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TomH1
Guest
Me too and as well with the Epiphany. I wish they’d out Corpus Christi back to its proper day as well. I’d also like us to have Mary Mother of God and the Immaculate Conception as holy days of obligation.
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Joe_5859
Guest
The U.S. bishops decided (about 20 years ago or) that this should be settled on a province-by-province basis (a province consists of an archdiocese and its suffragan dioceses).
Why they went this route instead of just voting on it as an entire body of U.S. bishops, I don’t honestly know.
I am one of those who wishes we could celebrate the Holy Days of Obligation on their usual day.
But I do have to point out that in the United States there have not been more more than six days observed as days of obligation since the early 1800s. As a result, Catholics who only attend Mass on Sundays and Holy Days of Obligation are probably much more aware of the Epiphany and Corpus Christi than they ever were when those days were celebrated on the standard days.
We can all hope and pray that observing these days on Sundays will inspire rank and file Catholics to ask for them to some time in the future be celebrated on their proper days.
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Prodigal1984
Guest
Where did you get the information that it was only that many since in the United States since the early 1800s? I’m not trying to be rude I genuinely never heard that before.
With the Motu Proprio, Supremi Disciplinae of 2 July 1911, Pope Saint Pius X reduced the number of such non-Sunday holy days from 36 to 8: the above 10 dates (1 January was then the [Feast of the Circumcision of minus the feasts the Body and Blood of Christ, and Saint Joseph.The present list was established in canon 1247 of the 1917 Code of Canon Law.
With the Motu Proprio, Supremi Disciplinae of 2 July 1911, Pope Saint Pius X reduced the number of such non-Sunday holy days from 36 to 8: the above 10 dates (1 January was then the [Feast of the Circumcision of minus the feasts the Body and Blood of Christ, and Saint Joseph.The present list was established in canon 1247 of the 1917 Code of Canon Law.
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I was wrong. It was actually the late 1800s.
The number of Holy Days of Obligation to be observed in the United States was originally determined by the Third Plenary Council of Baltimore, which was held in 1884.
Title iii, Of Divine Worship, lists the same six days that are currently observed.
http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/02235a.htm
The number of Holy Days of Obligation to be observed in the United States was originally determined by the Third Plenary Council of Baltimore, which was held in 1884.
Title iii, Of Divine Worship, lists the same six days that are currently observed.
http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/02235a.htm
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TheMortenBay
Guest
I thought there had always been dispensations in individual dioceses, whether the official number is 36 or 10, I don’t think many places have ever celebrated them all as Holy Days of Obligation.
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TomH1
Guest
There was according to the Catholic Encyclopedia. St Pius X’s Supremi Disciplinae said that of the 8 he decreed that if they were already not days of precept in a given country they would remain free of the precept. So, although his list contained Epiphany and Ss Peter and Paul they were not days of precept in the USA and that remained the case. So the USA had only 6 days of precept rather than eight.
The Catholic Encyclopedia does not list the holy days of obligation from which the precept was removed. Does anyone know which holy days they were?
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Titivillus
Guest
According to a tweeter I saw, the Diocese of Lugano in Switzerland is the other diocese which observes them all.
I even saw tweetery advising to be careful where you attend in the neighborhood of the Holy See, since the Diocese of Rome translated the Ascension to Sunday. It’s easy to miss the Solemnity entirely (as my bride once did due to travel in the US) or to inadvertently double up.
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acanonlawyer
Guest
Really? That’s pretty wild. I heard they put Corpus Christi to Sunday…at least I think I heard that…
Dan
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Titivillus
Guest
It appears the tweetism was a direct quote from wikipaedia, but I cannot vouch for its veracity beyond that
en.wikipedia.org
Holy day of obligation - Wikipedia
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Prodigal1984
Guest
I think all of the days listed as obligatory by the Holy See should be mandatory for the entire Church. It is only ten days.
This suppression or moving to a closest Sunday diminishes its importance I think. Epiphany should be January 6, Corpus Christi should be the Thursday after Trinity Sunday; and Ascension Thursday should definitely be on Thursday.
Churches offer multiple masses the night before and the morning, during the day, and the night of the feast. If someone can’t find a way to make it to mass they have a problem.
This leads to confusion. If I am from a country where a day is obligatory and am travelling to one where it isn’t, am I still obliged to go or does that mean I am pardoned from going? See what I mean? That’s almost like relativism right there.
