Ask A Buddhist II

[Lodro]

Well speaking for Jesus, he gave up his life not for violence but so we could have eternal life with him in heaven,

People have killed Christians and will probally until the day God comes and ends it all.

People have killed people for all kinds of reason, because of religion, value-system, ethnicity, money, power, etc… From a Buddhist perspective, those are all really ultimately about ego. Because we are attached to a particular idea or thing, we fight to protect it.

But I think I fundamentally misunderstood what your were saying. I’d forgotten about how important the aspect of Martyrdom is for Christians, as exemplified by the example of Jesus. And of course, that is an example of a completely selfless action that served not to inflame war and hatred but to take all of that anger hatred on to himself and purify it. And sometimes there are situations where you feel that you must follow your faith, even if you know that that might result in a difficult outcome. That is a certainly a brave thing to do. I’m sorry that I missed your point.

We don’t really have a tradition of Martyrdom, though as I say that I’m reminded again of the examples of monks burning themselves to death. An interesting thing about that is that in some cases it exposes to people how tragically absurd their hatreds are. For the Romans it must have been extremely humbling to be faced with a man who would willingly give himself up with such fearlessness, dignity and lack of remonstration. One of the things that struck me about the monks in Tibet was the story of how the PRC soldiers were so confused by the actions of the monks that they started shooting at them. As if to say, “how dare you kill yourself, that’s our job.” Perhaps some of those soldiers will be awakened by that experience. I’m sure that there were Roman soldiers who must have become Christian followers through seeing Jesus’ action.

But it’s very tricky, because true Matryrdom must be a completely selfless (edit!) loving act. Otherwise I think you do just end up creating more blame which always leads to calls for revenge and a cycle of aggression.

 

[chataranga]

This thread has been another interesting read for me. So many questions so little time. I’ve a question regarding how the buddhists on the thread learned,studied their tradition and continue to do so. The closest buddhist center to me is about 40 minutes away. That isn’t really far if you are interested and adamant about learning what you view as the truth. Then there is some other center or temple maybe 90 minutes away. Seems extremely dedicated to searching to me. There are about a half dozen catholic churces within about 5-10 minutes of my home-not to mention the protestant denominations. If I felt a call/pull to christianity it would be nothing to go to one of these at any time without much time or effort invested. So I guess the question is what were/are your situations regarding logistics and your practice?

 

[Scriptorium]

Then Brahma is a deva or a god? Or not all Buddhists accept Brahma as a creator God, I understood from thread I that Brahma is often ignored because he(?) can’t help one achieve Nirvana (Nirbana?), but Brahma is the creator, is he(?) not?

In the oldest teachings, Brahma is classified as just another “god”, but one with inflated pride who thinks he is the one creator God. This to me shows an early interpolation as the Buddhists were combating Hindu claims against their system. At the end of the day, he is a being who is in a heavenly realm who will eventually fall from it and be reborn in another realm.

 

[notself]

This thread has been another interesting read for me. So many questions so little time. I’ve a question regarding how the buddhists on the thread learned,studied their tradition and continue to do so. The closest buddhist center to me is about 40 minutes away. That isn’t really far if you are interested and adamant about learning what you view as the truth. Then there is some other center or temple maybe 90 minutes away. Seems extremely dedicated to searching to me. There are about a half dozen catholic churces within about 5-10 minutes of my home-not to mention the protestant denominations. If I felt a call/pull to christianity it would be nothing to go to one of these at any time without much time or effort invested. So I guess the question is what were/are your situations regarding logistics and your practice?

Theravada is the only tradtion that I am aware of that does not require a teacher. Theravada contains no secret teachings and does not have what is known as transmissions which require a student-teacher relationship. The suttas for the most part are practical rather than mystical although the concepts are take much effort to begin to understand. Being a lone student is not a problem.

I live 3 hours from the nearest Buddhist center so I have always studied and practiced on my own. It’s the Internet that makes this possible. There are superb online forums with members who are ordained monks who answer questions. There is a site called Dhammatube that has loads of videos. There is Access to Insight on line which has translated most of the suttas from the Pali Canon, Almost all of my quotes are from Access to Insight. Many books on the practice and teachings of Theravada Buddhism are available for free online. The first book I read “What the Buddha Taught” by Walpola Rahula is on line for free. One can just Google the title. It is an excellent overview of Buddhism although it was published some time ago.

