Ash Wednesday

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Just a note, the mark of the beast, as was mentioned, is the number 666. Not a cross from ashes put on one’s forehead.
 
theladyiscrazy said:
Just a note, the mark of the beast, as was mentioned, is the number 666. Not a cross from ashes put on one’s forehead.
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While the ash is not the mark, nor is the number 666. 666 is the number of the beast. The mark is something the beast’s followers have in their head (mind) and hand (meaning, they accepted it). 😉
 
adstrinity said:
I’m not going to stand by as you blow your top, Chatter. I didn’t find any undermining offense to the original question. Chillax.
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Stand by all you wish. I find expressing disapproval of an ancient Catholic liturgical practice and likening, directly or indirectly, it to “the mark of the beast” completely unacceptable.
 
Chatter,

To be honest, it’s people like you who kept me from considering Catholicism for a long time. Perhaps you should reconsider your approach in things. 😉

God bless.
 
TristanCross said:
Chatter,

To be honest, it’s people like you who kept me from considering Catholicism for a long time. Perhaps you should reconsider your approach in things. 😉

God bless.
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Spare me the victim mantra. YOU chose to come in HERE, a forum for traditional Catholics, and spew anti-Catholic-sounding nonsense, under the guise of posing a seemingly question. Imagine if you went into an African-American church venue and said, “I heard that blacks like to shrink heads as part of their inherited customs, and this has always kept me from visiting historically black churches. What do you think?” You would immediately be branded a racist, and rightfully so. If you went into a Jewish forum and said, “I always was interested in Judaism, as it is such an old religion, but I heard that the Jews are the ones that killed Christ. Is that right?” You would be told that anti-Semitism was not welcomed there and, again, fittingly so, Yet that is precisely what you have done here, and my original reply was meant to shake you in to recognizing that reality.

One does not come into the home of another, and proceed to ask insulting, prejudice-based questions. A sincere way of asking about the matter might be, “I am trying to learn more about Catholicism and one thing that I have never really understood is the practice of receiving ashes on Ash Wednesday. Can someone explain it to me?” If it were me, I would have looked up Ash Wednesday on the internet, preferably from a Catholic source, and then whatever concerns or doubts that I still had after reading, then I would have come in here and asked in a respectful way similar to the above example. What I would not have done is include references to old, ignorant, anti-Catholic prejudices as part of my question.

Most Catholic practices were long in place by the time of the Reformation and have ancient roots. I would always bear this in mind when asking any question, and recall that it is Protestantism that is the novelty, particularly the American-type evangelical model, which is barely more than 150 years or so old. There is usually a historical theology to Catholic and Orthodox practice that is simply amazing.
 
Okay, I think the bantering back and forth needs to stop. Name calling and degrading another is NOT a Christian mentality.

I will say, that coming from a Protestant background into the Catholic Church, I would ask questions where I was sincerely trying to understand what was being taught and why. I would also explain where I was coming from (based upon what I had been taught up until then). I must admit, I was very surprised at how different answers could be among Catholics and also the flaming wars that would start. I praise God that He put Catholics that truly understood church teaching and who could come along side of me, answer my million questions, with humility and kindness. They even could show me where to find the information as well.
 
TristanCross said:
Chatter,

To be honest, it’s people like you who kept me from considering Catholicism for a long time. Perhaps you should reconsider your approach in things. 😉

God bless.
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If someone taking offense at a statement that was designed to be offensive is going to keep you out of the Church, then perhaps you are not ready for the difficulties of the Catholic Christian lifestyle, anyway - you will need to develop a thicker skin, first.

IOW, don’t “guilt-trip” people for doing what you had deliberately intended them to do - react emotionally to an emotionally-charged statement that you made.
 
jmcrae said:
IOW, don’t “guilt-trip” people for doing what you had deliberately intended them to do - react emotionally to an emotionally-charged statement that you made.
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I never intended people to get upset at the statement, and for those who were, I apologize.

Like I said, I didn’t say, “I think this is the mark”. I told what I heard from Protestants, in hopes someone would refute it. Notice the “:eek:” smiley after it, indicating that I thought that belief is nuts!

May God bless you and humble your heart.

In Christ’s Name,
Amen.
 
TristanCross said:
I never intended people to get upset at the statement, and for those who were, I apologize.

Like I said, I didn’t say, “I think this is the mark”. I told what I heard from Protestants, in hopes someone would refute it. Notice the “:eek:” smiley after it, indicating that I thought that belief is nuts!

May God bless you and humble your heart.

In Christ’s Name,
Amen.
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Please understand that Catholics and i mean REAL catholics have been sorta trained by experience to have a thick skin… and not be brought down by protestant attacks against the faith… and we are defensive or else we would be trampled by all those who attack the true faith…

I apologies if you feel any hostility from Catholics especially on this forum… BUT YOU must be careful… DON’T EVER sound like your attacking the Church… if you want to ask sincerely about a matter like ash wednesday… it would have been better to ask like…

"Well i heard from some protestants that the ashes where the mark of the beast of course i think it ridiculous but what does it really mean… "

And May God Bless you and HUMBLE YOUR heart.
 
TristanCross said:
I never intended people to get upset at the statement, and for those who were, I apologize.

Like I said, I didn’t say, “I think this is the mark”. I told what I heard from Protestants, in hopes someone would refute it. Notice the “:eek:” smiley after it, indicating that I thought that belief is nuts!

