical stories from the OT as being true, keeping in mind the literary devices and forms that the inspired authors were using. Clearly, Adam and Eve are representatives of humanity for the purpose of explaining the origins of sin. There were no witnesses of the first humans, to write things down. Clearly, these stories are something along the lines of stories that were passed down generation to generation, each with a kernel of sacred truth for all of humanity. I think people are on a slippery slope when they take these early creation stories literally. You start hearing people (further down the slippery slope) saying things like there was no rain before the flood, because it is not mentioned, and there were no dinosaurs before people, etc. It makes perfect sense to believe that there is original sin–this is dogma. But it is not dogma, and not insisted on by the Church, that the pre-historic stories be accepted as literally accurate.

 

[roymckenzie]

Of course we are not supposed to believe in the literal truth of Genesis. …

As a Catholic Christian you are required to believe what the Catechism of the Catholic Church says is with out error. I could not find it but there is a place in the CCC that affirms the story of Adam and Eve.
Catechism of the Catholic Church:

The account of the fall in Genesis 3 uses figurative LANGUAGE, but affirms a primeval event, a deed that took place at the beginning of the history of man.264 Revelation gives us the certainty of faith that the whole of human history is marked by the original fault freely committed by our first parents.

Catechism of the Catholic Church:

[374](http://javascript:OpenPopupWindow(%22%3cp%3e%3cA%20HREF=# onclick=window.opener.SetPage()
The first man was not only created good, but was also established in friendship with his Creator and in harmony with himself and with the creation around him, in a state that would be surpassed only by the glory of the new creation in Christ.
[375](http://javascript:OpenPopupWindow(%22%3cp%3e%3cA%20HREF=# onclick=window.opener.SetPage()
The Church, interpreting the symbolism of biblical language in an authentic way, in the light of the New Testament and Tradition, teaches that our first parents, Adam and Eve, were constituted in an original "state of holiness and justice."250 This grace of original holiness was "to share in . . . divine life."251
[376](http://javascript:OpenPopupWindow(%22%3cp%3e%3cA%20HREF=# onclick=window.opener.SetPage()
By the radiance of this grace all dimensions of man’s life were confirmed. As long as he remained in the divine intimacy, man would not have to suffer or die.252 The inner harmony of the human person, the harmony between man and woman,253 and finally the harmony between the first couple and all creation, comprised the state called “original justice.”
[377](http://javascript:OpenPopupWindow(%22%3cp%3e%3cA%20HREF=# onclick=window.opener.SetPage()
The “mastery” over the world that God offered man from the beginning was realized above all within man himself: mastery of self. The first man was unimpaired and ordered in his whole being because he was free from the triple concupiscence254 that subjugates him to the pleasures of the senses, covetousness for earthly goods, and self-assertion, contrary to the dictates of reason.
[378](http://javascript:OpenPopupWindow(%22%3cp%3e%3cA%20HREF=# onclick=window.opener.SetPage()
The sign of man’s familiarity with God is that God places him in the garden.255 There he lives “to till it and keep it.” Work is not yet a burden,256 but rather the collaboration of man and woman with God in perfecting the visible creation.
379
This entire harmony of original justice, foreseen for man in God’s plan, will be lost by the sin of our first parents. .

 

[johnbres2]

You are splitting hairs. It is semantics. I do not disagree with the Catechism–I do believe there was a primeval event and that Adam and Eve are the first known parents in human history. However, the account of their creation is allegorical. We have to use our brains too, in reading scriptures.

 

[MikinVa]

Yes you are required, there is no maybe or maybe that, the Word is God.

Divine revelation, every word in the Bible speaks of Jesus and is the truth.

God reveals himself in the Word.

 

[roymckenzie]

You are splitting hairs. It is semantics. I do not disagree with the Catechism–I do believe there was a primeval event and that Adam and Eve are the first known parents in human history. However, the account of their creation is allegorical. We have to use our brains too, in reading scriptures.

Please help me which hair did I split? As I am not a smart man, I am not sure that I understand the splitting of hair.

 

[brycelaliberte]

Ok, so I just want to ask, what from the story are we supposed to take away? Figuratively and literally, of course.

Adam and Eve? The serpent? The Garden? All that stuff.

 

[jcrichton]

“I respect the Muslims. They kill & conquer, but don’t force religion down our throats”

“I’m on Yasmin; it prevents implantation, not ovulation”

“Now abortions are safe and don’t nearly as much endanger a woman’s life”

***Hi, hasikelee!

…is this your personal philosophy?

