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MariaG
Guest
Since it is not a Holy Day of Obligation (unless I am mistaken?), there is no reason to decline the invite unless a person really just wanted their own church.
God bless,
Maria
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God bless,
Maria
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Wisdom
Guest
Huh? Well there is the whole thing about recevint the body and blood of our lord Christ in the catholic church and rightly refusing the grape juice and bread in the methodist church. So I would not casually go to the methodist church just recieve ashes. Also a sacramental ashes or holy water only are sacramentals becasue a priest blesses them they are simply water and ashes in a protestant church, sorry.
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Ignatius
Guest
They said that they wer from Evengelical and Non-denom background themselves. So I don’t think they’d be dissing their former denominations.
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Eden
Guest
But these Protestant churches have Ash Wednesday because they borrowed it from the Catholic liturgical calendar. Why not ask a Protestant to experience the original?
C
Contarini
Guest
Not Anglicans and Lutherans. They never stopped (at least I know Anglicans didn’t, and Lutherans were originally more liturgically conservative than Anglicans on the whole–granted Anglicans stopped actually imposing ashes until more modern times). Other Protestants, yes, they have recovered this tradition. But it’s not a borrowing–it’s a recovery of what is ours, because we too claim to be part of the Western Catholic tradition. You can deny the claim all you like, but I’m here to keep reminding you of it!
The basic difference between my approach and that of most of the Catholics here is that you seem locked into a competitive model–everything for you is about proving that you have something we don’t. So instead of rejoicing when we recover something you regard as yours, you begrudge it. You would rather that we lost all remnants of Sacred Tradition so that those among us who want to be orthodox Christians would give up and “come home.”
This is much like the attitude of a Romanian evangelical friend of mine (actually I was in love with her!) who was happy that some Chinese acquaintances of hers were atheists rather than Buddhists, because they would be easy to convert (and she applied this same attitude to Catholics and Orthodox as well, on the whole). I think this is a horrible attitude. You should rejoice in truth and goodness and beauty wherever they are found instead of regarding everything with this soul-destroying pragmatism, as if God’s whole universe exists to give you materials for proselytization.
Edwin
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MariaG
Guest
I did not say anything about taking communion in their Church. I said that since it is not a Holy Day of Obligation, they could go and participate with them.
It of course could then be followed by an invitation to the Catholic Church on Palm Sunday, or some other “normal” day.
There would be absolutely nothing wrong in doing so and it could help build bridges.
God Bless,
Maria
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LilyM
Guest
:bounce: Woohoo! :bounce: Just asked my bestest buddy (who’s a Baptist) and she said she’d love to come!!! :bounce:
She said she’s gonna take pictures (I don’t think it’s allowed in our Cathedral but we shall see). Anyhoo it’s her first time seeing a Catholic Mass so it’ll be exciting for her. Should be reasonably impressive.
She’s … umm … quite outspoken (in the nicest possible way of course) so she should have some quotable comments
She said she’s gonna take pictures (I don’t think it’s allowed in our Cathedral but we shall see). Anyhoo it’s her first time seeing a Catholic Mass so it’ll be exciting for her. Should be reasonably impressive.
She’s … umm … quite outspoken (in the nicest possible way of course) so she should have some quotable comments
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sadie2723
Guest
LilyM said::bounce: Woohoo! :bounce: Just asked my bestest buddy (who’s a Baptist) and she said she’d love to come!!! :bounce:
She said she’s gonna take pictures (I don’t think it’s allowed in our Cathedral but we shall see). Anyhoo it’s her first time seeing a Catholic Mass so it’ll be exciting for her. Should be reasonably impressive.
She’s … umm … quite outspoken (in the nicest possible way of course) so she should have some quotable comments
Good job! Let us know how it works out!
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Maranatha
Guest
At your suggestions, I invited two fallen away Catholics and one Evangelical to services toady. from the Catholics a got one scowl no and one downcast guilty no. From the Evangelical I got a polite no thank you.
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LilyM
Guest
I’ve given a report in another post, but just to let you know - she absolutely loved our impressive old sandstone Cathedral, took pictures of the outside.
We couldn’t hear the service that well - we were at the back and the sound system wasn’t so good, but she seemed to follow it ok … not impressed with the fact that the priest had us recite the Hail Mary at one point in the service
But it gave me the chance to put the Catholic position to her afterwards, no heated discussion about it though.But she did like the black mark and took a picture of it afterwards. She teaches a youth class so it was probably to show them what we Catholics get up to. So a fairly good experience all in all!
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sadie2723
Guest
That is still a good thing. Sometimes you have to surprise people with love for them to notice you. Keep doing it. Good Friday is coming. Keep praying for grace in their lives. They will come around.
Brad
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sadie2723
Guest
Good for you! Any exposure is good. Good Friday is coming up…could take her to that as well. Hint. Hint.I’ve given a report in another post, but just to let you know - she absolutely loved our impressive old sandstone Cathedral, took pictures of the outside.
We couldn’t hear the service that well - we were at the back and the sound system wasn’t so good, but she seemed to follow it ok … not impressed with the fact that the priest had us recite the Hail Mary at one point in the service
But she did like the black mark and took a picture of it afterwards. She teaches a youth class so it was probably to show them what we Catholics get up to. So a fairly good experience all in all!
