As Christians should our forgiveness be conditional on the other person's repentance?

[fisherman_carl]

I had always thought that Christians were supposed to forgive no matter what. However, after reading this article by Jimmy Akin he seems to be ascribing a conditional forgiveness, based on whether the person repents or not. He says we should be willing to forgive them if they repent, as God forgives us, but we are not obligated to forgive if the offender does not repent. He does say if the person does not repent we should let go of the anger, etc for our own health, and to pray for the person.

catholic.com/magazine/articles/the-limits-of-forgiveness

 

[Hatikvah]

Forgive forever:

Then Peter having come near to Him, said, “Sir, how often shall my brother sin against me, and I forgive him—till seven times?”

Jesus saith to him, “I do not say to thee till seven times, but till seventy times seven.” (Matthew 18:21-22, YLT)

There are other verses: Matthew 7:2; Matthew 6:14–15; Matthew 18:23–35; Mark 11:25; Luke 17:3–4; Ephesians 4:31–32; Colossians 3:13

I’ve listened to Jimmy Akin before, but perhaps he meant something more particular, not necessarily the whole category of “conditional forgiveness?”

 

[Rosebud77]

I disagree with the person.

Forgiveness is a grace given to us to give. There can be no conditions on it as then it would not be forgiveness… Forgive us our trespasses as we forgive those who trespass against us.

I learned this in a hard school…

Today I have been accused of terrible things by people who have acted with hostility for along time. Yes i forgive but that does not mean not taking action to remedy the situation.

No conditions, no holding back, no not easy but it gets easier as you go on, Today I have no anger only hurt and sorrow.

What they do is their responsibilty not mine. . So I cannot judge them which making forgiveness conditional would be doing. That is not forgiveness!

 

[thistle]

We are forgiven by God on the condition that we are truly sorry for the sins we have committed. As we are to forgive others as God have forgiven us does that not mean that we are obliged to forgive others if they are sorry but not obliged to forgive them if they are not sorry.

 

[fisherman_carl]

We are forgiven by God on the condition that we are truly sorry for the sins we have committed. As we are to forgive others as God have forgiven us does that not mean that we are obliged to forgive others if they are sorry but not obliged to forgive them if they are not sorry.

According to Jimmy’s article we are supposed to be always willing to forgive. However, our obligation to forgive is only there if the person is repentant, just like he says God does not forgive unrepentant people. Why would God expect us to do something he himself does not? Otherwise we would all be walking around in a state of grace regardless of the condition of our soul.

Now, he does say the obligation is not there to forgive the unrepentant, but that it may be meritorious to do so, providing our forgiveness does not encourage them to transgress again.

To quote Jimmy

We aren’t obligated to forgive people who do not want us to. This is one of the biggest stumbling blocks that people have regarding the topic. People have seen “unconditional” forgiveness and love hammered so often that they feel obligated to forgive someone even before that person has repented. Sometimes they even tell the unrepentant that they have preemptively forgiven him (much to the impenitent’s annoyance).

This is not what is required of us.

Consider Luke 17:3–4, where Jesus tells us, “If your brother sins, rebuke him, and if he repents, forgive him; and if he sins against you seven times in the day, and turns to you seven times, and says, ‘I repent,’ you must forgive him.”

Notice that Jesus says to forgive him if he repents, not regardless of whether he does so. Jesus also envisions the person coming back to you and admitting his wrong.

The upshot? If someone isn’t repentant, you don’t have to forgive him.

If you do forgive him anyway, that can be meritorious, provided it doesn’t otherwise have bad effects (e.g., encouraging future bad behavior). But it isn’t required of us that we forgive the person.

This may strike some people as odd. They may have heard unconditional love and forgiveness preached so often that the idea of not indiscriminately forgiving everybody sounds unspiritual to them. They might even ask, “But wouldn’t it be more spiritual to forgive everyone?”

I sympathize with this argument, but there is a two-word rejoinder to it: God doesn’t.

