As Resurrection Sunday approaches

[Lev23]

Part of the reasoning for changing the date had to do with making the celebration of the resurrection always occur on a Sunday, vs. various days of the week.

shalom

Again, First Fruits(Easter or Resurrection Sunday) and Shavuot(Pentecost) always land on a Sunday.

 

[Lev23]

to anyone:

So just how did it come about that Easter is celebrated on days independent of when Passover is? Passover is at the same time every year according to the Jewish calendar, but Easter is all over the place.

shalom

Good question, sometimes Easter is on the wrong Sunday according to the Lunar calendar the Israelis use. Though the day of the week Christians celebrate it on is correct(Sunday).

 

[Mannyfit75]

The saddest part of your response is the fact that you had to even ask those questions.

Why don’t you read Exodus…understand the Passover and the significance of Jesus being the Passover lamb that was sacrificed and the other typologies. That’s how to celebrate it. Oh, and one other thing…undo the hundreds of years of anti-semitism and Judeo-phobia and move Resurrection day back to during Passover rather than de-Judaizing it as Constantine did who declared it illegal to celebrate Christ’s crucifiction during Passover thereby moving Christianity further into Greco-Romanism and further from her Hebraic roots.

The Book of Exodus is read during Holy Week. Have you ever been to a Catholic Mass during Holy Week?

 

[paidion]

Again, First Fruits(Easter or Resurrection Sunday) and Shavuot(Pentecost) always land on a Sunday.

Lev23,

You can’t possibly be looking at a Jewish calendar. Shavuot does not always start on a Sunday.

Good question, sometimes Easter is on the wrong Sunday according to the Lunar calendar the Israelis use.

huh? I’ve never seen Easter on a Hebrew calendar. As far as which calendar Israelis use - well, they might use a Hebrew, Muslim, or Christian calendar depending on which holidays they follow.

BTW, Shavuot occurs 50 days after the beginning of the counting of the omer (hence the name Pentecost - pente = 50). This places it long after Passover. Perhaps you are confusing Shavuot (latter first fruits) with Sfirat Ha Omer (early first fruits)?

shalom

 

[Charlie_Zeaiter]

errr…to what “astronomical observances” are you referring? The entire Jewish calendar reflects the lunar cycle. I’m not sure what scientific methods the early catholics used, but the Jews had no problem whatsoever determining when Passover was to occur every year.

Yes, the lunar cycle. Sorry, maybe “astronomical observances” was a bad term.

And you’re right, the Jews had no problem determining Passover. But they took too long. The early catholics were anxious to know the Easter date. I don’t know - maybe they wanted to submit vacation leave plans to their employers. Well, I’m being sarcastic. But I think you get my drift.

What I have read so far indicates that the date for celebrating Easter was set at the time of the council of Nicea (sp?). Part of the reasoning for changing the date had to do with making the celebration of the resurrection always occur on a Sunday, vs. various days of the week. (The reason it would change from year to year was because of the disparity between the Hebrew calendar and the Roman one.)

It’s true that they wanted to make Easter always fall on Sunday. It’s kind of like Jesus’ triumphant entry into Jerusalem. We celebrate that on Palm Sunday. But it actually occured on the Monday in the year of 33AD.

Some of the other things I have read indicate certain early Christians (because of their anti-Semitism) wanted to wipe out any references to the Jewish roots of the faith. I was trying to find out if any of this was true or not.

shalom

That’s a bit of a conspiracy theory that may - but probably not - be true.

It is true that in one of the early councils, it was said that Easter should not be celebrated with the Jews. It would be a poor interpretation to suggest that we must not celebrate it with the Jewish Passover, but rather, we should just be independent of the Jewish Passover. It actually happens - more often than not - that Easter does fall within the Passover festival period.

Someone in an earlier post on this thread made reference to kids and the fun (or no fun) they may/may not have celebrating the holiday.

That was me.

May I suggest that the amount of “fun” one can have should not be the determining factor on whether or not to promote or continue a certain celebration. Not hunting for eggs or the lack getting a chocolate rabbit has not caused my kids to miss out on any fun.

