Asexuality and Marriage

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I think one of the other items is if an asexual male and female were to marry, would it be a simulation of marriage? In otherwords something else masking itself as a marriage. In regard to canon 1101§2, if one “by a positive act of will exclude marriage itself or any essential element of marriage or any essential property, … contracts invalidly.”

So if two asexuals were to contract marriage with the intent to exclude children via their aversion to sexual contact, would that be a form of partial simulation and make the marriage invalid according to canon 1101§2?

One of the elements of a Josephite marriage is that it is supposed to be a sacrifice for a greater spiritual good of both parties. If both parties were asexual I don’t really see where the sacrificial nature comes from. A Josephite marriage also requires mutual consent. To be honest, I’m not sure how much this would really be consent, versus the relationships natural state. When I had a male roommate we did not consent to rule out sexual contact, but it was the natural course since we were heterosexual males. Simply entering a Josephite marriage because one or both don’t desire sexual contact would seem to be a way to try to legitimize an otherwise defective marriage.

Long and short? It might be possible, but I would think prenuptial investigations would have to go in more depth. In particular to ensure that a marriage would be for spiritual benefit to both and not simply a way to simulate marriage between two platonic friends.
 
This seems to me a legalistic question so probably one for a priest. My understanding is that a marriage is not valid until there has been consummation, but that it need only happen the once.

The OP is a woman rather than a man I believe, so presumably she could have sex the once if that’s the price (in her mind) of being married. The bigger challenge may be finding a man who would be happy with that, and also with the near certainty that you would both be childless.
 
Marcus1978 said:
This seems to me a legalistic question so probably one for a priest. My understanding is that a marriage is not valid until there has been consummation, but that it need only happen the once.

The OP is a woman rather than a man I believe, so presumably she could have sex the once if that’s the price (in her mind) of being married. The bigger challenge may be finding a man who would be happy with that, and also with the near certainty that you would both be childless.
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If someone were truly asexual, given that sex is the route to children, presumably children wouldn’t be that major of an issue.

ICXC NIKA
 
GEddie said:
If someone were truly asexual, given that sex is the route to children, presumably children wouldn’t be that major of an issue.

ICXC NIKA
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I think here the woman is asexual, so would presumably be OK with no children. The man would have to be sexual, in order to consummate the marriage, yet willing to abstain thereafter and to have no children. A tough ask!
 
Marcus1978 said:
I think here the woman is asexual, so would presumably be OK with no children. The man would have to be sexual, in order to consummate the marriage, yet willing to abstain thereafter and to have no children. A tough ask!
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Indeed it is, although children per se are often more desired by the woman.
 
MysticMissMisty said:
Salvete, omnes!

(First of all, my apologies for posting this to the wrong forum if I have. Please feel free to move!)

As some of you may already know, I have identify for some time as asexual (once I discovered that such a term even existed and that I pretty much fit it).

I have had absolutely no sexual desire for as long as I call recall, genuinely and truly. My mind simply does not connect sexual intimacy with other forms of mental/spiritual closeness and I simply have no desire to engage in the physical act. In fact, I have no desire to have desire, so it’s not something I feel I want to correct. Really, the furthest I could ever see myself going in terms of the physical is “cuddling” (so as to promot spiritual/mental closeness) but nothing remotely that would suggest a lead-up to the act itself. In fact, I believe I quite enjoy that kind of closeness. It is intimate enough for me, to be honest. (Let us perhaps leave questions of the “naturalness” or “disorderedness” of such conditions for another thread, if that’s possible, and let us stick to the topic at hand.)

However, I do believe that I am a (heterosexual) “romantic asexual”. I have very (classically) romantic tendencies (some would even call them “hopeless romantic” tendencies) and I would love to find that “right person” with whom to spend my life.

I therefore am wondering if it is possible for an asexual to get married within the Catholic Church. To another asexual? Even to a sexual person, ifthey are truly and genuinely willing to commit to abstention for the asexual’s sake? Or, if they marry, would it be up to the asexual, even if they do not particularly “like” sex, to satisfy the other partner, whether they be sexual or asexual, both on account of children and for other reasons such as emotional support and the promotion of fidelity?