 

[Lodro]

Theravada is the only tradtion that I am aware of that does not require a teacher. Theravada contains no secret teachings and does not have what is known as transmissions which require a student-teacher relationship.

I didn’t know that about Theravada. I knew that there were not secret teachings, but because of the monastic connection I thought that everyone would have need for a strong relationship to a teacher. I have had a number of friends who practice in that tradition but they typically go to centres for 30-day retreats and so on, so I assumed that there was something like that. The Vipassana / Insight Meditation groups have a unique situation as well. I don’t think they place the same importance of teaching transmission either, as my understanding is that they often have a group of teachers at a particular retreat to avoid the issue of a single personality defining the thing as a whole. But that’s only vague recollection.

The issue of teachers in the West has been a challenging one. There is a balance between wanting to spread the Dharma to other cultures and at the same time you need a very high level of spiritual maturity to become a teacher – that goes triple for the Vajrayana as students rely on complete trust in the teacher at some point.

Yes, I think the greatest challenge is the lack of access to teachers and Sangha. I know it has been one for me. Many of us choose where to live based on where practice centres are. They’re often in nice places to live, so that’s not really a burden, but it does take a certain amount of dedication. Major cities will almost always have a centre or two of one kind or another and sometimes even quite small communities do. But yes, it is a challenge. Probably part of the reason that there aren’t so many of us. That, and the whole nothingness thing.

On the other hand, in my Sangha there are many many students who live somewhere on their own, and have an opportunity to connect with the teacher and other students on retreat. Retreat practice is a key part of almost all traditions. So most practitioners spend a couple of weeks or much more in group and solitary retreats. Attending teachings is also extremely important in the transmission (Mahayana / Vajrayana) traditions so a typical group retreat will involve Dharma talks, group practice, study and so on…

 

[notself]

In my opinion, Uposatha is more often practiced than retreats in Theravada although many go on retreats as well.

Uposatha is practiced on the full moon and half moons. One reaffirms the precepts and takes on the practices of a monk for a 24 hour period. One eats nothing past mid-day; one refrains from sex; one refrains from any form of entertainment and wears no cosmetics; one sleeps on a “low bed” or floor. During the 24 hours, one focuses on the dhamma and meditates.

Usually one goes to a monastery for this but those of us who are isolated usually belong to online groups who practice together with a monk or monks who are also online. The Internet has been wonderful for those of us who are in rural areas.

Here are the details. accesstoinsight.org/lib/authors/nanavara/uposatha.html

 

[chataranga]

Notself,
Thank you for the info on sites, books etc. Is there a sangha nearby for you to take refuge in or are do you generally go to retreats for that aspect of buddhism?

Lodro,
I understand that when someone learns something wonderful or that they/we feel will benefit others they/we would like to spread the word as in catholics evangelizing. I do it myself with my practice of hatha yoga. Buddhists don’t seem to have the same vision as other religions in that sense so how do you spread the word or do you let your behavior and manner cover that?(I guess this isn’t really aimed only at Lodro). Also I heard or read that the Dalai Lama said don’t study buddhism to become a buddhist study it to become the best whatever you are already. That certainly wasn’t a quote but I suppose close.

 

[notself]

Notself,
Thank you for the info on sites, books etc. Is there a sangha nearby for you to take refuge in or are do you generally go to retreats for that aspect of buddhism?

Lodro,
I understand that when someone learns something wonderful or that they/we feel will benefit others they/we would like to spread the word as in catholics evangelizing. I do it myself with my practice of hatha yoga. Buddhists don’t seem to have the same vision as other religions in that sense so how do you spread the word or do you let your behavior and manner cover that?(I guess this isn’t really aimed only at Lodro). Also I heard or read that the Dalai Lama said don’t study buddhism to become a buddhist study it to become the best whatever you are already. That certainly wasn’t a quote but I suppose close.

I took formal refuge on line with a monk from Sri Lanka. I take refuge again with every uposatha. Some people who do morning chanting take refuge every day.