:ehh: Well, in our secular world that is material and distant form God, I think Christmas and Easter are our best chances for spreading the Gospel. Although, I whole hearteningly agree, the Gospel should not stop at Christmas and Easter, but it should only start there.

Our family has always celebrated Pesach. The entire seder revolves around telling the story of G-d leading His people out of the bondage of slavery in Egypt. Children are an integral part of this celebration. If you’ve ever been to a seder, you’ll know the excitement of the search for the afikomen and the reward/ransom that is paid. This holiday is a great time for the extended family to gather together (much like Thanksgiving or Christmas). There is plenty of fun to be had.

Well, that’s great. I hope that tradition can survive for thousands of more years.

Yet the reason we celebrate it is because G-d said to do so, not just because it is “fun”. The Gospels record numerous times when Messiah Himself celebrated it. How can we go wrong following His example?

I do not mean to imply that how anyone else celebrates the Holy Days is “wrong” or “bad”. Certainly celebrating Messiah’s death & resurrection can be done on any/every day and in many different ways. My take on the OP is that perhaps we should consider why we celebrate things in the way we do and not do things merely because “we’ve always done it this way”.

shalom

I realise that you are Jewish, but Christians live under a New Convenant, and we believe that Passover is a foretelling story of the Cruicifixion.

My take on the OP is that they were anti-Catholic. :twocents:

 

[Lev23]

Lev23,

You can’t possibly be looking at a Jewish calendar. Shavuot does not always start on a Sunday.

Good question, sometimes Easter is on the wrong Sunday according to the Lunar calendar the Israelis use.

huh? I’ve never seen Easter on a Hebrew calendar. As far as which calendar Israelis use - well, they might use a Hebrew, Muslim, or Christian calendar depending on which holidays they follow.

BTW, Shavuot occurs 50 days after the beginning of the counting of the omer (hence the name Pentecost - pente = 50). This places it long after Passover. Perhaps you are confusing Shavuot (latter first fruits) with Sfirat Ha Omer (early first fruits)?

shalom

I wasn’t looking at a Hebrew calendar, but was looking at Hebrew scripture.

Lets see what God says in Lev 23:15-16
**" 'From the day after the Sabbath, the day you brought the sheaf of the wave offering, count off seven full weeks. Count off fifty days up to the day after the seventh Sabbath, and then present an offering of new grain to the LORD. **

The “day after the sabbath”, could that mean Sunday?

Count off 50 days from when? The day they brought the sheaf of the wave offering. Where was that mentioned?
That was back in Lev 23:11-
**He is to wave the sheaf before the LORD so it will be accepted on your behalf; the priest is to wave it on the day after the Sabbath. **

Did you notice the “day after the sabbath” part again?

 

[paidion]

I wasn’t looking at a Hebrew calendar, but was looking at Hebrew scripture.

Lets see what God says in Lev 23:15-16
**" 'From the day after the Sabbath, the day you brought the sheaf of the wave offering, count off seven full weeks. Count off fifty days up to the day after the seventh Sabbath, and then present an offering of new grain to the LORD. **

The “day after the sabbath”, could that mean Sunday?

Count off 50 days from when? The day they brought the sheaf of the wave offering. Where was that mentioned?
That was back in Lev 23:11-
**He is to wave the sheaf before the LORD so it will be accepted on your behalf; the priest is to wave it on the day after the Sabbath. **

Did you notice the “day after the sabbath” part again?

“Saturday” is not the only Shabbat. The first day of Passover (as well as the first days of many other Holy Days) was also a Shabbat.

So which day do you count from?

shalom

 

[paidion]

And you’re right, the Jews had no problem determining Passover. But they took too long. The early catholics were anxious to know the Easter date. I don’t know - maybe they wanted to submit vacation leave plans to their employers. Well, I’m being sarcastic. But I think you get my drift.

What took so long about looking at the night sky? It’s not like it’s rocket science to figure out when the next new moon will occur.
I can’t help but think there’s more to why the dates were switched.
…

I find it interesting in your post you mention Christmas and Easter are great opportunities for spreading the Gospel. While I believe that is basically true (after all, what time isn’t a great time to spread the Gospel?), I wonder how much of the celebrations are actually geared toward that very purpose?

