As Todd Requested...LDS Teachings God was once a Man

[SirThomasMore]

“We believe in a God who is Himself progressive, whose majesty is intelligence; whose perfection consists in eternal advancement – a Being who has attained His exalted state by a path which now His children are permitted to follow, whose glory it is their heritage to share. In spite of the opposition of the sects, in the face of direct charges of blasphemy, the Church proclaims the eternal truth: ‘As man is, God once was; as God is, man may be.’” (LDS Apostle James E. Talmage, Articles of Faith, Ch.24, p.430 - p.431, LDS Collectors Library '97 CD-ROM)

" ‘It is the first principle of the gospel to know for a certainty the character of God,’ the inspired word continues, ‘and to know that we may converse with Him as one man converses with another, and that He was once a man like us; yea, that God himself, the Father of us all, dwelt on an earth, the same as Jesus Christ Himself did.’ The Father is a glorified, perfected, resurrected, exalted man who worked out his salvation by obedience to the same laws he has given to us so that we may do the same." (LDS Apostle Bruce R. McConkie, A New Witness for the Articles of Faith, p.64, LDS Collectors Library '97 CD-ROM)

“The idea that the Lord our God is not a personage of tabernacle is entirely a mistaken notion. He was once a man. Brother Kimball quoted a saying of Joseph the Prophet, that he would not worship a God who had not a Father; and I do not know that he would if be had not a mother; the one would be as absurd as the other. If he had a Father, he was made in his likeness. And if he is our Father we are made after his image and likeness. He once possessed a body, as we now do; and our bodies are as much to us, as his body to him. Every iota of this organization is necessary to secure for us an exaltation with the Gods.”

• Prophet Brigham Young, True Character of God, Salt Lake Tabernacle, February 23, 1862, Journal of Discourses, Vol. 9, p.286

"What, is it possible that the Father of Heights, the Father of our spirits, could reduce himself and come forth like a man? Yes, he was once a man like you and I are and was once on an earth like this, passed through the ordeal you and I pass through. He had his father and his mother and he has been exalted through his faithfulness, and he is become Lord of all. He is the God pertaining to this earth. He is our Father. He begot our spirits in the spirit world. They have come forth and our earthly parents have organized tabernacles for our spirits and here we are today. That is the way we came.

• Prophet Brigham Young, 14 July 1861, Recorded in “The Essential Brigham Young”, p.138

“That exalted position was made manifest to me at a very early day. I had a direct revelation of this. It was most perfect and complete. If there ever was a thing revealed to man perfectly, clearly, so that there could be no doubt or dubiety, this was revealed to me, and it came in these words: “As man now is, God once was; as God now is, man may be.” This may appear to some minds as something very strange and remarkable, but it is in perfect harmony with the teachings of Jesus Christ and with His promises.”

• Prophet Lorenzo R. Snow, Unchangeable Love of God, Sunday, September 18, 1898.

 

[SirThomasMore]

“We all know that like begets like and that for the offspring to grow to the stature of his parent is a process infinitely repeated in nature. We can therefore understand that for a son of God to grow to the likeness of his Father in heaven is in harmony with natural law. We see this law demonstrated every few years in our own experience. Sons born to mortal fathers grow up to be like their fathers in the flesh. This is the way it will be with spirit sons of God. They will grow up to be like their Father in heaven. Joseph taught this obvious truth. As a matter of fact, he taught that through this process God himself attained perfection. From President Snow’s understanding of the teachings of the Prophet on this doctrinal point, he coined the familiar couplet: “As man is, God once was; as God is, man may become.” This teaching is peculiar to the restored gospel of Jesus Christ.”

• Elder Marion G. Romney, General Conference, October 1964

“Mormonism be it true or false, holds out to men the greatest inducements that the human mind can grasp. And so it does… It teaches men that they can become divine, that man is God in embryo, that God was once man in mortality, and that the only difference between Gods, angels and men is a difference in education and development. Is such a religion to be sneered at? It teaches that the worlds on high, the stars that glitter in the blue vault of heaven, are kingdoms of God, that they were once earths like this, that they have been redeemed and glorified by the same laws, the same principles that are applied to this planet, and by which it will ascend to a perfected and glorified state. It teaches that these worlds are peopled with human beings, God’s sons and daughters, and that every husband and father, may become an Adam, and every wife and mother an Eve, to some future planet.”

• Orson F. Whitney, Divine Evidences of Truthfulness, Y.M.M.I.A. Annual Conference, June 9th, 1895.

God our Heavenly Father is still progressing. While He knows all that is, all that has been, and possibly all things that He designs for the future and what will be in the future, yet He is constantly adding to His dominion, constantly increasing His power, constantly developing in His resources and in His glorious aspirations. This, at least, is our understanding of the condition of our Father in heaven. The thought has been expressed and accepted as a truth, that as we are now, God has been, and as God is now we may be; and if we admit this to be a truth—and I have no disposition to dispute it—then I repeat that even God our Heavenly Father has not reached the ultimatum of His greatness, His power, or His capacity, but that He is continually increasing and expanding in power, in dominion, in glory and in greatness, if I may be permitted to use such terms as these which some people who know no better would call blasphemous, in connection with the Supreme Being, the Father of us all."

