As Promised...

[teachccd]

There can be no protesting in heaven. There we will be one in all…On earth where pride and sin prevail division will continue. Don’t believe me? Let’s see what Jesus says about this. "**Do not think that I have come to bring peace on earth; I have not come to bring peace, but a sword. **
**For I have come to set a man against his father, and a daughter against her mother, and a daughter-in-law against her mother-in-law; **
and a man’s foes will be those of his own household." ( Matthew 10:34-36)

 

[Hellisreal]

Singingbeauty, I think I know where things went wrong here from my end.

After reading Cats last post, I have to say that really helped me see why I feel the way I do.

Ecumenical endeavors like the ones described here, I have nothing against.
Personally though, I just dont have time or inclination to attend them.
My parish has a ton of ministries, and what it does not have surrounding parishes do have. I can not even think of a single thing protestants are doing that is not being done by the Catholic Church in this way. So, I involve myself with ministries I can/have time or talent to help.
Thats real life. Now in regard to the internet, I do not go to Protestant forums and try to evangelize or expose errors protestants have about us there. I am a Catholic on a Catholic forum. I see posts from falling away Catholics so routinely here and often wonder if some Protestants are simply here to nab them at a weak moment. Sorry, but I am being honest here.

I agree with another poster, (was it cat again?) that there should be a seperate section for protestants where they can not evangelize but can defend their beliefs. But, I dont make the rules here, and am not much for protesting. LOL.

I hope you understand that.

 

[St_Violet]

The problem is that it is not only the protestants that have the weapons. BOTH sides need to put them down in order for there to be a peace between us so that we can work together. And I totally think it’s possible./QUOTE]

Th only weapon the Catholic CHurch has is their stances they feel really confident about. for instance, the Catholic Church will not change it’s stance on issues on abortion, Divorce, Ordaination of women, condems and birth control so that it can suit the needs of the protestants of the 20ths century, which is why alot of protestants will not unite with the Catholic Church, and that is just one example.

another one I just gave was, sola sciptura the cause of division amongst the Catholic Church and Protestantism. the Catholic Church unlike the Protestant which realizes scripture cannot be interprete without guidance as the Prostestants who feel they can interprete the bible themselves and without the guidance that was passed down since the apostles.

 

[Singinbeauty]

I agree with another poster, (was it cat again?) that there should be a seperate section for protestants where they can not evangelize but can defend their beliefs. But, I dont make the rules here, and am not much for protesting. LOL.

I hope you understand that.

Thanx for that!

But this does beg the questions:

#1. Can you defend you beliefs without evangelizing? We lead by example and by the WAY we defend doesn’t that get someone else thinking therefore evangelizing them in a backdoor sort of way?

#2. Can you defend your beliefs without getting defensive therefore getting offensive? This is the point of this thread.

 

[Hellisreal]

I will come back later singing beauty, I have to go now.

 

[Singinbeauty]

Singinbeauty;2300805:

The problem is that it is not only the protestants that have the weapons. BOTH sides need to put them down in order for there to be a peace between us so that we can work together. And I totally think it’s possible.

Th only weapon the Catholic CHurch has is their stances they feel really confident about. for instance, the Catholic Church will not change it’s stance on issues on abortion, Divorce, Ordaination of women, condems and birth control so that it can suit the needs of the protestants of the 20ths century, which is why alot of protestants will not unite with the Catholic Church, and that is just one example.

another one I just gave was, sola sciptura the cause of division amongst the Catholic Church and Protestantism. the Catholic Church unlike the Protestant which realizes scripture cannot be interprete without guidance as the Prostestants who feel they can interprete the bible themselves and without the guidance that was passed down since the apostles.

I think we are having a miscommunication about what ‘weapons’ I am talking about. These weapons that I speak of are ones of words and physical force that push hate and misunderstanding from both sides on the other. I am not speaking about doctrinal differences. Just the way we bite at eachother about our differences. Each side’s ‘traditions’ are not the issue, it is the way we use these traditions to cause the division. Calling the other side heretical, evil, bigots, idiots, I could go on… is the problem and it needs to stop NOW…

I hope that makes more sense as to what this thread is about…

 

[Cat]

Hellisreal, I think that the Protestants should be given a section that they can use to EVANGELIZE us Catholics! But allow us to defend ourselves!

I think it would be great. I think it would be fun. The rules would be clear–fight all you want, just keep it clean and above the belt.