For my part, I have seen more folks continue with a particular practice because they were brought up with that tradition rather than because that practice has an especially evangelical purpose. (I am speaking specifically of the baskets, bunnies, etc.)

I don’t think these things are necessarily “evil” or “wrong” in and of themselves, nor do I think that everything we do must have some stated purpose (evangelical or otherwise). I am merely observing that we often try to justify what we do in order to prove to ourselves, G-d, or others that it is a “witness” or a means of “sharing the Gospel”.

shalom

 

[Contarini]

Something else to think about…

Millions of Christians are exclaiming, “Enough!” They have had it with worship traditions inherited from Medieval Christianity with little, if any, reformation.

Actually, a lot of evangelicals are turning back to traditional forms of worship and rejecting the silly prejudices we have inherited from the Reformation.

The fact that you think the Mass is somehow “anti-King” shows just how clueless you are.

Edwin

 

[VARC]

The saddest part of your response is the fact that you had to even ask those questions.

Why don’t you read Exodus…understand the Passover and the significance of Jesus being the Passover lamb that was sacrificed and the other typologies. That’s how to celebrate it. Oh, and one other thing…undo the hundreds of years of anti-semitism and Judeo-phobia and move Resurrection day back to during Passover rather than de-Judaizing it as Constantine did who declared it illegal to celebrate Christ’s crucifiction during Passover thereby moving Christianity further into Greco-Romanism and further from her Hebraic roots.

:whacky:<----Sola Fide

 

[paidion]

I realise that you are Jewish, but Christians live under a New Convenant, and we believe that Passover is a foretelling story of the Cruicifixion.

Since Passover is a foretelling of the Crucifixion, wouldn’t it make sense to observe it (in a seder, for example) instead of the Church separating itself from it?

Manny said the book of Exodus is read during Holy Week. I think that’s great, but why stop there? (Celebrating Passover doesn’t require one to stop any of the other celebrations or go against anything the RCC teaches.) It seems very appropriate to remember G-d rescuing His ppl from the bondage of slavery - just like Messiah rescued His ppl from the bondage of sin.

shalom

 

[Charlie_Zeaiter]

Hi paidon,

I think the answers to almost all of your questions is “Yes”. But I can not change history. And I can not change the world. I just have to make do with I’ve got, which is a slightly inaccurate date for Easter, and some pagan traditions and symbols. Mix that in with the truth that Jesus died and rose from the dead for our sins, and you’ve got something I’m happy with, and I don’t think God is too disappointed with me.

 

[paidion]

Hi paidon,

I think the answers to almost all of your questions is “Yes”. But I can not change history. And I can not change the world. I just have to make do with I’ve got, which is a slightly inaccurate date for Easter, and some pagan traditions and symbols. Mix that in with the truth that Jesus died and rose from the dead for our sins, and you’ve got something I’m happy with, and I don’t think God is too disappointed with me.

no, I don’t think so either

shalom aleichem

 

[SolaFide]

Solafide, I see your point how the Sunday our Lord rose from the dead has sort of lost its Israeli idenity. Knowledge of the actual feast day Yeshua was resurrected would come in handy when we witness to our Jewish friends. That feast of Israel was the feast of firstfruits. Saint Paul in 1 Cor 15 refers to Yeshua as the “firstfruits”. Before eggs, the “Easter” name,etc., the day our Lord rose from the dead had significance to Israel and the third feast day of Firstfruits.

Absolutely! The significance of the spring feasts of Israel were fulfilled with Yeshua’s first coming. The fall feasts will be fulfilled with His second!

Come quickly Lord Yeshua!

 

[SolaFide]

You lost me, Lev 23. Are you saying Yeshua rose from the dead on Ha Bikkurim (First Fruits or Latter First Fruits)? If so, you are mistaken. Bikkurim/Shavuot occurred well after He was raised from the dead. (see Acts 2)

Messiah was resurrected during Hag Ha Matzah (Feast of Unleavened Bread). Still a significant time, just not the same as Shavuot.

shalom

Shalom Chaver!

No, but the resurrection of Yeshua fulfilled the meaning and significance of First Fruits.