May God bless you and humble your heart.

In Christ’s Name,
Amen.
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No worries, mate.

I hope you got the question answered.

I was not offended at you calling it the Mark of the Beast. I thought it ridculous because it didn’t fit (from what I have learned), but, if you don’t know any better because this is what you were taught, I don’t think we can fault you.

When I was in Jr. high, we were taught that apparitions of Mary were the devil. I was offended by this (and, I don’t remember if I was athiest or Christian at the time), but, some people really do believe it. If this is what they have been taught, and they don’t know, there is no harm in asking.

I didn’t find you to be accusing or attacking Catholics, you merely stated what you (alledgedly) heard.

Anyway, I hope you now understand. …Any more questions on the matter?
 
I was not offended at you calling it the Mark of the Beast. I thought it ridculous because it didn’t fit (from what I have learned), but, if you don’t know any better because this is what you were taught, I don’t think we can fault you.
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**
I** was not calling it the mark. I said that I’ve heard others call it that in hopes that someone would refute it. I should have made myself more clear.

As a man entering the Church, of course I wouldn’t call it such a thing! That would be ridiculous! Please, don’t throw words in my mouth. 😉
 
I thought Tristan asked a fair question in his initial posting. Some of the replies have been overly aggressive.

Keep going and become a Catholic, Tristan, and then get into traditional Catholicism. You’ll get a lot out of it.

No one knows what the Mark Of The Beast will truly be. Otherwise, we’d make darn sure we didn’t get it! The Ash Wednesday mark isn’t it, as people have been heaping ashes on their heads as a sign of penitence since the year dot.

If we all end up having a single ID number, like a credit card or social security number, without which we can’t do business, and this in turn has to be carried on our flesh like a bar code or some such, that would be a better candidate (gulp).
 
I’ve also heard an that cell phones are the mark of the beat. They are in everybody’s right hand…and an ear is close to the forehead. We can’t really buy and sell in the marketplace without them. It does have a bit of sense to it…not GOOD sense, but, if you want to see the devil hidden in the shaddows, one could make a case for it…again, not a GOOD solid case…
 
Layman said:
I thought Tristan asked a fair question in his initial posting. Some of the replies have been overly aggressive.

Keep going and become a Catholic, Tristan, and then get into traditional Catholicism. You’ll get a lot out of it.

No one knows what the Mark Of The Beast will truly be. Otherwise, we’d make darn sure we didn’t get it! The Ash Wednesday mark isn’t it, as people have been heaping ashes on their heads as a sign of penitence since the year dot.

If we all end up having a single ID number, like a credit card or social security number, without which we can’t do business, and this in turn has to be carried on our flesh like a bar code or some such, that would be a better candidate (gulp).
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My “International Student Bible for Catholics” supports Preterism. Is this the official teaching of the Church? Is it true?
 
I don’t know, but it’s something I’ve thought also. Some problems with the “End Times” notion are:
  • That the event prophesised have already happened in the past (Preterism);
  • That the end times are always a few years in the future. That time arrives and we’re all still here; cue a lot of back-pedalling by the disgraced ‘prophet’, and disappointed followers;
  • The prophecies could refer to spiritual as well as worldly events or symbols;
  • The “End Times” will certainly come for all of us, and sooner than we think, alas; we will all die in the flesh one day.
I’m more worried about the last one on that list.
 
TristanCross said:
My “International Student Bible for Catholics” supports Preterism. Is this the official teaching of the Church? Is it true?
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It’s not an official teaching, but it is one idea that we are allowed to consider. 🙂
 
Tristan, perhaps you don’t realize this, but Ash Wednesday is celebrated by many Protestants, also, although you may not have run into them. It is an ancient Christian practice and not limited to the Catholic Church.

The problem with using the term “Protestants” when you quote what someone has told you is that you don’t distinguish which particular denomination of Protestants. There is a wide variety of Protestant beliefs and they differ among the many denominations, even within a denomination. I don’t think most Protestants would consider the ashes to be the mark of the beast, or any of the other insulting remarks that are directed at Catholics. They know such stuff is nonsense, and are more intelligent than that. It is only a particular subset of Protestantism that espouses that nonsense, people who are narrow-minded and have a particular hatred of the Catholic Church, for whatever reason, mostly out of ignorance. Unfortunately, they can be very vocal and appeal to people who have little or no knowledge of Catholicism.

There are also ex-Catholics who hate the Church, and they can be the most vicious. Usually they have some gripe. They don’t like the teachings on marriage or birth control, or someone, usually a member of the clergy, has hurt them in some way, or they were never properly educated in Catholicism. You need to be careful when talking to these people, because it is likely you will not get the correct information.

It is good that you ask questions and don’t blindly accept things people may tell you. And when something tells you that what someone is telling you doesn’t sound “right”, listen to that inner voice and check it out. Go to the source. Always seek the truth. You would do that in your everyday secular life, you should do that in your spiritual life.

I don’t think you are coming here out of ill-will. I think you really want answers. Sometimes your comments may be subject to misinterpretation by some people, but after all, isn’t that the very problem you are running into? Misinterpretation of Catholic doctrine and beliefs. You are still very young, and are learning to express yourself; as you mature, you will learn how to do it more graciously and more precisely. We all have to learn this, and most of us adults still mess up in this department. None of us are perfect.

Just continue to seek the truth, and let God guide you. He will not fail you.
 
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