 

[St_Francis]

The way I see forgiveness is that a bad act puts up two walls between the transgressors and victim. The victim forgives by taking down his wall. The transgressor takes down his wall by asking for forgiveness.

The way I see taking down the wall as a victim is to hand over my claims to God: I let go of my answer, desire to “teach the other a lesson,” etc, and turn the transgressors over to God, Who has a claim against everyone who transgresses.

 

[Exiled_Child]

I disagree with the person.

Forgiveness is a grace given to us to give. There can be no conditions on it as then it would not be forgiveness… Forgive us our trespasses as we forgive those who trespass against us.

I learned this in a hard school…

Today I have been accused of terrible things by people who have acted with hostility for along time. Yes i forgive but that does not mean not taking action to remedy the situation.

No conditions, no holding back, no not easy but it gets easier as you go on, Today I have no anger only hurt and sorrow.

What they do is their responsibilty not mine. . So I cannot judge them which making forgiveness conditional would be doing. That is not forgiveness!

Well said, Rosebud77. I’m in the same boat as you, by the way.

 

[Rosebud77]

Well said, Rosebud77. I’m in the same boat as you, by the way.

Thank you; been up sick all night with this … But I know this is the way, not to render evil for evil. Because that is what it comes to isn’t it?

 

[acadiANNA]

I believe that you must forgive those who hurt or offend you in some way. I forgive, no matter what, and the transgression is no longer remembered. I forget it, as though it never happened. I look at the person with the same kindness and caring as before. Now, I have been hurt, but the person was not sorry. I still forgive. I have to face God one day and give an account of my actions. I won’t have to give an account of the other person. So, I choose to forgive unconditionally. Also, you should never repeat to anyone how the person offended you, unless it is to the person privately, Priest, or Counselor. (Read Matthew 18:16-17). This is how you love one another. Actually, my parents had us forgive and forget as we were growing up. Does not God forgive and forget our sins once we have confessed them to the Priest?

 

[fisherman_carl]

I don’t think Jimmy is saying we shouldn’t forgive the unrepentant, only that we are not obligated to do so. It does sound strange since I have never heard this before. But, on the one hand it makes sense that God would not require us to forgive the unrepentant if he himself does not. On the other hand Jesus himself prayed for forgiveness from the Cross.

I asked a priest about this tonight and he said that for(give)ness is a gift and its before (for), meaning our hearts are to be ready to give this gift to someone who comes to repantantly reconcile with us. In order to do this I think we have in a sense to forgive them in our heart before they ask, or at least be able to forgive them. So that when they do come to us we are able to do it. Of course dealing with the emotional aspect is difficult and not completely in our control. So we need grace from God to do it if we have been hurt badly.

 

[Rosebud77]

I don’t think Jimmy is saying we shouldn’t forgive the unrepentant, only that we are not obligated to do so. It does sound strange since I have never heard this before. But, on the one hand it makes sense that God would not require us to forgive the unrepentant if he himself does not. On the other hand Jesus himself prayed for forgiveness from the Cross.

I asked a priest about this tonight and he said that for(give)ness is a gift and its before (for), meaning our hearts are to be ready to give this gift to someone who comes to repantantly reconcile with us. In order to do this I think we have in a sense to forgive them in our heart before they ask, or at least be able to forgive them. So that when they do come to us we are able to do it. Of course dealing with the emotional aspect is difficult and not completely in our control. So we need grace from God to do it if we have been hurt badly.

You make it so complicated. WHat I am up against now is from people who seem not to know they wrong they have done or the pain they have caused. In theri eyes, they have done nothing wrong and they will never admit or believe they have

The onus is on my awareness that they must still be forgiven else I will die inside a little .

I ache for them but I have to take action to protect myself. Prison at my age would not be funny and no would being prosecuted… After the Gardai left I went on trading, smiling laughing but my heart weeps.

 

[Rosebud77]

We are all ignoring the words of Jesus on the Cross… Father forgive them for they know not what they do… No penitence there any more than in the ones who murdered the french priest

 

[fisherman_carl]

We are all ignoring the words of Jesus on the Cross… Father forgive them for they know not what they do… No penitence there any more than in the ones who murdered the french priest

I never ignored that as i mentioned that in my last post.