I think all forms of Buddhism agree with the Dalai Lama. Of course this doesn’t mean one should not take up Buddhism if one sincerely believes it is the correct path. The Buddha said much the same thing. Some people dabble in Buddhism because it occasionally becomes fashionable. Fashion is not a good reason to take up Buddhism.

 

[chataranga]

I’m not much of a fashionista (if that is the correct term). Many things from Buddhism sound and feel true to me yet I can’t help but believe that we were/are created beings in a created world/universe. One quote that was attributed to the Buddha in a book I have titled Karma Yoga by swami Vivekananda is “Do good and be good. And this will take you to freedom and whatever truth there is.” So practicing the 8 limbs of yoga, the eightfold path, and “the little way” of St. Therese of Liseux (sp) as best as I can is how I am attempting to do and be good for now. But I am learning more each day so I can see this practice changing (transforming?) over time. Blessings.

 

[notself]

This is what the Buddha said about goodness/loving kindness. accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka/kn/khp/khp.9.amar.html

This is what should be done
By one who is skilled in goodness,
And who knows the path of peace:
Let them be able and upright,
Straightforward and gentle in speech,
Humble and not conceited,
Contented and easily satisfied,
Unburdened with duties and frugal in their ways.
Peaceful and calm and wise and skillful,
Not proud or demanding in nature.
Let them not do the slightest thing
That the wise would later reprove.
Wishing: In gladness and in safety,
May all beings be at ease.
Whatever living beings there may be;
Whether they are weak or strong, omitting none,
The great or the mighty, medium, short or small,
The seen and the unseen,
Those living near and far away,
Those born and to-be-born —
May all beings be at ease!

Let none deceive another,
Or despise any being in any state.
Let none through anger or ill-will
Wish harm upon another.
Even as a mother protects with her life
Her child, her only child,
So with a boundless heart
Should one cherish all living beings;
Radiating kindness over the entire world:
Spreading upwards to the skies,
And downwards to the depths;
Outwards and unbounded,
Freed from hatred and ill-will.
Whether standing or walking, seated or lying down
Free from drowsiness,
One should sustain this recollection.
This is said to be the sublime abiding.
By not holding to fixed views,
The pure-hearted one, having clarity of vision,
Being freed from all sense desires,
Is not born again into this world.

 

[Lodro]

Lodro,
I understand that when someone learns something wonderful or that they/we feel will benefit others they/we would like to spread the word as in catholics evangelizing. I do it myself with my practice of hatha yoga. Buddhists don’t seem to have the same vision as other religions in that sense so how do you spread the word or do you let your behavior and manner cover that?(I guess this isn’t really aimed only at Lodro). Also I heard or read that the Dalai Lama said don’t study buddhism to become a buddhist study it to become the best whatever you are already. That certainly wasn’t a quote but I suppose close.

Yes, what notself said is exactly right. We very much don’t evangelize – it’s sort of a core principal. Because the Dharma is the most precious thing, even though we are all caught up in our own desires and aggression and so on, we’d never want to stain it so I think we’re more likely to over-compensate. The dharmata is without bias of any kind. Also, I didn’t want to abuse our host’s generosity by seeming in any way to promote our particular faith. At the risk of that, I’d recommend three books for those who want to find out more about the Varayana and Zen traditions; Cutting through Spiritual Materialism; Rebel Buddha and Zen Mind, Beginners Mind. Even though they do come from a Buddhist point of view, there is much that can be applied to contemplative life in general. I hope that that is not inappropriate for this site, and will be happy to edit it out.

Yes, the Dalai Lama did say something like that. I mentioned another story in a post quite a way, when Trungpa R(name removed by moderator)oche encouraged a Russian Orthodox priest to return to his calling.

In any case, how one comes to the path is very much dictated by auspicious coincidence.
I have found the path to be richly rewarding. In my case since I was grew up in it, it is sort of like just joining the old family religion. But even there, even though I have been a practicing Buddhism for many many year, I didn’t find my heart teacher until four or five years ago and that meant losing some connection to my original community.

So there is a quality of being drawn to the path and making some effort to find what you’re looking for. I hope this doesn’t come out sounding discouraging or elitist or whatever – I don’t mean it that way at all, quite the opposite.