Maran atha!

Angel***

 

[jcrichton]

Ok, so I just want to ask, what from the story are we supposed to take away? Figuratively and literally, of course.

Adam and Eve? The serpent? The Garden? All that stuff.

***Hi!

Can you be more specific… are you saying that Adam and Eve were are not the first created human or that the serpent did not exist or that there was no Garden of Eden–all allegory?

Maran atha!

Angel***

 

[CactusJack]

Matt…

You started a very good thread here and I really
appreciate your questions and the response of so many posters… Good stuff ! ! !

It sounds like you have a good foundation concerning the love of God, in Christ. This is the most important knowledge you can have. To know that Jesus Christ is your savior is better than all the scientific information you could ever gather.

Someone once said that the bible is an amazing book. The simplest person can understand the revelation of God in it. The most complex and intelligent person can spend their entire life delving into it and get inspiration and revelation from it.

One of the ways I approach scripture is this: I pray to God to give me what I need to live my life in a way that is pleasing to him. As for the difficult passages or stories I ask that He reveal meanings as He sees fit.

I’m now 63 and have been studying scripture for nearly 40 years. It’s the only book I can read over and over and over and get more and more and more! It’s a LIVING WORD I am reading, inspired by our very Father! That Living Word is, in fact, Jesus, Himself!

If you’ve ever read the childrens books known as “Where Waldo” you might get a kick out of this. In every one of those books you are challanged to find Waldo in the pictures. It’s always a little victory for a kid to find him. In the Old Testament the people were being prepared for the arrival of their Savior, Jesus Christ. Many books and passages are pointing to Jesus. So… when I read through the Old Testament I find myself saying, “There’s Jesus!” He and His mission were often prophesied in the OT and you can find Him all over the place!

Christ is the central character in all of scripture. Jesus was quoted in one of the gospels as saying to some very serious, studious Jewish Scribes, who were reading scripture… “You study scripture very carefully hoping that in them you will find eternal life. These words point to Me!”

So… Long story short… Our study of scripture will always lead us to the Lord of Life. It is He Who saves us, regenerates us, sanctifies us and equips us to do the things He has created us for.

Enjoy your studies of scripture! And when you don’t understand certain things … ASK Him to help you! He is right there with you as you study! He may inspire you directly, through your local priest, or, perhaps through another believer. He WILL answer you!

Thanks again for your question!

Cactus Jack - Austin, Texas - USA

 

[roanoker]

Jesus believed in Noah and the flood. He preached on it. So did Peter. Were they decieved, or were they deceiving us. Its got to be one or the other, I believe.

 

[CactusJack]

God is so good…

I just got a call from my 5th child, Bill…

We got to talking about similar things as this post…

And… I shared with him about how when he was a kid, looking for Waldo… which he remembered very well…

And then we went to the scriptures and saw Jesus everywhere!!! Praise God!

Cactus Jack

 

[JesusMtz]

The way I see it is that one needs to really commend oneself to the Holy Spirit before opening and reading any part of the bible. One must ask God to send his Holy Spirit and give guidance.

In regards to the creation and Genesis, I believe that some of the scientific facts that have been discover are probably true, such as the Big Bang theory but before one accuses me of not being a Catholic, let me explain the way I see it. The Big Bang states that millions and million and million (you get the idea) a bunch of gases came together and created a big explosion in the Universe. First of all, where did these gases come from or what caused them to come together. The only answer is God.

The next thing is the six days to create the world, I am sure someone in a previous posting already mentioned that the six days just represent a small amount of time but one must remember that time does not exist for God. What may seem like six days to God may be millions of years for us. God is not confined to time.

In regards to the humanlike mammal remains which scientist have discovered, In Genesis life began in day 5 and 6. Day 5 was life in the water which what scientists believe that life began in the oceans and slowly the animals came on to the ground. I am sure it is not hard for God to make animals leave the water and come to the ground. For us, this would take millions of years but for God it would be in an instant. God said that let there be every kind of beasts on the earth. During this time, I believe that the humanlike creature came to be. The bible clearly puts humans aside by themselves in a very special class. God said, “Let US make man in our image.” This brings a very big significance because God took the time took literally create us. He could have very easily said let there be man in our image but he wanted to MAKE us not let us appear.

I pray that God give his Holy Spirit to anyone who asks for it, especially when studying the scriptures.