This suppression or moving to a closest Sunday diminishes its importance I think. Epiphany should be January 6, Corpus Christi should be the Thursday after Trinity Sunday; and Ascension Thursday should definitely be on Thursday.
Churches offer multiple masses the night before and the morning, during the day, and the night of the feast. If someone can’t find a way to make it to mass they have a problem.
This leads to confusion. If I am from a country where a day is obligatory and am travelling to one where it isn’t, am I still obliged to go or does that mean I am pardoned from going? See what I mean? That’s almost like relativism right there.
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Someone will post the actual rule…
When traveling, one is never bound by an obligation that he doesn’t have at home. He also is not bound by an obligation that he has at home if it does not bind those in the location in which he is traveling.
Unfortunately that doesn’t necessarily make things less confusing.
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maryjk
Guest
When I used to travel to PA to visit my parents, I never had to attend for Ascension Thursday.
I live in a area where it is moved to Sunday, but visiting a place where it is not moved.
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Prodigal1984
Guest
That makes it awful!
It is a universal Church. It should be the same wherever you are . And with Ascension it is different in other parts of the U.S.
If someone has to travel to say the south and returns home to the northeast on Saturday, he or she won’t even be able to attend a mass for the Ascension seeing as it was moved to Sunday where he or she traveled and then got home where it already was celebrated. It just isn’t right.
And if I visit the Vatican on March 19 am I obliged to go to mass since it is the solemnity of Saint Joseph? Or do I just walk out back to Rome and be like okay now I’m not obligated? It just isn’t right in a universal Church.
It is a universal Church. It should be the same wherever you are . And with Ascension it is different in other parts of the U.S.
If someone has to travel to say the south and returns home to the northeast on Saturday, he or she won’t even be able to attend a mass for the Ascension seeing as it was moved to Sunday where he or she traveled and then got home where it already was celebrated. It just isn’t right.
And if I visit the Vatican on March 19 am I obliged to go to mass since it is the solemnity of Saint Joseph? Or do I just walk out back to Rome and be like okay now I’m not obligated? It just isn’t right in a universal Church.
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Prodigal1984
Guest
Ascension was never suppressed.
It was moved to Sunday. If you went to an area where it is on the actual day you should have went to mass. Especially if you weren’t going to be going home in time for Sunday where they would be celebrating it.
This is the confusion it makes. I could see if we were living 100 years ago but now when the world seems so much smaller it really leads to confusion. Though I guess ignorance does make it so it isn’t a mortal sin.
It was moved to Sunday. If you went to an area where it is on the actual day you should have went to mass. Especially if you weren’t going to be going home in time for Sunday where they would be celebrating it.
This is the confusion it makes. I could see if we were living 100 years ago but now when the world seems so much smaller it really leads to confusion. Though I guess ignorance does make it so it isn’t a mortal sin.
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maryjk
Guest
If you are not obligated at home, you are not obligated when you visit. So when you are visiting Rome, it doesn’t matter what their obligation is. You don’t have have to walk anywhere.
It isn’t awful.
What would have been awful is when I would visit, arriving on Wednesday. Then suddenly finding out that Thursday is a Holy Day. And now, because I am traveling, I suddenly have an obligation.
The Church knows what it is doing. And She does it really well.
It isn’t awful.
What would have been awful is when I would visit, arriving on Wednesday. Then suddenly finding out that Thursday is a Holy Day. And now, because I am traveling, I suddenly have an obligation.
The Church knows what it is doing. And She does it really well.
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Prodigal1984
Guest
It would be awful to find out you have to go to mass? The horror!
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maryjk
Guest
After traveling 14 hours the day before?
Actually, yes. Having to do anything was bad. It didn’t matter what it was.
Actually, yes. Having to do anything was bad. It didn’t matter what it was.
I don’t think anyone thinks it’s horrible to have to go to Mass. But when traveling, it’s not always the case that your time is your own.
I would like to know where these places with such a plethora of Mass times are located. I was traveling recently and was on my phone for hours (I wasn’t driving) trying to find a Mass I could attend on a SUNDAY. What with traffic delays and such, I never found one.
Tis_Bearself
Patron
Especially in Rome where there’s a church every 2 feet.
And most of us when we travel 14 hours to get someplace don’t have the luxury of spending the entire next day in bed, we’re expected to be at a meeting or something anyway. Or if it’s vacation we will want to be up and seeing things, not sleeping like we could do at home.
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