• Prophet Joseph F. Smith, Sustaining Each Other in the Gospel, Sunday, February 16, 1896.

 

[SirThomasMore]

“We are His children in Very deed, having been born of Him in the spirit, and we have inherited the very attributes which he possesses. They are in us, and they make us God’s embryo, We believe that as we are now God once was, and by the practice of virtue and righteousness, by obedience unto law and authority, He has become what He is, and as He is, man may become, on the same principle.”

• Elder Goege F. Richards, General Conference, April 1913

“The doctrine of the relationship between God and men, as made plain through the word of revelation, is today as it was of old, though in the light of later scripture we are enabled to read the meaning more clearly. It is provided that we, the sons and daughters of God, may advance until we become like unto our Eternal Father and our Eternal Mother, in that we may become perfect in our spheres as they are in theirs. That grand truth, taught by the Prophet Joseph and ridiculed for the time, has now gripped the minds of the thinkers and philosophers of the age… It was crystallized into what we may call an aphorism, by President Lorenzo Snow: ‘As man is God once was; as God is man may be’.”

• Elder James E. Talmage, General Conference, April 1915

“It is a Mormon truism that is current among us and we all accept it, that as man is God once was and as God is man may become. That does not signify that man will become God. I am sorry to say, and yet it is a truth, that not many men will become what God is, simply because they will not pay the price, because they are not willing to live up to the requirements; and still all men may, if they will, become what God is, but only those who are heirs of the celestial glory shall ever be possible candidates, to become what God is.”

• Elder Melvin J. Ballard, General Conference, April 1921

 

[PaulDupre]

Here we see, again, that the LDS see God as essentially the same as us, only more advanced. This is disgusting and offensive to Christians.

 

[SirThomasMore]

Here we see, again, that the LDS see God as essentially the same as us, only more advanced. This is disgusting and offensive to Christians.

yep. God was once a sinful man. How more heretical can you get?

 

[Todd520]

Since you are evading, I must call you on it

You said “where God was once a sinful man…”

I challenged you to find official doctrine where we LDS teaches God was once a **sinful **man

I’m still waiting

 

[SirThomasMore]

Since you are evading, I must call you on it

You said “where God was once a sinful man…”

I challenged you to find official doctrine where we LDS teaches God was once a **sinful **man

I’m still waiting

are you truly asking that?

what part of

"As man is, God once was;

" that God was once man in mortality"

"and that He was once a man like us; "

“Yes, he was once a man like you and I are and was once on an earth like this, passed through the ordeal you and I pass through.”

“The thought has been expressed and accepted as a truth, that as we are now, God has been, and as God is now we may be; and if we admit this to be a truth—and I have no disposition to dispute it”

How can you deny it? If God was just like us, then he was just like us. Or do you bleieve that we have no sin?

Please…this is not rocket science. Stop denying just because you know the doctrine is heretical

 

[PaulDupre]

Todd is an infant, with a very superficial knowledge of Mormonism. He reminds me of myself in 1975. Arguing wth Todd is like arguing with a 5 year-old. Don’t bother. In a few years, he will be an older and wiser Todd, back in the Catholic Church and posting his anti-Mormon posts here.

 

[SirThomasMore]

well, he was answering pretty quickly until faced with undeniable truth.

He has either given up, or he is out seeking help from someone on how to deflect this sad truth

 

[RebeccaJ]

I notice that no LDS other than Todd are denying or clarifying. Are they watching him flail around or what?

 

[Todd520]

The LDS Church believes Jesus was perfect and free of sin during his time on earth.
The LDS Church does not teach that any member of the Godhead (Father, the Son, and the Holy Ghost) has ever sinned.

JS said

“I say, if you were to see him today, you would see him like a man in form—like yourselves in all the person, image, and very form as a man; for Adam was created in the very fashion, image and likeness of God, and received instruction from, and walked, talked and conversed with him, as one man talks and communes with another…God himself, the Father of us all, dwelt on an earth, the same as Jesus Christ himself did; and I will show it from the Bible.”

No sane person sees JS argue that our heavenly Father ever sinned in this statement. Also, since Jesus never sinned, why would anyone conclude that the Father sinned? Where is the clear statement stating the LDS believed either of them sinned?

Same old, same old - STM must rely on misrepresentation to fabricate a “sinning God”

 

[RebeccaJ]

Todd, do you believe you can become a god, in all ways as the god you worship? Creator, omni-everything, etc?

 

[kikkichan]

Since you are evading, I must call you on it

You said “where God was once a sinful man…”

I challenged you to find official doctrine where we LDS teaches God was once a **sinful **man

I’m still waiting

Now, this may not be “official” doctrine, but I think the words “As God now is, man may become!” comes close. Unless, this refers only to sinless men becoming “as God is now” I’d say this statement at least suggests that a sinful man could become “as God is now”.