Lev 23:9 The LORD said to Moses,
Lev 23:10 "Speak to the Israelites and say to them: 'When you enter the land I am going to give you and you reap its harvest, bring to the priest a sheaf of the first grain you harvest.
Lev 23:11 He is to wave the sheaf before the LORD so it will be accepted on your behalf; the priest is to wave it on the day after the Sabbath.
Lev 23:12 On the day you wave the sheaf, you must sacrifice as a burnt offering to the LORD a lamb a year old without defect,
Lev 23:13 together with its grain offering of two-tenths of an ephah [1] of fine flour mixed with oil–an offering made to the LORD by fire, a pleasing aroma–and its drink offering of a quarter of a hin [2] of wine.
Lev 23:14 You must not eat any bread, or roasted or new grain, until the very day you bring this offering to your God. This is to be a lasting ordinance for the generations to come, wherever you live.

It was offered as a promise to come. Yeshua was raised from the dead and offered as a promise to come for all believers.
1 Corinthians 12:20-23

Then Sh’vuot (Pentecost). Celebration of the giving of the law at Mt. Sinai. When the law came down, 3,000 died that day (Exodus 32:28) but when the Spirit came down on Sh’vuot that year after Yeshua’s resurrection, 3,000 were saved Acts 2:41.

Amein and Amein! Baruch atah Adonai elohenu

 

[SolaFide]

Hi paidon,

I think the answers to almost all of your questions is “Yes”. But I can not change history. And I can not change the world. I just have to make do with I’ve got, which is a slightly inaccurate date for Easter, and some pagan traditions and symbols. Mix that in with the truth that Jesus died and rose from the dead for our sins, and you’ve got something I’m happy with, and I don’t think God is too disappointed with me.

Shalom Charlie,

Actually, you don’t have to make due with what you’ve got. You can celebrate with your family in a more Biblical manner. Sing worship songs and tell the story of Passover to your children and how Yeshua fulfills those elements. Show them that God’s word is an integrated message system from start to finish and that God didn’t have one idea in the OT and then change gears and go with another idea for worship and adoration in the New.

Demonstrate to your family how gentile Christians are grafted into, and don’t replace, Israel. That we owe a great debt of gratitude to our Hebrew forefathers in the faith. Maybe if we stop accepting the pagan nonsense that is foisted down our throats by a misinformed magisterium, then true worship can be established and we might actually spur the Jews to jealousy as we were intended and not wrath and ire (Romans 11).

It starts with one person. Dare you be that one?

Here’s how YOU might join in the Passover Feast:

1. Invite your friends and/or family for a big dinner. Get some matzah (unleavened bread-available at most big grocery stores) and wine or grape juice and read the story of Exodus chapters 5-13 or provide Passover Dinner Guides (Haggadahs) for yourself and your guests. There are good Messianic Passover Haggadah (tellings) available online.

2.  If you’re looking for a less formal idea, prepare a picnic meal, spread a blanket on the floor and enjoy dinner. Rent the movie “The Prince of Egypt” and hit pause after the scene with the angel of death. Here are a few talking points to discuss during your break.

In the movie, every Hebrew family wiped blood over the doorframes of their homes and to protect themselves from a frightening event. The blood came from the Passover lamb. Jesus is also called the Passover lamb. How are these two lambs alike?

How does Jesus provide protection for you today?

Why was it so important for Pharaoh to let God’s people go?

What does the liberation of the Jewish people from slavery in Egypt symbolize for Christians today?

Why did YHVH say to Pharaoh to “Let my people go so that they may serve me?” What significance does that have in our Christian lives today?

Have fun!

 

[S_V7]

And by the millions they are leaving traditional structured Christianity. Increasingly, believers are reaching out for the God of the Bible. They are reclaiming their coinheritance with the People of the Book by restoring the Hebrew foundations of their faith. No longer satisfied with jejune ritual of Christianity past, now in the tradition of the Jewish forebears of their faith, they are hungry for more intimacy with God, more emotive expression of their love and passion for him. They want to do God’s thing God’s way. They want to worship him in words and forms which he has approved in his Word. They are discovering that this God of the Bible is a jealous God who seeks obedience more than sacrifice, who says, “If you love me, keep my commandments.”