I have heard before that something like “Josephite” (“sexless”?) marriages can be conducted, though, aren’t thsoe simply for the purpose of increasing one’s spiritual strength by refraining from sex? …though I suppose, in my case, especially if asexuality is a kind of natural “calling” to me, I should be using it to further God’s kingdom regardless. But, again, what of the other partner, especially if he is a sexual (non-asexual) person?

I am also wondering if an asexual person should eve consider getting married, since he/she may, in fct, be called to the single life, given his/her “natural”(?) condition?

And, then, as a bit of an aside of the “children” issue. I also am not, to be very frank, a big fan of children, not because I think they’re objectively bad or anything. I just don’t think I’ve the temperament. I tend to be very reserved/introverted and I don’t take to energy/running around/etc. that well. This is not to say that this couldn’t change. I am justr wondering also if this aspect added to my asexuality is not calling me away from marriage. (In fact, I wasn’t quite sure whether to post this in this forum or in the Vocations one for this reason!)

So, where does all this leave me?

Is there any official teaching on this? What do folks think?

Gratias.
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Self-diagnosis is unwise. Things may be just as you say, or they may not. A medical check is warranted. Fear not. If medical tests reveal a correctable condition, you will be as happy with yourself after the treatment as you are with yourself now.
 
Anglewannabe said:
No sane sexual person would agree to marry an asexual person and agree to no sex ever. I seriously doubt that would happen.

Personally, I have to wonder what your gender and age are. Women don’t hit their sexual peak until their 30s. Never in my younger days did I understand sexual temptation. It is not until I was mid 30s that I realized you it can be a struggle at times to remain pure. Perhaps when you are older you will see it differently

Angie
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Read her profile.
I’m pretty sure she qualifies as a grownup. :rolleyes:
 
I can kind of relate to this. I was younger I guess you could say I identified as “asexual” although I never had a word for it. I was never that into romance and the idea of sex grossed me out and I never wanted to do it. So when I found out in order to consummate a marriage you had to have sex, I thought I’d never marry. Over the years however I really began to research marriage and sexuality from a Catholic perspective and really began to develop an appreciation of it. I think that much of my disgust of sex was really due to my misunderstanding of sex and marriage. Now that I am older I like the idea of sex but, only within the union marriage.

I don’t know if this is the case for you but, I’d really recommend researching the sacrament of marriage and its purpose with in the whole of the Catholic faith.
 
To the OP,
I am in a sexless marriage and IT IS CRUEL! Part of marriage is sex. If you every do get married make 10000% sure your spouse does not want sex. If your spouse does want sex do not withhold it. It’s a cruel existence for the married partner that is being withheld this beautiful act.
 
MainBrain said:
To the OP,
I am in a sexless marriage and IT IS CRUEL! Part of marriage is sex. If you every do get married make 10000% sure your spouse does not want sex. If your spouse does want sex do not withhold it. It’s a cruel existence for the married partner that is being withheld this beautiful act.
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Did your marriage take on this character from the beginning or after some lengthy time?
 
If you were to marry (I can’t answer your question about validity in Catholicism), I think it would need to be to another asexual. It would be very difficult for a sexual person to abstain from sex for the rest of their life. Even if they started off saying they were OK with it, I’m not sure I would trust that they truly could do it with no resentment, difficulty etc.

I’m not asexual but I’m not overly sexual either and even I would struggle to be in a relationship with an asexual who is unwilling to compromise. As I say, I am not asexual but as part of a marriage, I make compromises because of my love for my husband. I take enjoyment from the closeness but it sounds like you may struggle with even this?

Please don’t think people are saying there is anything wrong with you by suggesting medical tests. The lack of a desire is something which can be explained through a medical issue etc (not just an identity) and so there is nothing wrong with at least finding out for definite if there is indeed an issue such as hormonal etc. You wouldn’t have to accept treatment if you didn’t want to.

Have you considered that you may be called to be a nun?
 
