Asian Catholicism

[ATeutonicKnight]

To my point of view, I would say the Asian catholic church (in general) is somewhat to the higher on of liberalism.

Any suggestions why?

1 example: Music at mass would be mainly from protestant roots, and played with drums, guitars and other "rock’ instruments

This may be true, but there are some very good Asian Catholics that we should all look up to. Especially since most Asian Catholics are under threat of death just for being Catholic. Where would we be without the Cardinal in China who is on a hunger-strike until the government of China gets out of the Church?

 

[ConstantineTG]

Catholicism entered Asia for the most part over the past century - from America. Most Christian missionaries to Asia were Protestants.

The Philippines was Christianized by Spain in the 1500s
East Timor was Christianized by Portugal in the 1700s

Until today, most Christians in Asia are located in those two countries. If you will factor India in, there are parts of India that were Christianized by St. Thomas the Apostle in the First Century.

 

[Tsuwano]

My guess is that the OP has not spent much time studying the roots of the Catholic Church is Asia. Since the Mass as we know it today was developed and refined over centuries in Europe, most people consider European Masses as Conservative. The first Masses were celebrated around the eastern Mediterranean. They used flutes, lyres and small drums - which are considered liberal instruments today. No pipe-organs back then.

Catholicism entered Asia for the most part over the past century - from America. Most Christian missionaries to Asia were Protestants.

When I went to Mass in Singapore many years ago, the most liberal (to me) thing I saw was that they reverently bowed to one another at the kiss of peace. And here comes the loud American grabbing everyone’s hand.

I would suggest you need to update your own understanding of Church history in Asia. Catholicism did not enter Asia only within the last century and, in fact, Catholic missionaries were working in Asia long before Protestant missionaries arrived. I would also point out that Spanish and Portuguese missionaries were active in Asia long before the United States, Canada or Mexico even existed as States. I would not hesitate to say that Catholicism was, in fact, introduced into East Asia before it was introduced into North America.

 

[Sarabande]

By the way, as a Filipino myself, I agree with both side.

I do not agree that we are liberal in the North American sense. We still have conservative sensibilities although we are fast becoming secularized as a culture. Protestantization has infiltrated our rich Catholic traditions. But yes, we are a very spiritual and devout people. Going to church on Sunday is part of our cultural identity. And we are deeply devout. I think the Protestantization is also a reflection of this devout faith. Those who were lured into Protestant faiths remain fervent and thus have a great desire to proselytize and convert erstwhile Roman Catholics.

I agree with Constantine. As part Filipina myself and being immersed in the culture on my mother’s side of the family, I also see it both ways. I think we have to be careful about generalising the faith and spirituality of certain groups, especially since Asia consist of so many different cultures and practices. Even with the Filipinos I know (and as almost any Filipino knows, you feel like you get to know the entire Filipino community especially at parties as we seem to find each other), there are many very devout and spiritual Filipinos, yes, but there are also those who are superstitious in their faith rather than actually spiritual or just kind of lacksidasical about it. (That might be “Americanization”, though, especially with the younger generations like people my age.) And even among them, there are those who are not into the guitars at mass and are more “traditional” with their choices of music.

And Constantine’s last comment is very true. Those I know who are converts to Evangelical Protestantism are still extremely devout and desirous of converting others and will either go back to the Philippines to proselytize themselves or give money to their churches for use to make converts.

 

[Sarabande]

Because we associate such things as “Protestant”. For example, in the Philippines singing is a popular passtime. I guess behind the Japanese and Koreans, we’re next in our love for Karaoke. In fact, here in North America, its a staple for a Filipino immigrant’s home to have a Magic Sing (a microphone with a computer built in that you hook up to a TV and turn your TV into an instant Karaoke machine). We also love our guitars. We took that from the Spanish influence to our culture.

Now with our singing and guitar playing, what do traditional Catholics think? Protestantization, what else. But what can we do, our culture does fit that aspect of the Protestant faith. That is why no wonder Evangelicals and Pentecostals are making grounds in the country. Even Charistmatic Catholicism is huge there. Its just in our culture.

LOL!!! The karaoke thing is so true. You can’t go to a Filipino party without doing it. My parents even have one and got the “white” half of my family into it. And I love how you get scored. The funniest thing is that the worst singers… the ones who are completely tone deaf… usually get the best scores. It’s a joke that I, the professional singer, will often score the lowest. (I’m really bad at following the bouncing ball… I’m too used to reading music. haha!) I’m always looking forward to scoring 50 or below and then there is usually uproarious laughter. We all wait for it.