That way the peaceloving Catholics and Protestants (e.g., singinbeauty) could avoid that section and all the fights and the clawing and the scratching and the yowling, while Cats like me could jump right in with all four feet!

I really, really hate it when someone pretends, either in real life or online, to be friendly and loving, and then first chance they get, they tell you that you are in a false church and would you like to know the REAL Gospel of Jesus?

I would rather have someone come right out and say, “I’m here to convert you” then have them try this deceptive “friendship evangelism” nonsense. Hey, I love Rebecca Pippert, but what she was talking about was YEARS of practical love, not just a few friendly-sounding posts before revealing the TRUE motive–CONVERSION of non-Christians.

What would be really fun is to require everyone to first read a basic summary of Catholic teachings before being allowed to sign onto the “Protestant Evangelism Crusade” Section. It would be interesting to see if this education would put a damper on the evangelistic zeal. “Hey, wait a minute, this isn’t what Boettner said in his book!”

 

[Singinbeauty]

Hellisreal, I think that the Protestants should be given a section that they can use to EVANGELIZE us Catholics! But allow us to defend ourselves!

I think it would be great. I think it would be fun. The rules would be clear–fight all you want, just keep it clean and above the belt.

That way the peaceloving Catholics and Protestants (e.g., singinbeauty) could avoid that section and all the fights and the clawing and the scratching and the yowling, while Cats like me could jump right in with all four feet!

I really, really hate it when someone pretends, either in real life or online, to be friendly and loving, and then first chance they get, they tell you that you are in a false church and would you like to know the REAL Gospel of Jesus?

I would rather have someone come right out and say, “I’m here to convert you” then have them try this deceptive “friendship evangelism” nonsense. Hey, I love Rebecca Pippert, but what she was talking about was YEARS of practical love, not just a few friendly-sounding posts before revealing the TRUE motive–CONVERSION of non-Christians.

What would be really fun is to require everyone to first read a basic summary of Catholic teachings before being allowed to sign onto the “Protestant Evangelism Crusade” Section. It would be interesting to see if this education would put a damper on the evangelistic zeal. “Hey, wait a minute, this isn’t what Boettner said in his book!”

On the forums that are linked in my sig there is a place for this kind of stuff because while I like to go for peace I do understand that there are things that people need to get off their chest. Some people like to argue but it gets tiresome to hear them whining about it! I named it ‘Controversial Talk’ and while I try to moderate it (or would like to if more people came to play) I do try to be leniant because those who are majorly gung-ho need a place to say their peace. Who knows if it will get off the ground but I am hoping it will…

 

[Hellisreal]

Hellisreal, I think that the Protestants should be given a section that they can use to EVANGELIZE us Catholics! But allow us to defend ourselves!

I guess we could take that thought a step farther and make ALL CATHOLICS pass that test too.
Might help some of the falling away too.

Just a thought…

 

[Hellisreal]

On the forums that are linked in my sig there is a place for this kind of stuff because while I like to go for peace I do understand that there are things that people need to get off their chest. Some people like to argue but it gets tiresome to hear them whining about it! I named it ‘Controversial Talk’ and while I try to moderate it (or would like to if more people came to play) I do try to be leniant because those who are majorly gung-ho need a place to say their peace. Who knows if it will get off the ground but I am hoping it will…

Singingbeauty, that is just one of the many things that bothers me here. Allowing Active promotion of other faiths here bothers me by way of advertising ect. Just my opinion.

Also, I am sorry if you dont like the word heretic. Would you suggest we not use it? And maybe instead use something like this: That belief you hold is one that the Gnostics also held, that were declared heretics…?
Something like that maybe? I really dont know how to sugar coat heresy.

 

[Ravyn_Guiliani]

#2. Can you defend your beliefs without getting defensive therefore getting offensive? This is the point of this thread.

how can anyone defend without being defensive? and how can someone control how another person decides to take their defense? If you mean just rudeness, well then yes—you do not HAVE to be rude about it. But Protestants are going to automatically take a Catholic defense as offensive and vice versa.
we may be able to unite as people for the duration of a particular project that we agree on, but the relgious issues will always be there until Protestants come home or Catholics leave the Church.
Ravyn

 

[Singinbeauty]

Singingbeauty, that is just one of the many things that bothers me here. Allowing Active promotion of other faiths here bothers me by way of advertising ect. Just my opinion.