If you want to see intamacy with God, I suggest you read the writings of the saints, like the Diary of St. Faustina, here are some excerpts:

O my most sweet Master, good Jesus, I give You my heart. You shape and mold it after Your liking. O fathomless love, I open the calyx of my heart to You alone, my Betrothed, is known the fragrance of the flower of my heart. Let the fragrance of my sacrifice be pleasing to You. O Immortal God, my ever lasting delight, already here on earth, You are my heaven. May every beat of my heart be a new hymn of praise to You, O Holy Trinity! Had I as many hearts as there are drops of water in the oceans or grains of sand in the whole world, I would offer them all to You, O my Love, O Treasure of my heart! Whomever shall I meet in my life, no matter who they may be, I want to draw them all to love You, O my Jesus, my Beauty, my Repose, my sole Master, Judge, Savior and Spouse, all in one; I know that one title will modify the other - I have entrusted everything to Your mercy.

When I entered the chapel, once again the majesty of God overwhelmed me. I felt that I was immersed in God, totally immersed in Him and penetrated by Him, being aware of how much the Heavenly Father loves us. Oh, what great happiness fills my heart from knowing God and the divine life! It is my desire to share this happiness with all people. I cannot keep this happiness locked in my own heart alone, for His flames burn me and cause my bosom and my entrails to burst asunder. I desire to go throughout the whole world and speak to souls about the great mercy of God. Priests, help me in this; use the strongest words (at your disposal) to proclaim His mercy, for every word falls short of how merciful He really is.

In the course of this retreat, the Lord has given me the light to know His will more profoundly and to abandon myself completely to the holy will of God. This light has confirmed me in profound peace, making me understand that I should fear nothing except sin. Whatever God sends me, I accept with complete submission to His holy will. Wherever He puts me, I will try faithfully to do His holy will, as well as His wishes, to the extent of my power to do so, even if the will of God were to be as hard and difficult for me as was the will of the heavenly Father for His Son, as He prayed in the Garden of Olives. I have come to see that if the will of the Heavenly Father was fulfilled in this way in His well beloved Son, it will be fulfilled in us in exactly the same way: by suffering, persecution, abuse, disgrace. It is through all this that my soul becomes like unto Jesus. And the greater the sufferings, the more I see that I am becoming like Jesus.

Soul: O my merciful Lord, there are secrets in my heart which no one knows or will ever know except You because, even if I wanted to reveal them, no one would understand me. Your minister knows some because I confess to him, but he knows only the bit of these mysteries that I am capable of revealing; the rest remains between us for eternity, O My Lord! You have covered me with the cloak of Your mercy, pardoning my sins. Not once did You refuse Your pardon; You always had pity on me, giving me a new life of grace. To prevent doubts, You have entrusted me to the loving care of Your Church, that tender mother, who in Your name assures me of the truths of faith and watches lest I wander. Especially in the tribunal of Your mercy does my soul meet an ocean of favors, although You did not give the fallen Angels time to repent or prolong their time of mercy. O my Lord, You have provided saintly priests to show me the sure way…
Jesus, there is one more secret in my life, the deepest and dearest to my heart: it is You yourself when You come to my heart under the appearance of bread. Herein lies the whole secret of my sanctity. Here my heart is so united with Yours as to be but one. There are no more secrets because all that is Yours is mine, and all that is mine is Yours. Such is the omnipotence and the miracle of Your mercy. All the tongues of men and of angels united could not find words adequate to this mystery to this mystery of Your love and mercy.
When I contemplate this mystery, my heart falls into a new ecstasy. In silence I tell You everything, Lord, because the language of love is without words, not a single stirring of my heart escapes You. O Lord, the extent of Your great condescension has awakened in my soul an even greater love for You, the sole object of my love. The life of union manifests itself in perfect purity, deep humility, gentle silence, and great zeal for the salvation of souls.

and one of my favorite quotes

O Uncreated Beauty, whoever comes to know You once cannot love anything else. I can feel the bottomless abyss of my soul, and nothing will fill it but God Himself. I feel that I am drowned in Him like a single grain of sand in a bottomless ocean.

Most taken from: our.homewithgod.com/divinemercy/