That said (and I am generalising here) Filipinos do tend to have terrific voices even if they aren’t trained. I love hearing them sing because they sing from their feet and from within their soul. completely open and uninhibited. It’s wonderful.

P.S. I can see that just by being big singers in general at mass, could be viewed as being “Protestant” by certain Catholics, especially in the US where it is largely a non-singing culture.

 

[ATeutonicKnight]

LOL!!! The karaoke thing is so true. You can’t go to a Filipino party without doing it. My parents even have one and got the “white” half of my family into it. And I love how you get scored. The funniest thing is that the worst singers… the ones who are completely tone deaf… usually get the best scores. It’s a joke that I, the professional singer, will often score the lowest. (I’m really bad at following the bouncing ball… I’m too used to reading music. haha!) I’m always looking forward to scoring 50 or below and then there is usually uproarious laughter. We all wait for it.

That said (and I am generalising here) Filipinos do tend to have terrific voices even if they aren’t trained. I love hearing them sing because they sing from their feet and from within their soul. completely open and uninhibited. It’s wonderful.

P.S. I can see that just by being big singers in general at mass, could be viewed as being “Protestant” by certain Catholics, especially in the US where it is largely a non-singing culture.

My half-Filipino friend sings and he has a great voice. It’s very powerful and he has a really good range. I can sing, but I trained my voice to have a Robert Plant (Led Zeppelin) type of voice, so I can’t sing in Mass. I’ve tried, but it’s too low for me, usually. I’d love to take singing lessons someday so I can learn how to sing low and high, though. Perhaps I’ll ask my Filipino friend.

 

[Alfonsus]

Add Indonesia to the score

One thing that struck me as strange when I read in forum like this, is how Mass was never chanted. I always thought that Mass is always chanted, at least on Sunday. That is how Mass is always celebrated in every part of Indonesia.
When I went abroad, I found that it was not the case.

Several Churches I know, just don’t have pews at all. This is not common, but not uncommon either. Why we just sit there on the floor, and love to prostrate at consecration. But perhaps traditionalist will yell at us as “doing yoga during Mass.”

 

[ConstantineTG]

Add Indonesia to the score

One thing that struck me as strange when I read in forum like this, is how Mass was never chanted. I always thought that Mass is always chanted, at least on Sunday. That is how Mass is always celebrated in every part of Indonesia.
When I went abroad, I found that it was not the case.

Several Churches I know, just don’t have pews at all. This is not common, but not uncommon either. Why we just sit there on the floor, and love to prostrate at consecration. But perhaps traditionalist will yell at us as “doing yoga during Mass.”

You sound more like Byzantine Christians than Latins

During the Spanish occupation in the Philippines, churches didn’t have pews from front to back. Only the very front has pews, and these were reserved to the elite, namely the Spanish. Native Filipino converts had to stand throughout Mass at the back.

 

[thistle]

Add Indonesia to the score

One thing that struck me as strange when I read in forum like this, is how Mass was never chanted. I always thought that Mass is always chanted, at least on Sunday. That is how Mass is always celebrated in every part of Indonesia.
When I went abroad, I found that it was not the case.

Several Churches I know, just don’t have pews at all. This is not common, but not uncommon either. Why we just sit there on the floor, and love to prostrate at consecration. But perhaps traditionalist will yell at us as “doing yoga during Mass.”

My wife and I have attended Mass in Bali and it was not chanted. However, it did last for more than 2 hours because after each part of the Mass was said in Bahasa someone then stepped forward and said it in English.

 

[PiousTemplar]

I’m so confused. So far tonight I have been told there is ‘Asian Catholicism’, as well as ‘Aboriginal Catholicism’… hmmm…

 

[Alfonsus]

My wife and I have attended Mass in Bali and it was not chanted. However, it did last for more than 2 hours because after each part of the Mass was said in Bahasa someone then stepped forward and said it in English.

This explains why it is not chanted.
I think because it is not ordinary Mass, it is not expatriate community mass either.
It was pastorally done, because there were lots of tourists.
But you will not find it usual in parish life in Bali.
You need to experience the normal one

But talking about Indonesia, it is very diverse culturally. So you will find different cultural background, between Bali, Jakarta, Central Java, Flores, etc.