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Delraek
Guest
Thanks for clearing that up! I couldn’t find a mention of Japheth’s daughter anywhere. (Japheth is one of Noah’s sons.)
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Keikiolu
Guest
Jephthah made a thing which is not to be made in vain. A vow.
God never supports NOT honoring a vow. The vow is ALWAYS “a vow” (a complete commitment) whatever the “specifics” of the vow.
This is a morality tale to show us that to lightly make a vow is a very serious offense toward God, and that even God will allow a thing that He Himself utterly abhors to illustrate this important point.
Just as we are sinners, and just as the people of the Church are allowed by God to sin in incredibly evil ways, their sins and resultant evils will NOT cause God to abandom them, as yet again a greater good will come of even the greatest evil.
This story has probably caused huge multitudes of people to not make vain vows, because they don’t want to end up in the pitiful position of Jephthah.
To make excuses that Jephthah’s daughter didn’t REALLY get sacrificed is to dilute the exemplar story of the wickedness of human sacrifice.
Mahalo ke Akua…!
E pili mau na pomaika
i ia oe. Aloha nui.
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maryj
Guest
Just in case you don’t know…
The method of interpreting the bible, which attempts to go back to the original intent of it’s authors by analyzing their times,culture,language, and other circumstances is called the "contextual approach. which is the approach that most catholic biblical scholars use.
As a general rule, it is safe to say that if an Old Testament passage attributes something to God that we cannot attribute to Jesus Christ then that passage is probably not to be taken in a literal sense. those who lived 500 years before Christ did not comprehend the difference between causing and allowing. They thought that God caused everything, including evil (see Ex11:10)
god did not change, but people did in terms of their abbilityto hear what God was saying to them. There is a development of doctrine in the biblical books, and the more we know of the history and formation of the bible, the better we will understand it.
The editors who constructed the Pentateuch, the first five books of the bible, about 550 years before Christ, wanted to give the Israelites stability and assurances.They had been uprooted and exiled by the Babylonians. those who returned were tempted to abandon God for pagan dieties and believe pagan myths teaching that evil and chaos guided human destiny. The editors wanted to turn the Israelites from such errors to the solid traditions handed down by Abraham and Moses. They recorded the often told stories about their ancestors who had followed God’s will. They taught that God exsisted, that God created all good things, and that evil was not a divinity but the consequences of sinful choices made by human beings.
So your right Lukewarm, Ot and NT God is the same, it is humans that changed. You should have done a little more research and let the church that Jesus Christ founded guide you as apposed to guiding your self. THAT"S where we always go wrong. Sorry for throwing this thread off track, but just couldn’t help but see a teaching moment here.
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qui_est_ce
Guest
Dear Maryj, thank you for your well-put reply. I find that Fundamentalists also have the problem of not understanding that one must know the context, the times, the culture in order to accurately understand the Bible. There are so many fine nuances which cannot be known from a superficial reading of the texts. Then there is the twisting of verses out of context that creates false idealogy. Thank goodness we have 2,000 years of Church Fathers and Magesterium to open our eyes to the richness and truth of Scripture.
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BigFeet
Guest
AMEN!
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maryj
Guest
Sorry…I’m gonna do it again…warning off track again!!! so here’s something I read that explains exactly what you have stated.
Every morning thousands of americans sit down to a cup of coffee and the morning newspaper.We look through the front page news, check out the sports headlines, browse the advertisements, read an editorial, scan some popular columns, and enjoy the comics. without even knowing it we are engaging in a sophisticated form of literary analysis. As we page through the various sections, we instinctively catogorize many different forms of writing and interpret them accordingly. we look for one kind of information on the front page, another in the editorials. we draw one type of information from our favorite columnists, another from the advertisements. We eagerly read about the “giants” and the “angels” on the sports page and laugh about the antics of talking dogs and feisty cats in the comics.
We might wonder what is so sophisticated about reading the paper. Now imagine the following senario… In the yr 2000 the earth is struck by an immense meteor. Most people are killed by the impact and the disturbances that follow. The few who survive are reduced to living in caves. They begin the difficult process of rebuilding civilization. By the year 5000 they have reached the point of doing scholarly research about ancient cultures, including the U.S. in the late twentieth century. Under the rubble of three thousand years they find ancient documents and anylyze them until they can begin to translate “english” into their own language. One day archeologists discover pieces of newspaper , they eventually decipher a front page story about a robbery. “Guard guns down bandit, trying to steal companies payroll,” they read helped in their analysis by a picture of the bandit lying in a pool of blood. Next they discover parts of the sports section" Crowd cheers as New York catcher guns down St. Louis runner trying to steal second base" Imagine the shock, they come to the conclusion that americans enjoyed sporting events where contestants fought to the death. Further confusion when they find a section of the comics. They wonder: “Did dogs talk in the old days and did cats push their owners around?” They remain baffled until further finds of newspapers and literature give them an improved knowledge of english and american culture. They discover that “gunning down a runner” on the sports page means something quite different then" gunning down a bandit" on the front page. the task of the fiftieth century archeologist would be to enter into the minds of twentieth-century americans, to learn our culture, to understand our language, to find out what EACH writer had intended. Much study would be required before they could interpret out writings. What twentieth century americans do so easily and without thinking might be a very demanding chore after the passage of three thousand years.