Is the belief of possibly becoming “As God now is now” widely accepted? Is being sinless is a prerequisite?

–kc

 

[zaffiroborant]

The LDS Church believes Jesus was perfect and free of sin during his time on earth.
The LDS Church does not teach that any member of the Godhead (Father, the Son, and the Holy Ghost) has ever sinned.

JS said

No sane person sees JS argue that our heavenly Father ever sinned in this statement. Also, since Jesus never sinned, why would anyone conclude that the Father sinned? Where is the clear statement stating the LDS believed either of them sinned?

Same old, same old - STM must rely on misrepresentation to fabricate a “sinning God”

Could you point out where it is clearly defined that “as man is now is” does not not include sinfulness? Where have your prophets definitively stated that God the father was once a sinless man.

Hey Todd isn’t it great when others interpret your churches writings and tell you what you believe?

 

[Gabriel_of_12]

QUOTE=Todd520;7001308]The LDS Church believes Jesus was perfect and free of sin during his time on earth.
The LDS Church does not teach that any member of the Godhead (Father, the Son, and the Holy Ghost) has ever sinned.

Todd? are you aware that the Mormon Church teaches that god took on flesh and had sexual intercourse with Jesus mother? to beget Jesus? If Mormonism can believe this, then the god of Mormonism can sin…

Peace be with you

 

[zerinus]

Since you are evading, I must call you on it

You said “where God was once a sinful man…”

I challenged you to find official doctrine where we LDS teaches God was once a **sinful **man

I’m still waiting

The Idea that God was once a man like us, and progressed to become God was taught for the first time by Joseph Smith in the well known King Follett discourse, as a result of which it gained currency in the early days of the Church, and all the quotes that are given are merely a restatement of what Joseph Smith had said in that discourse. However, the doctrine is never taught in LDS scripture, and in a couple of interviews that Gordon B. Hinckley (former President) gave to the public press he essentially repudiated that doctrine. The truth is that this doctrine is not official Church teaching, regardless of how many people may have taught it in the past, and the fact that it is still printed in some of the teaching manuals of the Church. If If no less a figure than Gordon B. Hinckley could have doubts about it, then so can I and you.

 

[SirThomasMore]

The LDS Church believes Jesus was perfect and free of sin during his time on earth.
The LDS Church does not teach that any member of the Godhead (Father, the Son, and the Holy Ghost) has ever sinned.

JS said

No sane person sees JS argue that our heavenly Father ever sinned in this statement. Also, since Jesus never sinned, why would anyone conclude that the Father sinned? Where is the clear statement stating the LDS believed either of them sinned?

Same old, same old - STM must rely on misrepresentation to fabricate a “sinning God”

wrong. YOUR prophets have said your god was “JUST LIKE US.” They did not say your god was “JUST LIKE US, except for that sinnning thing.”

Keep trying

 

[SirThomasMore]

The Idea that God was once a man like us, and progressed to become God was taught for the first time by Joseph Smith in the well known King Follett discourse, as a result of which it gained currency in the early days of the Church, and all the quotes that are given are merely a restatement of what Joseph Smith had said in that discourse. However, the doctrine is never taught in LDS scripture, and in a couple of interviews that Gordon B. Hinckley (former President) gave to the public press he essentially repudiated that doctrine. The truth is that this doctrine is not official Church teaching, regardless of how many people may have taught it in the past, and the fact that it is still printed in some of the teaching manuals of the Church. If If no less a figure than Gordon B. Hinckley could have doubts about it, then so can I and you.

All Hinkley tried was distance hmself even more from a horrible doctrine. It has been shown that Hinkley was less than honest on Larry King.

But then, he was less than honest during the Mark Hoffman investigation.

 

[SirThomasMore]

bump

 

[Timothy17]

"**We believe in a God who is ** …] progressive, whose majesty is intelligence; whose perfection consists in eternal advancement

Progressive, intelligent, advancement : these are the beliefs of the Promethean atheists and secular humanists perfectly. Lucifer himself is said to be “supremely intelligent,” not as being more clever or equal to the intellect of God, but by a human comparison ; hence, we cannot “outwit” the devil, and hence we cannot “play his game” and expect to win.

– a Being who has attained His exalted state by a path which now His children are permitted to follow,

That is, disobedience and defiance of the True God, even unto eternal damnation.

whose glory it is their heritage to share.

The “glory” of Lucifer is that he set-up a false kingdom in opposition to God. God’s glory is the Cross : Christ Crucified. “He reigned from the wood.” Mormons are forbidden to wear or display, and are offended by, His Cross ; that is, God’s Throne.

In spite of the opposition of the sects, in the face of direct charges of blasphemy,

“In spite of …] blasphemy,” they thence proceed to boldly declare the lie,

‘As man is, God once was; as God is, man may be.’"

… I am going to take a wild guess and say all of this Mormonic “revelation” came from “an angel of light.” Now, if this god of theirs is Lucifer, then the declaration becomes quite true : as man is fallen, so is Satan, as Satan is destined to eternal hellfire, so can man be.

Pax,
Tim