As an ex-Catholic do you really know what the Church teaches?

[Mirdath]

What do you mean by “orthodox-to-a-fault”? Were your parents hard only on themselves or were you hit over the head with “religion”? I’ve experienced that and it’s awful.

Yeah, it is

Fortunately, they’re past that – well, the hitting over the head part, they can still be pretty rigorous with themselves – and we’re on wonderful terms now

 

[twosweetgirls]

AMEN!

My mother attended Catholic school in the 1930’s and 40’s through the 8th grade, where “the sisters made everyone memorize the Catechism”. Because of this, she now claims to “know the Catholic Church”, and yet misunderstands so many things about the Faith, that she left to become a “Bible Christian”.

She actually told my four young children (daily Communicants) that Catholics worship statues! Such an outragious lie from a woman who claims to have “memorized the Cathecism”? I think that she needed to concentrate less on memorization, and more on comprehension.

Yikes, BigFeet, I’d be telling your mother that she’d better watch what she says to your kids.

 

[zerocrossing]

But anyone who truly understands the Church would never leave and anyone who is not in the Church but comes to understand it would join .

That would certainly be the case in an unfallen world, where the intellect is in charge of the will. But unfortunately, fallen human nature is not ruled entirely by reason. It’s bound up in sin. The intellect’s control of the will is impaired. So people leave for all sorts of reasons - many of them related to self-will and sin, rather than simple misunderstanding.

 

[St_Violet]

Most ex -catholics believe they are theologians.

 

[PaulDupre]

If those who remain faithful are correct, and also if one can be condemned to hell for an imperfection, defect, or lack he or she has no control over.

There’s a perfect example of not understanding what Catholicism teaches. You can only be condemned to hell for the sins you commit.

In order for any action to be sinful,

1. it must be objectively wrong,
2. you must know that it is wrong, and
3. you must freely choose to do it anyway.

Therefore, one cannot “be condemned to hell for an imperfection, defect, or lack he or she has no control over.”

I’ll bet there are dozens of basic misunderstandings like this that we can help you clear up. Ask away, friend!

God bless you,
Paul

 

[Mirdath]

There’s a perfect example of not understanding what Catholicism teaches. You can only be condemned to hell for the sins you commit.

Or, perhaps, a perfect example of you not understanding what I said – I was not criticizing Catholic teaching, but someone else’s post. Mannyfit’s a great guy, but he doesn’t speak ex cathedra.

Don’t be so eager to show other people’s ignorance that you trip over your own shoelaces in the rush.

Still, let’s have your opinion anyway! I am an apostate, having rejected Catholicism knowing full well the Church’s opinion of that action, and having freely chosen to be honest with myself and others rather than play at being religious. But I did not commit apostasy out of any petty desire not to be bound by Church teaching; I fell away from the Church because I have no reason to believe in God and no certain knowledge of the veracity or authority of Catholicism.

So, am I hellbound or not?

 

[AgnosTheist]

I know catechesis for the past 30-35 years in the Catholic Church has been not very good to say the least. And there are definitely signs that it is getting better—this forum being one of them! My question, though, is why do ex-Catholics who have been to a Catholic elementary school believe that they know everything about the church? Even college graduates will pontificate about what the Church supposedly teaches because they went to Catholic elementary school. But obviously they felt the need for continued study in their secular careers— So what’s up here?

a lot of us ex-catholics know enough. we dont know everything but we do know enough.

 

[PaulDupre]

So, am I hellbound or not?

Only God knows who is going where, and that is not determined until the moment you die. No Catholic who knows his faith will ever tell anyone that they are “hellbound”. Such a statement would amount to blasphemy.

You may note that the Catholic Church has declared certain people to be in heaven (Saints), but has never and will never declare that anyone is in hell or is going to hell.

God love you,
Paul

 

[Fisher]

I know catechesis for the past 30-35 years in the Catholic Church has been not very good to say the least. And there are definitely signs that it is getting better—this forum being one of them! My question, though, is why do ex-Catholics who have been to a Catholic elementary school believe that they know everything about the church? Even college graduates will pontificate about what the Church supposedly teaches because they went to Catholic elementary school. But obviously they felt the need for continued study in their secular careers— So what’s up here?