 

[fisherman_carl]

You make it so complicated. WHat I am up against now is from people who seem not to know they wrong they have done or the pain they have caused. In theri eyes, they have done nothing wrong and they will never admit or believe they have

The onus is on my awareness that they must still be forgiven else I will die inside a little .

I ache for them but I have to take action to protect myself. Prison at my age would not be funny and no would being prosecuted… After the Gardai left I went on trading, smiling laughing but my heart weeps.

All I was saying was that even if we are not obligated to forgive the unrepentant we still must be willing to forgive if they repent. Since our forgiveness is based on our willingness to forgive. Otherwise how could we forgive? This requires in a sense a letting go of the anger and bitterness. It may not require trusting them again. And it doesn’t mean we do not hold them accountable, or wish to see justice done. Nor does it mean what they did was not wrong, or that we can just forget it like it never happened. But, if they don’t want to repent then we need to pray for them and to let go of the anger for our own well being. . This of course takes time since we are not in complete control of our emotions, but can only influence them. We allow justice to be in Gods hands.

What i mean is that if someone remains unrepentant, even for years, perhaps in order for us to be willing to forgive them we must come to a place where we can forgive them in our heart first so that if they ever do ask for our forgiveness we are ready to offer it to them.

The parable of the unmerciful servant he was thrown into jail because he was not willing to forgive his servant’s small debt despite being pardoned of his own massive debt. Yet, even in this parable his servant begged for his forgiveness. He was not unrepentant, yet the unmerciful servant did not forgive. The story speaks of our obligation to forgive everyone who is repentant before us coming from the fact that we have first been forgiven from God. Such that if we want to receive mercy for our own transgressions, we must be willing to also give mercy to those who have transgressed us.

And in anger his master delivered him to the jailers,k until he should pay all his debt. 35So also my heavenly Father will do to every one of you, if you do not forgive your brother from your heart.”

 

[ChurchSoldier]

Matthew 6:14 For if you forgive other people when they sin against you, your heavenly Father will also forgive you. 15 But if you do not forgive others their sins, your Father will not forgive your sins.

I looked up this verse and then read the article and saw he mentioned it. The basic concept, is we forgive for our benefit not the one who hurt us. Forgiveness does not mean reconciliation though, it just means not expecting repayment for the harm done.

And we must remember, it’s a good idea to be persistent in our prayer for the other persons repentance. After all, if Paul’s heart could be changed, anyone’s could.

Pax

 

[Peter_Plato]

I had always thought that Christians were supposed to forgive no matter what. However, after reading this article by Jimmy Akin he seems to be ascribing a conditional forgiveness, based on whether the person repents or not. He says we should be willing to forgive them if they repent, as God forgives us, but we are not obligated to forgive if the offender does not repent. He does say if the person does not repent we should let go of the anger, etc for our own health, and to pray for the person.

catholic.com/magazine/articles/the-limits-of-forgiveness

There is a very good PragerU video on forgiveness.

I suspect most people use the word too loosely to be of any real use to them. The video points out three kinds of forgiveness and how they ought to be applied to others contingent upon the state of the other person. It is worth a look because it deals with the distinctions Jimmy Akin is makin’ (and short.)

youtu.be/6xsVM_gd0Tc

 

[fisherman_carl]

There is a very good PragerU video on forgiveness.

I suspect most people use the word too loosely to be of any real use to them. The video points out three kinds of forgiveness and how they ought to be applied to others contingent upon the state of the other person. It is worth a look because it deals with the distinctions Jimmy Akin is makin’ (and short.)

youtu.be/6xsVM_gd0Tc

Thanks, I will check that out.

 

[acadiANNA]

Now somewhere I heard, I don’t know if it’s a priest who said it in a homily, or what: The Our Father prayer says “forgive us our trespasses as we forgive those who trespass against us.” It doesn’t say unless they are unrepentant.