I wouldn’t have termed myself ‘asexual’, exactly, but… I didn’t have a ‘sexual awakening’ until very recently, when it became real in the thought of a specific person, whom I found could make the idea of THAT ACT less terrifying and very desirable…

I have been menstruating since 13, but never once did I desire sex until I was 23. It wasn’t something I needed to think about, since I’d never dated and didn’t know anyone who could make that seem pleasant.

But then, when I could frame it in terms of a person, a real, living person for whom I’d have deep affection, it all started to make sense, that in marriage it is a beautiful thing.

And then of course I realized that I can’t truly be attached to something I’ve never experienced. My virginity makes virtue easier - the same way that not eating a certain food is easier if you’ve never tasted it. So my dim desires would doubtlessly awaken at the act itself.

I don’t believe I’m the sort of person who could be that intimate with someone and recover from the heartbreak of losing them. Even if I wasn’t born Catholic and knew extramarital sex was wrong my entire life, I don’t believe I’d ever have risked it outside of an eternal promise.

So. I am not disputing that the OP is asexual. I’m not saying it needs changed. I’m just throwing out the possibility that she isn’t easily attracted to most men, and that it may take someone very special to change everything.

If she never ever desires sex, I say, wow. So easy to be chastely single. I do kinda get it, I had ten years of it. Yes, maybe religious life, or consecrated virginity is the very thing.

I just really don’t think marriage is the thing, not unless or until that one person changes everything. If everyone knows one person is asexual, that could make being roommates with someone an easy thing. Being single doesn’t dictate being alone. An asexual could room with anyone, so long as the other didn’t personally want that person, and give no scandal. Right?
 
Thanks, guys, for all of your (name removed by moderator)ut.

First, many asexuals, myself included, grow very weary of being told “there’s something wrong with you” or “you should get it corrected”. Many of us simply “have no desire to have desire”, if that makes sense. We don’t want to be “different”. Again, the matter of our condition being “disoredered” or just “different” is, I think, on the whole, a topic for another thread at any rate.

Secondly, yes, if my partner were sexual, I would be more than willing to satisfy him, though I would have to let him know that it might not be as pleasing for him as it would be ifI were a sexual person also because I would derive no pleasure from receiving his sexual love. I would try to give what I could, but, again, with my “heart” not perhaps being in it, it might not be as “good”, if you will.

Yes, I know that enering into a marriage with a sexual person would require months if not years of careful consideration before it was entered into. Much would have to be discussed concerning how we would both handle our individual needs being met. And, I would not want someone to marry me if they could not deal with my situation.

OK, here’s the thing: There are many different types of asexuality. I believe that I fall into what is called a “heteroromantic asexual”. In other words, I have no sexual desire but I do get other romantic feelings for the opposite sex. This puts me in a very difficult position, obviously. I long for a romantic attachment but I cannot easily give or receive sexual pleasure as a part of it. As I think I said earlier, I long for a romantic partner with whom to spend the rest of my life, just not the sexual relationship that comes with it. It is a truly, truly difficult and even terrible position to be in. Indeed, this is why I am questioning what calling I really have, whether to marry or not, as one part of me longs for the romantic connection while the other does not desire the sexual aspect. I have struggled with this so very greatly!

One person above stated that the only way my partner and I would be permitted to refrain from sex would be for some higher spiritual reason, not just because I had no desire for it. Does everyone else agree with this? I mean, as Paul mentions this, I can see this as being a legitimate reason for giving up sex, certainly temporarily, but not as the only one. I suppose one could argue that my natural lack of inclination for sex naturally frees me up to do more for God and so, the spiritual aspect is be default present for me, so that particular issue may be a moot point?
 
MysticMissMisty said:
It is a truly, truly difficult and even terrible position to be in. Indeed, this is why I am questioning what calling I really have, whether to marry or not, as one part of me longs for the romantic connection while the other does not desire the sexual aspect. I have struggled with this so very greatly!
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And yet you bristle at the idea that this situation could be “corrected”.

Sorry, but it is not an idea that can be reserved for another thread. It directly relates to your question, regarding possible marriage. You cannot ask your question and refuse to address this aspect of it.