They change alot.How can some one keep up?

 

[Mannyfit75]

Only God knows who is going where, and that is not determined until the moment you die. No Catholic who knows his faith will ever tell anyone that they are “hellbound”. Such a statement would amount to blasphemy.

You may note that the Catholic Church has declared certain people to be in heaven (Saints), but has never and will never declare that anyone is in hell or is going to hell.

God love you,
Paul

That is so true. Not even Hitler, Stalin, or Saddam Hussein, or his sons were declared to be hell by the Church.

The faith of one’s soul is determine by the individual and God. He will judge you accordingly.

 

[Mannyfit75]

Or, perhaps, a perfect example of you not understanding what I said – I was not criticizing Catholic teaching, but someone else’s post. Mannyfit’s a great guy, but he doesn’t speak ex cathedra.

True I can’t speak Ex-Cathedra but I can speak what teachings of the Church are dogmatic and doctrine, and why we ought to trust our mother the Church.

I like to preach the Divine Revelation of Jesus Christ. The Church’s belief is centered on him. For the Church is the Pillar and Bulwark of Truth. I have trust in the Lord Jesus Christ that He will preserve the Church until His Return when the Lamb of God marries His Bride, the Church.

Everyone will be held accountible both the righteous and those who do evil, or reject Jesus Christ, and obey all his commandments when they die, and at Judgement Day.

 

[bengal_fan]

i haven’t read all of the responses in this thread but as the question seems to be asking for individual experiences, i don’t think it’s necessary to read them all before sharing my own.

i went to elementary school and CCD. was baptized, received first communion, and was confirmed in the catholic church. that is where my education (for a time) stopped when it came to doctrine and “what the church actually teaches”. i had a conversion experience during high school and began to live my faith more and more. i attended mass every Sunday, but it seemed so dry to me (please don’t take offense, this is my personal experience) while the protestant church i went to felt so alive. the people actually liked each other. i had great experiences with the priests and nuns at the parish i grew up in but i was so bored by mass while the protestant service was engaging. i went to mass every Sunday until i moved out of my parent’s house (that was the deal with my mom). i began to study theology more and more. i started doing student ministry. i had nothing against the catholic church (in fact, to this day i believe in transubstantiation, how this is done i might disagree with the catholic church on, but i believe Jesus is truly present in communion body, soul, divinity) but i had (and still do) the understanding that if we claim Christ as Lord according to the ancient Creeds, then we are a part of His Body (the Church). i began to do student ministry full time. i moved from the area i grew up in to a new area to head up a ministry. this ministry was inter-denominational (meaning we had supporters from many different denomination, including catholics) and i liked the feel of that. there were some supporters here who had some sort of relationship to Scott Hahn (who i had never heard of) and told me some of his story. there were some similarities between him and me so i bought Rome Sweet Home and read it. i was shocked. i had attended Scott’s wife’s father’s (catch all that?) church in college. we knew many of the same people, why was he so convinced that the catholic church was the one true church? i wrote him a letter and asked if i could speak with him. he graciously allowed me to come to his home (i was 1 1/2 hours away so not a bad drive) and pick his brain for an afternoon. i walked away from that conversation with an interest in finding the truth. he gave me a ton of books and tapes and i poured over them as well as lots of other books. it has been close to 2 years that i have been reading catholic doctrine and history. i feel i understand what the church actually teaches on many, many subjects. all that to say, i still am not completely on board with the claim that they are the one true church. i have great respect for the position of the pope (as well as the man, Benedict is an amazing thinker as was JPII) but i see all Christian churches as being part of the same body. i am still reading and searching, but as of now, i don’t see myself “swimming the Tiber” anytime soon. not because i am against the church by any means (read any of my posts and hopefully you’ll see a deep appreciation for that wing of Christianity), i am just not convinced by all the claims of the catholic church and i don’t agree with Scott’s assessment that if the catholic church isn’t what she claims to be, then she is of the devil. my mind isn’t that black and white.