Why shouldn’t I be able to promote my Faith? I feel that if I do this in a positive, charitable, non-evangelizing way that I should be able to do this. I am very proud of my Faith and it has taken me a long time to come to the point of where I am. Why would you be uncomfortable with someone expressing their views?

Also, I am sorry if you dont like the word heretic. Would you suggest we not use it? And maybe instead use something like this: That belief you hold is one that the Gnostics also held, that were declared heretics…?
Something like that maybe? I really dont know how to sugar coat heresy.

Well, seeing as how the term ‘heretic’ has become an almost swear word and a put-down on others it is a term that doesn’t need to be used. Call certain views heresy but calling someone a heretic outright just isn’t right.

I don’t need you to sugar coat anything for me. Unlike you I am not uncomfortable with someone expressing their views. They can be harsh and whils SOMETIMES it does bug me (I would be lying to say differently) I choose most of the time to just let it go.

 

[Hellisreal]

Why shouldn’t I be able to promote my Faith? I feel that if I do this in a positive, charitable, non-evangelizing way that I should be able to do this. I am very proud of my Faith and it has taken me a long time to come to the point of where I am. Why would you be uncomfortable with someone expressing their views?

 

[Cat]

Hellisreal, here’s Rebecca Pippert’s website:

saltshaker.org/

Long long ago, in a decade when I was just a youngin’, she wrote a book called Out of the Salt Shaker and Into the World–Evangelism as a Way of Life.

In this book, she talks about “friendship evangelism” and the concept of “earning the right to be heard.”

I was involved with Inter-Varsity and Campus Crusade when I was in college, and we did some work on this concept. The idea was that you didn’t have a right to just walk up to a stranger and start telling them the Good News about Jesus.

You had to EARN the right by becoming a true friend, not just saying a few “warm-up” phrases like a salesperson, but becoming a friend in deed as well as word, and staying in the friendship for the long haul, not just long enough to give you the chance to spew the Four Spiritual Laws and ask them to pray the Sinner’s Prayer.

Then and only then would you have the right to talk to them about your faith.

Frankly, I think this would be even better reading as a Catholic, because now I am more aware that lots of people are Christians, but they don’t all practice the same kind of Christianity that I do. Also, I am now aware that GOD determines who will go to heaven and hell, not humans.

So I think I would be more open-minded and willing to accept people where they are.

BTW, I would LOVE to see all my Protestant relatives and friends (the few I have left) become Catholic. But if they don’t, I am happy that they know Jesus. I think it is more important for us to evangelize the nonbelievers rather than preach to those who are already saved. I also think it is important that Catholics learn their own faith so that they don’t spread false perceptions about Catholicism.

 

[Hellisreal]

Hellisreal, here’s Rebecca Pippert’s website:

saltshaker.org/

 

[Cat]

But Hellisreal, at least Protestants who believe in OSAS have the Bible and the Holy Spirit to teach them, if they are willing to learn. Plus many of them have access to a glut of books, radio/tv programs (Catholic), etc. My husband and I were led into the Catholic Church by The Holy Spirit. No one came to us to evangelize us and at that time we didn’t know that online boards like this existed.

We had always “hungered and thirsted after righteousness,” and when we asked Jesus to lead us to His Church, He led us to the Catholic Church.

About a year after we prayed that prayer, we realized how the Lord had answered, and we said, “Wait a minute, Lord! We meant your PROTESTANT Church, not the Catholic Church!” But He knew what He was doing, didn’t He?

So I believe that Protestant Christians who sincerely seek HIm will find Him in the Catholic Church because “the Bible will tell them so” and the Holy Spirit will lead them.

There are people who have never heard of Jesus or who know about Him only as a swear word–I know that there are some provisions for the possible salvation of these souls, but I would like to see them, too, have the opportunity to know our Lord and receive Him and enjoy all the blessings of the Church and all the graces of the Sacraments while they are alive here on this earth. Why should we have all the joy and they miss out?

I just finished reading a book called How Not To Share Your Faith–The Seven Deadly Sins of Apologetics by Mark Brumley (amazon.com/How-Not-Share-Your-Faith/dp/1888992301)). The author said we should strive to spend more time with Muslims than Protestants, but this is hard because we all have a lot to learn about Islam.

 

[Hellisreal]

Very nice post Cat. Lots to think about there.