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lukewarm
Guest
According to your Bible women shouldn’t be teaching over men, will you go to confession for this heinous sin?
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Keikiolu
Guest
Yet another addition to the old trusty /ignore list.
People are really SO good about identifying themselves as worthy for inclusion on that most blood-pressure sparing tool…!
Thanks for increasing my /ignore list population, Luke…!
Best to you all, and especially to Luke, who could certainly use all the best of everything due to an apparent lack of several very important items in his quiver.
Mahalo ke Akua…!
E pili mau na pomaika
i ia oe. Aloha nui.
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lukewarm
Guest
And yet one more CA forum member who shines bright with the light of Christ… LMFAO get over yourself and your ignore list, who cares, put me on ignore, but what’s the point of advertising it? $50 you reply to this…Yet another addition to the old trusty /ignore list.
People are really SO good about identifying themselves as worthy for inclusion on that most blood-pressure sparing tool…!
Thanks for increasing my /ignore list population, Luke…!
Best to you all, and especially to Luke, who could certainly use all the best of everything due to an apparent lack of several very important items in his quiver.
Mahalo ke Akua…!
E pili mau na pomaikai iaoe. Aloha nui.
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MariaG
Guest
Since Delraek answered most of this well, I will just repost it.Hi BrewMax,
I don’t know if you’re at all interested, but Dr. Scott Hahn was in the same mindset you are currently in when it comes to the Church’s teaching on Mary, and he did a LOT of study on the subject. He has written some books that might help to shed some light on the subject. Even if you don’t agree, you might still find them interesting?
On a side note, none of the items you listed are contrary to Scripture. They are just not found “explicitly” - there is a difference. (And the idea that purgatory has “levels” is new to me.)
God bless
But I will also add that the Church does not in fact teach that there are “levels” of purgatory although it may be a popular thought, it is not an official teaching.
Also odd that one would deny that the one who gave birth to the Christ had “nothing to do with” our salvation. Could God have picked someone else? Sure. Did He have to? No, because Mary said Yes, in perfect obeidience to God. It is through that Yes, that we were given Christ. Acknowledging that fact takes nothing away from Christ and His sacrifice. Why? Because as scripture says, Mary’s soul magnifies the Lord.
But hey, if you don’t wany to look at the Lord up close and magnified…
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maryj
Guest
A real man would not have made a statment like this. OOOPPPss off to the confessional:wave:
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lukewarm
Guest
So Paul isn’t a “real man”? I took his teaching…
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Keikiolu
Guest
Hey,… I’m up for getting $50 bucks from 'ya…!
Just because you’re on my ignore list doesn’t mean that I’m PROHIBITED from reading your thoroughly enjoyable rants of incongruity.
By the way,… what does the “F” in LMFAO refer to…?
Christ suggested that we Christians “shake the dust” of folks like yourself off our sandals.
That’s what the /ignore switch is.
Best to you, you typical profane adolescent.
Mahalo ke Akua…!
E pili mau na pomaika
i ia oe. Aloha nui.
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lukewarm
Guest
What a fool, keep “ignoring me” you drama queen… You’re a nasty thing Christ may love you but everyone else thinks you’re an *******…Hey,… I’m up for getting $50 bucks from 'ya…!
Just because you’re on my ignore list doesn’t mean that I’m PROHIBITED from reading your thoroughly enjoyable rants of incongruity.
By the way,… what does the “F” in LMFAO refer to…?
Christ suggested that we Christians “shake the dust” of folks like yourself off our sandals.
That’s what the /ignore switch is.
Best to you, you typical profane adolescent.
Mahalo ke Akua…!
E pili mau na pomaikai iaoe. Aloha nui.
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Keikiolu
Guest
So when is this LukeWarm-ified thread going to be mercifully closed…!?
…Oh MODERATOR…!? Yoo-hoo…!!
…Oh MODERATOR…!? Yoo-hoo…!!
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lukewarm
Guest
Still ignoring me I see, I guess integrity isn’t in your vocabulary? You want to insult sling mud then cry to the moderator? Again no integrity at all.
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qui_est_ce
Guest
Dear Maryj, Again, a masterpiece. Will they find the weather section which says it was “raining cats and dogs” and translate it literally, saying, “in those days, cats and dogs fell out of the sky.”
Your analogy shows why it is so important to rely on Magesterium, and not our own puny minds.
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Keikiolu
Guest
Silly little thing…
You seem to be under a misconception as to what the “ignore switch” does.
It merely “hides” the content of your drivel, but I’m perfectly free to open up your posts should I wish to, which I occassionally do.
That this subtlety has evaded you is no surprise.
Anyway,… the moderator is my worst friend, so I CERTAINLY don’t resort to calling in “Momma” lightly.
It’s just too tempting to goad you on in your self-revelatory kicking-and-screaming to pass up…!
You’re really MORE than a little entertaining,… though on a very juvenile level.
So,… I’ll just let you be you and illustrate the “fantabulism” that is “lukewarm”.
I noticed you don’t capitalize your name. Wise choice.
Trivialities should never be capitalized.
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maryj
Guest
Can you say “out of context” read it again.
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elvisman
Guest
Uhhh, no - you MIStook his teaching.
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