I think the esoteric branches of Catholicism and other faith are sort of like that as well. They deepest truths are hidden in plain sight if you know what I mean. Look at Meister Eckhart for example.

 

[Agni]

JESUS AND MARY AS PORTRAYED BY BUDDHIST ARTISTS

In a series of five videos, Father Aloysius Pieris SJ, Sri Lankan theologian and Buddhist scholar, comments on the art work he commissoned for the Tulana Research Centre for Encounter and Dialogue near Colombo. The works are commentaries by Buddhist artists on three events from the life of Christ (listening and teaching in the temple when he was a boy, conversing with a Samritan woman, and washing the feet of his disciples). Two more works depict Mary as the Seat of Wisdom and as Mother Lanka.

 

[chataranga]

Thank you again to Lodro and notself for both of your insight and shedding some light on buddhism. These two threads have been great for me. I’m always looking for ways to deepen my practice and resources to learn from whether they are christian or not. These threads have provided loads of info and insight-not only from you but from vouthan and cartini as well-what a wealth of knowledge in those two. It’ll take me months probably to get through all the quotes the four of you have layed out about the respective faiths that you represent. blessings and stay safe.

 

[notself]

This sutta covers both lay and ordained in their practice. accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka/kn/khp/khp.1-9x.piya.html#khp-1

*Mangala Sutta — Discourse on Blessings *

Thus have I heard:

On one occasion the Blessed One was living near Savatthi at Jetavana at Anathapindika’s monastery. Now when the night was far advanced, a certain deity, whose surpassing radiance illuminated the whole of Jetavana, approached the Blessed One, respectfully saluted him, and stood beside him. Standing thus, he addressed the Blessed One in verse:

1. "Many deities and men longing for happiness have pondered on (the question of) blessings. Pray tell me what the highest blessings are.
2. "Not to associate with the foolish, but to associate with the wise, and to honor those worthy of honor — this is the highest blessing.
3. "To reside in a suitable locality, to have performed meritorious actions in the past, and to set oneself in the right direction — this is the highest blessing.
4. "Vast learning, skill in handicrafts, well grounded in discipline, and pleasant speech — this is the highest blessing.
5. "To support one’s father and mother; to cherish one’s wife and children, and to be engaged in peaceful occupations — this is the highest blessing.
6. "Liberality, righteous conduct, rendering assistance to relatives, and performance of blameless deeds — this is the highest blessing.
7. "To cease and abstain from evil, to abstain from intoxicating drinks, and diligent in performing righteous acts — this is the highest blessing.
8. "Reverence, humility, contentment, gratitude, and the timely hearing of the Dhamma, the teaching of the Buddha — this is the highest blessing.
9. "Patience, obedience, meeting the Samanas (holy men), and timely discussions on the Dhamma — this is the highest blessing.
10. "Self-control, chastity, comprehension of the Noble Truths, and the realization of Nibbana — this is the highest blessing.
11. "The mind that is not touched by the vicissitudes of life,[1] the mind that is free from sorrow, stainless, and secure — this is the highest blessing.
12. “Those who have fulfilled the conditions (for such blessings) are victorious everywhere, and attain happiness everywhere — To them these are the highest blessings.”

Note
1.The vicissitudes are eight in number: gain and loss, good-repute and ill-repute, praise and blame, joy and sorrow. This stanza is a reference to the state of mind of an arahant, the Consummate One.

 

[Lodro]

This sutta covers both lay and ordained in their practice. accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka/kn/khp/khp.1-9x.piya.html#khp-1

That’s really very helpful practical advice, thanks notself!

Coincidentally or not, I was just reading last night an interview with Dzongsar Khyyentse R(name removed by moderator)oche in an old Bodhi Magazine (Volume 9 #1 & 2 [2007] pp.76). The Interviewer is Tyler Dewar, who is an accomplished translator and a senior teacher in the Nalandabodhi sangha – so he’s presumably asking the question reflecting his own work and practice.