Let’s consider for example, this comment below:
MysticMissMisty said:
I would try to give what I could, but, again, with my “heart” not perhaps being in it, it might not be as “good”, if you will.
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Surely giving it all you could in this situation would include exploring whether there was something medical and/or psychological to be addressed? For the sake of your marriage, your husband, and possible children, a healthy sex-life is something that should be sought and fostered.

You should also consider that regardless of you intentions to fulfil your conjugal duties, your being asexual might make it very difficult to do so. This could be argued to be a “personal quality that can objectively and gravely perturb conjugal life”. As per canon 1098, deliberate deciet regarding this might be grounds for nullity. You say you would be upfront with a potential husband, but how does that conversation go? How do you tell someone you love dearly that your physical expression of that love will be meaningless to you (and potentially even repulsive)? And then the next step - how do you tell someone you love dearly that your physical expression of that love will be meaningless to you, and you are not prepared to do anything about it?
 
I would think that if you are not called to the marital act than you are not called to marriage? Have you given any thought to living communally? Religious orders? Consecrated virgin? Those would be great for a person who feels no sexual attractions.

Also just another thought. If you never engaged in sexual relations you may just have no desire to because you’ve never experienced it. It is very difficult for many single people to live chastely after living differently previously. Or even the inverse, were you turned off to such relations after a bad experience? I know that these are personal questions but maybe these are things you need to ask yourself. Sex absent of love can sometimes be a terrible thing.
 
underacloud said:
And yet you bristle at the idea that this situation could be “corrected”.

Sorry, but it is not an idea that can be reserved for another thread. It directly relates to your question, regarding possible marriage. You cannot ask your question and refuse to address this aspect of it.

Let’s consider for example, this comment below:

Surely giving it all you could in this situation would include exploring whether there was something medical and/or psychological to be addressed? For the sake of your marriage, your husband, and possible children, a healthy sex-life is something that should be sought and fostered.

You should also consider that regardless of you intentions to fulfil your conjugal duties, your being asexual might make it very difficult to do so. This could be argued to be a “personal quality that can objectively and gravely perturb conjugal life”. As per canon 1098, deliberate deciet regarding this might be grounds for nullity. You say you would be upfront with a potential husband, but how does that conversation go? How do you tell someone you love dearly that your physical expression of that love will be meaningless to you (and potentially even repulsive)? And then the next step - how do you tell someone you love dearly that your physical expression of that love will be meaningless to you, and you are not prepared to do anything about it?
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And when does one have this conversation? Before or after the other person has fallen in love?

Misty, unlike some, I don’t think you need to seek help for being asexual unless you are serious about marriage. If so, then I think you need to explore any physical or mental health issues that may be the root of it, etc. Those couples who chose to have a Josephite marriage give up sex for a greater good. A Josephite marriage between two asexuals would not be meritorious in the same way as those who make a sacrifice. If you remained celibate your celibacy would be meritorious because you made a sacrifice, giving up marriage and children which you desired.
 
For the umpteenth time, I don’t want to be “fixed”.

I believe it is a personal preference. Not to be flippant about this, but, to me, it’s sort of like some people like chocolate and others don’t. Even though not liking sex is extremely rare (underreported, I believe, but somewhere between 1%-5% of the population), it may still be a matter of preference. I just don’t like sex.

As for having never experienced it, asexual people get this comeback a lot, too. My response is that I never even experience the desire that could lead to initiating it in the first place. Sexual people experience sexual desire that may lead to a sexual act. Even that desire is absent from me. There’s no desire to start the act, no desire to start out with. In my over 30 years, this has never been the case.

There is also the matter as to whether this is even some kind of “gift”, even a gift related to a vocation! I wouldn’t want to deny either myself or God that if this is the case by getting “fixed”. Maybe it’s even a gift so as to allow me to devote more time, even in married life, to prayer. I don’t know.

As to the issue of disrupting conjugal relations, perhaps in this canon desire for conjugal relations is assumed for both parties? I’m cruious about others’ thoughts on this particular angle as well.
 
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