As a woman, how should I feel about 1 Timothy 2?

[steve53]

Thanks. You’ve answered my question.

 

[SFH]

For the most part, I’m at ease about the role of women in the church. Jesus appointed men specially for the priesthood, and I’m cool with that. Priests being icons of Christ, therefore male. Men and women are different, complimentary, and equal in the eyes of God. Even if God reserves a special calling for men to serve His Church in a certain way, that doesn’t make women any less important. After all, we’ve got an exclusive extra special role to play in parenthood. Etc. Etc. I can mostly attribute my passive qualms about Church teaching on this to my conditioning by a culture plagued by political correctness.

Then I come across scripture passages like this:

1 Timothy 2:11-15
A woman must quietly receive instruction with entire submissiveness. But I do not allow a woman to teach or exercise authority over a man, but to remain quiet. For it was Adam who was first created, and then Eve. And it was not Adam who was deceived, but the woman being deceived, fell into transgression. But women will be preserved through the bearing of children if they continue in faith and love and sanctity with self-restraint.

Wat?

We have so many examples of Jesus pushing cultural buttons when it comes to the treatment of women. We’ve got women being the first witnesses to the Resurrection. The Apostles saw tons of both men and women receiving the Holy Spirit in their ministry. But all of a sudden we have our beloved Paul in no uncertain terms blaming women for the Fall, and citing that as reason they have to be submissive to men? Even if this phrase is just meant to be in a “spiritual leadership” or priesthood context, it really seems like Paul thinks that women aren’t just not called to teach, but ill-equipped by nature, or “just not smart enough.”

That last sentence also sounds very much like, “Women can be saved only by making lots of babies” which is bad news for me if I’m right about God calling me to stay single.

Now, I know that the Church doesn’t view women as babymakers, second-class citizens, or intellectually inferior to men because, you know, nuns and Mary. So how do I reconcile that knowledge with some of the things scripture and some Saints say outright about women? I can’t help the sexism alarms going off in my brain. Someone please help me come to terms with statements like these.

You have to take it in context. St. Paul was interested in advancing the Gospel. At the time, different cultures kept to themselves. So when they started to interact at Agape meals and the Eucharist, the cultural differences drove some people away. Some of St. Paul’s comments are focused more on manners than doctrine. The Jewish converts were used to a more patriarchical society than the pagan converts. They would have been offended by women teaching in the Church. St. Paul is telling St. Timothy to make some allowance for the cultural differences. In other places, we see women taking a more active role.

I would place this passage with other Pauline passages like the discussion on buying meat in the market that was left over from the pagan sacrifices and the instruction for women to wear head covers.

He’s speaking about cultural/good manners requirements for first century Christians.

 

[SFH]

Well, actually the Devil was the cause of the Fall.

But no, Christian teaching has always taught that both Adam and Eve were responsible for the Fall. Always. Every so often you get some guy blaming Eve more, and then the theologians jump on him.

So the point of what Paul said is that you’re supposed to stop and say, “Hey, wait a minute!” It’s Paul saying something weird that is your clue to look and see what crazy stuff he’s pulling.

You get this several other places. Like you get a Bible writer quoting a well-known passage from a different prophet, and then saying it’s from Isaiah. So you say to yourself, “Hmm, why is he connecting prophet X to prophet Y? What do their sayings have in common?”

Or you get stuff like what Jesus did in some places, where He deliberately mashes two different Bible quotes together. That’s supposed to get your attention, too.

Rabbinic and Biblical figures of speech can be weird.

Actually, Catholic doctrine teaches that Adam alone is responsible for the Fall. Had he held firm, none of us would have been born with Original Sin.

 

[Tomyris]

What I’ve heard about this is:

1)‘Women shall be saved through childbearing’ does not mean throw faith out and start cranking out children. Instead there was some concern that due to the stress of childbirth women can lose it - nurses tell me sweet young moms who would otherwise be dainty in all their speech sometimes swear like sailors when giving birth - but women can go out of their minds and be possessed by evil spirits during this. Paul is saying that’s not the case.

1. There were women chatting (imagine that) when they should have been listening, and asking their husbands for explanations (the men being better educated) as to what was going on. I’ve seen women chatting in the middle of Sunday school class when the teacher is talking, and this verse usually comes to mind right in the middle of someone telling me how her sewing project is going or me telling her what is happening at work or with the family while someone at the front of the room is talking. No connection, of course…

And someone commented on this verse that there were disorderly women disrupting the service and Paul was working on restoring order with this.