 

[Lampo]

i haven’t read all of the responses in this thread but as the question seems to be asking for individual experiences, i don’t think it’s necessary to read them all before sharing my own.

i went to elementary school and CCD. was baptized, received first communion, and was confirmed in the catholic church. that is where my education (for a time) stopped when it came to doctrine and “what the church actually teaches”. i had a conversion experience during high school and began to live my faith more and more. i attended mass every Sunday, but it seemed so dry to me (please don’t take offense, this is my personal experience) while the protestant church i went to felt so alive. the people actually liked each other. i had great experiences with the priests and nuns at the parish i grew up in but i was so bored by mass while the protestant service was engaging. i went to mass every Sunday until i moved out of my parent’s house (that was the deal with my mom). i began to study theology more and more. i started doing student ministry. i had nothing against the catholic church (in fact, to this day i believe in transubstantiation, how this is done i might disagree with the catholic church on, but i believe Jesus is truly present in communion body, soul, divinity) but i had (and still do) the understanding that if we claim Christ as Lord according to the ancient Creeds, then we are a part of His Body (the Church). i began to do student ministry full time. i moved from the area i grew up in to a new area to head up a ministry. this ministry was inter-denominational (meaning we had supporters from many different denomination, including catholics) and i liked the feel of that. there were some supporters here who had some sort of relationship to Scott Hahn (who i had never heard of) and told me some of his story. there were some similarities between him and me so i bought Rome Sweet Home and read it. i was shocked. i had attended Scott’s wife’s father’s (catch all that?) church in college. we knew many of the same people, why was he so convinced that the catholic church was the one true church? i wrote him a letter and asked if i could speak with him. he graciously allowed me to come to his home (i was 1 1/2 hours away so not a bad drive) and pick his brain for an afternoon. i walked away from that conversation with an interest in finding the truth. he gave me a ton of books and tapes and i poured over them as well as lots of other books. it has been close to 2 years that i have been reading catholic doctrine and history. i feel i understand what the church actually teaches on many, many subjects. all that to say, i still am not completely on board with the claim that they are the one true church. i have great respect for the position of the pope (as well as the man, Benedict is an amazing thinker as was JPII) but i see all Christian churches as being part of the same body. i am still reading and searching, but as of now, i don’t see myself “swimming the Tiber” anytime soon. not because i am against the church by any means (read any of my posts and hopefully you’ll see a deep appreciation for that wing of Christianity), i am just not convinced by all the claims of the catholic church and i don’t agree with Scott’s assessment that if the catholic church isn’t what she claims to be, then she is of the devil. my mind isn’t that black and white.

Thanks for sharing BengalFan (who dey, as I once called you). Don’t stop investigating! I’m sure you’ll eventually come back to your faith.

 

[danonwaveland]

i had nothing against the catholic church (in fact, to this day i believe in transubstantiation, how this is done i might disagree with the catholic church on, but i believe Jesus is truly present in communion body, soul, divinity).

Very nice story. God bless you! The quote above reminds of Fr. Groschel’s oft-repeated story of the elderly black Baptist ladies who come for Adoration and exclaim that they know the “Sweet Lord Jesus” is really present!

I used to be bored at mass until I realized – in my own very, very small way – what a wonderful gift the Eucharist is, and how the liturgy leads up to that wonderful moment of union with our “Sweet Lord Jesus” and the quiet adoration spent afterwards. Years ago, I used to enjoy the priests who ad-libbed the Eucharistic Prayers to make them more “relevant,” but now I feel that the words of the mass are just so perfect as they are. Somehow, I don’t tire of them as I pray along to the Father. To change them would be like paraphrasing a Walt Whitman or Joyce Kilmer poem – it ain’t gonna come out right!

At the beginning of mass, when the priest says, “May the grace of our Lord, Jesus Christ, the love of God, our Father, and the fellowship of the Holy Spirit be with you always” – I think I got that right – I am just “blown away” by the beauty of that wish! What a nice thing to say to someone! And, later, we proclaim "Holy, holy, holy. Lord God Almighty. . . " in chorus with the angels. Like Scott Hahn says in “The Lamb’s Supper,” we’re right there before the throne of our God! If we could really see where we are, we’d die from the glory! How merciful God is to give us only what we can handle. Sorry for the ramble.