Bodhi: In your book, you cite the sutras as a primary source for some of your teachings … You often refer to the sutras, but only a few sutras have been translated into English and the Tibetan academic tradition approaches Indian Buddhism through the shastras. [Commentaries on texts.] So it seems that in the translation of texts, we have a lot of Indian shastras but so far, there has no been so much emphasis on sutras. Do you feel that the sutras need more attention in terms of translation?

DJKR: I think so. Very much. I think maybe this is one of the weaknesses of the Tibetan tradition. This may have something to do with the Vajrayana influence, which emphasizes the guru much more than the Buddha. The word of the guru becomes quite important so the disciples take the words of their particular guru as very, very precious. But this may have become sort of a general habit. I think it is very, very, very important that we not forget the Buddha’s own words, because at the end of the day, his words are really indisputable.

So I think that’s a very nice thing to contemplate as I encounter these translations from the Pali and as I’ve so much enjoyed meeting and discussing the core of the Dharma with practitioners of the original way. Thanks to all of you.

Earlier, Dzongsar R(name removed by moderator)oche addresses some of the other issues that I think are really relevant to the dialog with our Catholic and other Christian friends:

Bodhi: …what are the positve qualities that Westerners bring to their approach to the Dharma?
DJKR: … An important one is a sceptical, or anlaytical, approach to the spiritual path… this is quite important because Buddha himself encouraged us to have that approach. This is something the culture in more traditional Buddhist countries has somehow almost discouraged…
Bodhi: …what do you see as the greatest obstacles…in Western society and in Western minds?
DKJR: I don’t know much about Western philosophy * but I think that Descartes’ approach of isolating subject and object, or the world of matter and the world of mind really has [had] an indirect and negative influence.
On the other hand, these is also quite a strong theistic background in the West. This is quite surprising, actually. Especially in the United States it’s a very conservative society. * And that always seems to be an obstacle.
You know, Westerners love** to talk about objectivity. But I think that, because of the culture and their Cartesian approach, sometimes they forget that there is no such thing as objectivity.
Bodhi: Given this duality…what Buddhist teachings stand the best chance of overcoming these obstacles?
DJKR: I think a thorough process of study is very important – a deconstructive approach… In the end, the teachings from Maitreya on buddha natue could be brought in to destroy and remaining concepts, such as concepts that cling to emptiness and so on.

Chataranga thanks for your blessings, I send them to all of you who have participated in this wonderful discussion. I especially appreciate Vouthon and Rinnie and the many Catholics and others who have asked such interesting, thoughtful questions. It has been a very meaningful, inspiring and heart-opening discussion. Turn about being fair play, perhaps it would be nice to “Ask a Catholic” now.

 

[Bakmoon]

This thread has been another interesting read for me. So many questions so little time. I’ve a question regarding how the buddhists on the thread learned,studied their tradition and continue to do so. The closest buddhist center to me is about 40 minutes away. That isn’t really far if you are interested and adamant about learning what you view as the truth. Then there is some other center or temple maybe 90 minutes away. Seems extremely dedicated to searching to me. There are about a half dozen catholic churces within about 5-10 minutes of my home-not to mention the protestant denominations. If I felt a call/pull to christianity it would be nothing to go to one of these at any time without much time or effort invested. So I guess the question is what were/are your situations regarding logistics and your practice?

Because I live in a rural area, I have never had the opportunity to even personally meet a monk, let alone visit a center. This was one of the reasons why I chose to become a Theravadin, because the materials which were available for free (Such as translations of the scriptures, various free books and talks, etc…) were sufficient for me to begin my practice, whereas many of the other forms of Buddhism weren’t feasible to do without actually being near by.

It took a lot of study, and I got a lot of help from various online communities, but I was able to get a good grasp on the fundamentals of Buddhism and get my practice going, and I am glad that I was able to do so. It was difficult, but in the end, I am happy that it was because putting so much effort into learning and practicing has given me an appreciation of the value of the teachings, and I hope in the future it will prevent me from getting complacent and backsliding in my meditation.

 

[notself]

Because I live in a rural area, I have never had the opportunity to even personally meet a monk, let alone visit a center. This was one of the reasons why I chose to become a Theravadin, because the materials which were available for free (Such as translations of the scriptures, various free books and talks, etc…) were sufficient for me to begin my practice, whereas many of the other forms of Buddhism weren’t feasible to do without actually being near by.