God Bless all of you.

 

[agent_grey]

I am no expert but if genesis is to be understood literaly then God commands insest and then later condemns practicers of insest(keepers of his commandments) to death.

Where did Adam and Eve’s kids find wives without practicing incest. The law of moses forbids incest. The Law on my heart forbids incest. But tell a 6 day creationist this and they will find all kinds of justification but the story is the story and if it must be taken literally then I abondon the book. I can believe we evolved from monkeys before I can believe in a god that says have children with your sister then says Him who sleepes with his sister is to be put to death. I absolutely refuse to contradict myself for the purposes of a dead book.

You will know them by there fruit… Literal creationists I find to be the evilest men I have ever met. I even new this SDA guy that thought God would condemn people for going to church on the wrong day. I call this the blasphemy of the Holy Spirit.

 

[johnbres2]

agent_grey make some good points. Thinking about this some more, I do not think what you believe about the creation story being literally true, to whatever extent, is really a matter of church doctrine. The Church has acknowledged evolution. Clearly, the big bang theory is not inconsistent with biblical creation. I think there is room here for finding what you want from the stories. The Church has been smart to never make this hard and fast doctrine. Contrast this with the Church’s position on right to life. There is a good case to be made that if you support the legality of abortion, this contradicts absolute doctrine, and is completely incompatible with being Catholic. There is so similar bright liine when it comes to interpreting the creation story. Personally, I don’t understand why someone would “force” a literal interpretation on the creation story. I think it is unintelligent to do that. But, again, there is room for people to disagree on this, and still to be within Church teaching.

 

[juliamajor]

Jesus believed in Noah and the flood. He preached on it. So did Peter. Were they decieved, or were they deceiving us. Its got to be one or the other, I believe.

They understood the stories as other people would have understood the stories. If they went around saying"Noah’s ark is a metaphor for salvation’ the people would’nt know what the heck they were talking about.They were people of their time period. It has nothing to do with deception or deceiving- it has to do with the knowledge of the time period.

 

[SeanTom]

As far as Noah goes, I believe there has ben some physical evidence of cataclysmic flooding on the Earth happening before. Can anyone else out there confirm this?

Asuno,

Biblical evidence for the global Flood

The local flood idea is totally inconsistent with the Bible, as the following points demonstrate:

The need for the Ark

If the Flood were local, why did Noah have to build an Ark? He could have walked to the other side of the mountains and escaped. Traveling just 20 km per day, Noah and his family could have traveled over 3,000 km in six months. God could have simply warned Noah to flee, as He did for Lot in Sodom.

The size of the Ark

If the Flood were local, why was the Ark big enough to hold all the different kinds of land vertebrate animals in the world? If only Mesopotamian animals were aboard, or only domestic animals, the Ark could have been much smaller.1

The need for animals to be on the Ark

If the Flood were local, why did God send the animals to the Ark to escape death? There would have been other animals to reproduce those kinds even if they had all died in the local area. Or He could have sent them to a non-flooded region.

The need for birds to be on the Ark
If the Flood were local, why would birds have been sent on board? These could simply have winged across to a nearby mountain range. Birds can fly several hundred kilometers in one day.

The judgment was universal

If the Flood were local, people who did not happen to be living in the vicinity would not have been affected by it. They would have escaped God’s judgment on sin. It boggles the mind to believe that, after all those centuries since creation, no one had migrated to other parts—or that people living on the periphery of such a local flood would not have moved to the adjoining high ground rather than be drowned. Jesus believed that the Flood killed everyone not on the Ark (Matt. 24:37–39).
Of course those who want to believe in a local flood generally say that the world is old and that people were here for many tens of thousands of years before the Flood. If this were the case, it is inconceivable that all the people could have fitted in a localized valley in Mesopotamia, for example, or that they had not migrated further afield as the population grew.

The Flood was a type of the judgment to come
What did Christ mean when He likened the coming world judgment to the judgment of ‘all’ men (Matt. 24:37–39) in the days of Noah? In 2 Peter 3, the coming judgment by fire is likened to the former judgment by water in Noah’s Flood. A partial judgment in Noah’s day would mean a partial judgment to come.

The waters were above the mountains
If the Flood were local, how could the waters rise to 15 cubits (8 meters) above the mountains (Gen. 7:20)? Water seeks its own level. It could not rise to cover the local mountains while leaving the rest of the world untouched.