Thanks again for your post and God bless!

 

[Delraek]

I have a friend who left Catholicism for the Baptist faith and truly “believes” that she knows what the Church teaches: worship of statues, vain repetition, etc. And the worst of it is that I’ve explained many, many times in e-mails what the Church truly teaches and she chooses to ignore me!

Can anyone tell me why that is? Is it some kind of guilty feeling on her part that won’t let her accept what I’m telling her? Does she think that I’m trying to deceive her? I don’t get it. (I have told her that I just want people to know what the Catholic Church truly teaches even if they choose not to agree!)

 

[maryj]

Hahahahaha…

I do not claim to understand everything about the Church – that kind of study takes entire lifetimes, and very, very few even among Catholics understand everything about it. However, I am quite well catechized, not by virtue of the couple-few years I spent in a Catholic elementary school but more from the several years after that during which I was homeschooled by my orthodox-to-a-fault parents.

I know quite well what the Church teaches in many respects. It’s not a comprehensive or perfect knowledge by any means, but it’s better than most Catholics have. And while I disagree with Church teaching on some issues, that isn’t why I fell away. I was more than willing to shut up and obey. I left because I just don’t get this ‘faith’ thing: much like the apostle Thomas, I can’t believe in something I can’t see and touch (metaphorically speaking). There’s something in the mind you guys have that I don’t. And honestly I’m not sure who’s better off.

Oh no, here you are wrong about Thomas. Thomas was brave, he understood that witnessing to Christ through personal courageous behavior was the key to being credible when preaching Christ’s message(John 11:16)" Let us go and die with Him" did he falter? Yes like all the apostles, save John, he was the most prominent doubter of the reserrection. But, by the grace of Jesus, Thomas would be BROUGHT to faith and use words prayed ever since by those adoring Christ in the Blessed Sacrament, “My Lord and my God”. So you may be like Thomas in the fact that you need to see to believe but don’t forget that he was brought to faith by Jesus, like all of us. Don’t give up, you will be better off with Jesus.

 

[qui_est_ce]

i haven’t read all of the responses in this thread but as the question seems to be asking for individual experiences, i don’t think it’s necessary to read them all before sharing my own.

Hi Bengal,
Thank you for your witness. I have been listening to Scott Hahn’s tapes and CD’s and reading his books for about 12 years now. He has been and continues to be a wonderful source of learning for me and many Catholics. His witness has opened a whole new field of apologetics in a short period of time. You are so blessed to have been able to meet with him.

I think a lot of the dryness you felt in the CC is the result of watered down ritual. The CC has such a richness to it, incense, candles, smells, daily mass, rosary, confession, chant. The Communion of Saints. It feeds the soul and the intellect.

Also remember, you did a lot of your adult religious education in a nonCatholic environment. A lot of Catholics stop their learning journey at Confirmation.

God bless you on your journey.

 

[mary_bobo]

I have a friend who left Catholicism for the Baptist faith and truly “believes” that she knows what the Church teaches: worship of statues, vain repetition, etc. And the worst of it is that I’ve explained many, many times in e-mails what the Church truly teaches and she chooses to ignore me!

Can anyone tell me why that is? Is it some kind of guilty feeling on her part that won’t let her accept what I’m telling her? Does she think that I’m trying to deceive her? I don’t get it. (I have told her that I just want people to know what the Catholic Church truly teaches even if they choose not to agree!)

Could it be that she is trying to justify in her own mind that what she has done is right, even though in the deep recesses of her sould she knows it is not?

 

[DrewC]

The one and only reason I left is because I want to get into a ministry career and get married and I cant do that in the Catholic Church. I still agree with all of the teachings of the Church and will always hold them near and dear to my heart but I feel called into another direction.

 

[Mirdath]

The one and only reason I left is because I want to get into a ministry career and get married and I cant do that in the Catholic Church. I still agree with all of the teachings of the Church and will always hold them near and dear to my heart but I feel called into another direction.

You do know about the permanent diaconate, right?