It took a lot of study, and I got a lot of help from various online communities, but I was able to get a good grasp on the fundamentals of Buddhism and get my practice going, and I am glad that I was able to do so. It was difficult, but in the end, I am happy that it was because putting so much effort into learning and practicing has given me an appreciation of the value of the teachings, and I hope in the future it will prevent me from getting complacent and backsliding in my meditation.

Our practice wouldn’t be possible without the Internet, the online communities and the dedicated translators of the dhamma. We are indeed lucky.

 

[Agni]

I am usually skeptical about claims for direct Asian influences on the Mediterranean world, but one of Sugirtharajah’s examples intrigues me. In the Epistle of James, the King James translation of verse 3.6 declares that “the tongue . . . defileth the whole body, and setteth on fire the course of nature.” Different translations offer widely varying versions of the words here translated “course of nature,” but the Greek phrase is trochos tes geneseos, which can be rendered “wheel of birth.” That sounds distinctly Buddhist or Hindu, especially in the context of describing the evil effects of improper speech. As Sugirtharajah says, “If there is any influence of Eastern ideas, it is here that it is visibly prominent.”

The whole Epistle of James has attracted Asian thinkers. In his classic Water Buffalo Theology, Kosuke Koyama cited James as the most promising means of introducing Christianity to Southeast Asians, especially to Buddhists, who would feel immediately at home with its style of writing as much as its teachings. This is, he notes, just what popular Buddhist scriptures look and sound like. Asian wisdom literature sounds a lot like Judeo-Christian wisdom literature, including James but also Thomas. The Dalai Lama himself is no less enthusiastic about James, praising James’s declaration that human beings are a mist, a vapor that rises and vanishes away. What a wonderful image, he says, for the transience of human life!

 

[patrick457]

I am usually skeptical about claims for direct Asian influences on the Mediterranean world, but one of Sugirtharajah’s examples intrigues me. In the Epistle of James, the King James translation of verse 3.6 declares that “the tongue . . . defileth the whole body, and setteth on fire the course of nature.” Different translations offer widely varying versions of the words here translated “course of nature,” but the Greek phrase is trochos tes geneseos, which can be rendered “wheel of birth.” That sounds distinctly Buddhist or Hindu, especially in the context of describing the evil effects of improper speech. As Sugirtharajah says, “If there is any influence of Eastern ideas, it is here that it is visibly prominent.”

From the Theological Dictionary of the New Testament (Volume 1), under the entry génesis (p. 118):

3. ho trochós tḗs genéseōs as the Wheel of Life in Jms. 3:6. This phrase is a technical one in Orphic teaching (cf. also Philo), but there the idea is that of the recurrence of birth and death. The saying in James is closer to the popular idea of the inversion of things which can even be said to bring burning pain. Judaism also speaks about the world as a wheel, although this saying, which is probably the source of the statement in James, itself seems to have been taken from popular Greek sayings about the uncertainty of fortune. The Buddhist idea of the wheel of rotation, becoming and time, which is set on fire by self-consciousness, is too speculative to explain Jms. 3:6. The author is simply adapting a popular expression to a practical end.

 

[notself]

From the Theological Dictionary of the New Testament (Volume 1), under the entry génesis (p. 118):

3. ho trochós tḗs genéseōs as the Wheel of Life in Jms. 3:6. This phrase is a technical one in Orphic teaching (cf. also Philo), but there the idea is that of the recurrence of birth and death. The saying in James is closer to the popular idea of the inversion of things which can even be said to bring burning pain. Judaism also speaks about the world as a wheel, although this saying, which is probably the source of the statement in James, itself seems to have been taken from popular Greek sayings about the uncertainty of fortune. The Buddhist idea of the wheel of rotation, becoming and time, which is set on fire by self-consciousness, is too speculative to explain Jms. 3:6. The author is simply adapting a popular expression to a practical end.

I agree. The wheel as a symbol in Buddhism has eight spokes. It represents the dhamma, the Noble Eight Fold Path, not rebirth.

Right View (or Understanding)
Right Resolve (or Intention)
Right Action
Right Speech
Right Livelihood
Right Effort
Right Mindfulness
Right Concentration