The duration of the Flood

Noah and company were on the Ark for one year and 10 days (Gen. 7:11, 8:14)—surely an excessive amount of time for any local flood? It was more than seven months before the tops of any mountains became visible. How could they drift around in a local flood for that long without seeing any moun

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[SeanTom]

(Cont’s from previous posting)

God’s promise broken?

If the Flood were local, God would have repeatedly broken His promise never to send such a Flood again. There have been huge ‘local’ floods in recent times: in Bangladesh, for example, where 80% of that country has been inundated, or Europe in 2002.

All people are descendants of Noah and his family
The genealogies of Adam (Gen. 4:17–26, 5:1–31) and Noah (Gen. 10:1–32) are exclusive—they tell us that all the pre-Flood people came from Adam and all the post-Flood people came from Noah. The descendants of Noah were all living together at Babel and refusing to ‘fill the earth,’ as they had been commanded (Gen. 9:1). So God confused their one language into many and scattered them (Gen. 11:1–9).

There is striking evidence that all peoples on earth have come from Noah, found in the Flood stories from many cultures around the world—North and South America, South Sea Islands, Australia, Papua New Guinea, Japan, China, India, the Middle East, Europe and Africa. Hundreds of such stories have been gathered.3 The stories closest to the area of dispersion from Babel are nearest in detail to the biblical account—for example, the Gilgamesh epic.

As to God’s covenant with Noah and all generations:

Gen. 8:2 “……the Lord said in his heart, ‘I will never again curse the ground because of man, for the imagination of man’s heart is evil from his youth; neither will I ever again destroy every living creature as I have done’” Also Gen 9:11-12: “I establish my covenant with you that never again shall all flesh be cut off by the waters of a flood, and never again shall there be a flood to destroy the earth.”

In my opinion, the above tells me that God, in His covenant, stated that He will not ever again destroy every living creature by the waters of a flood. Notice that He did not say that He would never destroy every living creature by any other means, nor did He say that he would not destroy some of the people who are living an evil life, either by waters of a flood or any other means.

 

[SeanTom]

Mottjolley,

THE CREATION STORY

Bible readers fall into two groups. For the sake of simplicity, we may split Bible readers into two primary groups: Literalists and Contextualists. Literalists, also called fundamentalists, interpret the Bible literally, saying it means exactly what it says. Contextualists interpret the Bible contextually, saying we must consider the historical, cultural and literary context in which the Bible was written. This is particularly true of the first eleven chapters of the Book of Genesis, where the stories deal with prehistory, that twilight time between the appearance of people on earth and the telling of their story. Catholics use the Contextualist method of interpreting the Bible.

The first creation story reads like a poem. Each day of creation follows a pattern.

Day 1 God created light and SEPARATED it from the darkness.
Day 2 God SEPARATED the water above (rain) from the water below (sea).
Day 3 God SEPARATED the water below (sea) from the dry land.
Day 4 God POPULATED the sky with sun, moon, and stars.
Day 5 God POPULATED the air with birds and the sea with fish.
Day 6 God POPULATED the land with animals and people.
Day 7 God CELEBRATED; He blessed the day and rested on it.

Thee literary patterns of the Creation story suggests that we are dealing with a special kind of writing. It is not the kind found in eyewitness accounts or in science books. Rather, it is the kind found in children’s books. The authors of children’s books use simple, poetic stories to teach children about life. Such stories are easy to read and easy to remember.

The Genesis writer chose a similar approach to teach about God, because most ancient peoples could not read or write. They learned everything by word of mouth. Thus a poetic story was easy to remember, entertaining, and instructive.

The author of Genesis thought to teach three truths:

FIRST, that there is only one God. (Any other so-called Gods that were falsely worshiped could not be Gods since God, the creator, also created those so-called God’s and therefore they would be subject to God, the supreme ruler of the Universe.)

SECOND, that God planned creation. (Creation did not happen by chance or accident).

THIRD, that God created everything good.

Some readers of the Bible are surprised to discover that the Book of Genesis contains two creation stories. The second story begins in Chapter 2.

Why was this second story added? To answer this question we need to recall that the first five books of the Bible, called the Torah (“instruction”), or Penteuch (“five scrolls”), which were passed on orally for centuries. Only later were they written down. Apparently there were two oral traditions about creation. When the bible writer was inspired to record the Torah, he included both versions. They complemented one another. Both stories agree with the three truths as noted above.

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