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TheRaiders
Guest
You are getting it wrong. Protestants do things opposite of Catholicism without any prodding from us Catholics. It is in their nature, they are protestors. We do rejoice that God gave us one true Church so we don’t have to worry about choosing. Many of the protestant denominations are results of cultural pride (over Christian pride), or new doctrines that are surprisingly convincing and contrary to Christian historical faith. If a protestant church were too similar to Catholicism, or even to its protestant brethren then there would be few followers because they would likely say “why not just be Catholic?” Also, to accept even small parts of Catholic faith is to open up inquiry into whether Catholicism is realy as bad as people make it ot to be (atheists, agnostics, protestants, mormons, gays, racists, Hollywood, neo femenists and muslims all have a common enemy: Catholicism, so many people only hear their points of view about it). This is why there are so few similarities between the splinters off of Catholicism, not because we Catholics hoard Sacred Tradition. Within the Church there are many different rites very different from each other, but they all share the same Sacred Christian Traditions with none of them hoarding it.
C
Contarini
Guest
How does that contradict what I said? I never said you were prodding Protestants to do things differently. I said that you don’t rejoice when Protestants recover some of our Catholic heritage.
You can play games with historical labels if you want to, but that will hardly give you any profound insights.
The “nature” of Protestants is the same as that of other Christians–to believe in Jesus Christ as God Incarnate. That is the heart of our faith, not any of the matters on which we differ from Catholics.
That last clause is an unjustified generalization.
Edwin
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TheRaiders
Guest
Edwin,
I do not mean to put down any individual Protestant, but as a movement since Luther it has shown certain tendancies, and they can’t be overlooked. For instance, before the Catholic Church came out strong against contraception in America, Protestant denoms were nearly all anti-contraception. Since the Church flexed its power against it though, they jumped on the other side and thus mainstream America came to accept this evil that has infected all of western Cultures.
True Jesus is at the center of all Christian faith, but believing in Jesus brings about the question, so what? For a Catholic the “so what?” is living out a Catholic life and trusting in a God that would send His only son to redeem us all that he left us one true faith to follow.
My last comment is not unfounded because I have seen it, and you know you have to. The contraception example is just one where Protestants found themselves uncomfortable being on the same side of the Church on anything. As far as Ash Wednesday goes, for a Protestant to accept it they have to accept that some Christian rittuals and practices are acceptable even they can’t be found in the Bible. Many can not do that, because their main contention with Catholicism is that it is not a Biblical faith. You are Episcopalian, so your faith is not so different from mine, and I can see why you would draw contention with some of the things I wrote. But I live in America, where Protestants mostly make no concessions towards the Catholic being right on anything. It dates back to the early immigration waves when nativist Protestants reacted against incoming Catholics.
Patrick
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TheRaiders
Guest
I think I understand what you are saying though. We must not be on defensive mode so much and accept Protestant unity with us when it comes around.
Patrick
Patrick
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Contarini
Guest
Very true. All I’m asking you to do is not to overlook other tendencies–such as the tendency in more recent Protestantism to recover some aspects of tradition previously dropped.
I think this is a completely back-to-front analysis. The Church didn’t have to “flex its power” against contraception until the culture began to accept it. Protestants came to accept contraception as part of this broader cultural shift which led to the Catholic Church being identified uniquely with an anti-contraception stance. Why would the Catholic Church “flex its power” before the culture had begun to accept contraception?
A certain understanding of what it means to be “Biblical” has often been understood as excluding things like Ash Wednesday. This view is on the wane among Protestants. Hence the growing popularity of the Christian year and other allegedly “un-Biblical” practices.
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scylla
Guest
I brought my Baptist friend who had never been inside a Catholic Church before to Ash Wednesday.
He even went up to recieve ashes, after shrugging his shoulders and saying lets go get some ashes.
After Mass we were walking out and he looked perplexed saying now what about Mary? He expected us to worship Mary or something and was very surprised to hear it was centered on Jesus.
He was really hesistant to even have me talk about the Catholic Church in his house before because he was worried about Mary. He even once told his girlfriend not to ask me questions because Catholics believe in Mary.
So he ended up coming home with ashes on his head and hopefully with a different perspective of the faith.
So sometimes these kind of things go a long way to dispel the prejudices and misconceptions about the faith. It just takes a little to get into that mode of sharing the faith.
God Bless
Scylla
He even went up to recieve ashes, after shrugging his shoulders and saying lets go get some ashes.
After Mass we were walking out and he looked perplexed saying now what about Mary? He expected us to worship Mary or something and was very surprised to hear it was centered on Jesus.
He was really hesistant to even have me talk about the Catholic Church in his house before because he was worried about Mary. He even once told his girlfriend not to ask me questions because Catholics believe in Mary.
So he ended up coming home with ashes on his head and hopefully with a different perspective of the faith.
So sometimes these kind of things go a long way to dispel the prejudices and misconceptions about the faith. It just takes a little to get into that mode of sharing the faith.
God Bless
Scylla
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Roman_Catholic_1
Guest
Contarini
I haven’t read all of your posts so I don’t know your situation (reasons for not joining the CC), but I haven’t grasped this statement yet. Why did you choose a church because it was closer to Catholicism than others, why not just become Catholic?
I am happy to hear this.
Scylla
Haha so now Catholics can’t even believe in Mary?
C
Contarini
Guest
Well, that’s a long story, but in the context of this thread, what I meant to say was that Anglicanism has many of those beliefs and practices that others shy away from as being “too Catholic.”
The short answer to the basic question is that I remain Protestant on the basic ecclesiological question (i.e., I believe Protestant churches are constituent parts of the true Church and I do not believe that the fullness of the Church subsists in the Roman Communion in the sense that it exists there uniquely and completely).
Here’s another way of putting it:
To become Catholic would divide me from the Christians to whom I am currently united, and I believe this to be a great sin (unless one is convinced that these Christians lack something essential to being Christian);
and it would compel me to regard as unholy what I currently regard as holy, which again I think is very wrong unless one has no other choice.
Edwin
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