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PJM
Guest
Here my friends in an opportunity to ask that question you’ve “alway’s” wnated to ask
God Bless,
Pat
God Bless,
Pat
- Status
C
Conor7
Guest
Why can’t Catholics sing, as mused by Thomas Day in his book, Why Catholics Can’t Sing?
No just kidding, that’s not my real question.
OK, this is a toughy, so I apologize: If the Pope has full, supreme, and universal power over the whole Church and Peter was the first Pope, why does Peter refer to himself as only a fellow elder in 1 Peter?
I’ve always thought that that was a case for giving the Pope the status of First Among Equals. Or, perhaps the context of this particular verse should be taken into consideration.
Anyhow, this is not something that keeps me up at night, so don’t do a lot of research to find an answer. It’s just a bit of curiosity on my part.
No just kidding, that’s not my real question.
OK, this is a toughy, so I apologize: If the Pope has full, supreme, and universal power over the whole Church and Peter was the first Pope, why does Peter refer to himself as only a fellow elder in 1 Peter?
I’ve always thought that that was a case for giving the Pope the status of First Among Equals. Or, perhaps the context of this particular verse should be taken into consideration.
Anyhow, this is not something that keeps me up at night, so don’t do a lot of research to find an answer. It’s just a bit of curiosity on my part.
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Telstar
Guest
I’m Catholic and I used to be in the choir, so I’d have to argue with your assessment of Catholics not being able to sing!Why can’t Catholics sing, as mused by Thomas Day in his book, Why Catholics Can’t Sing?
No just kidding, that’s not my real question.
OK, this is a toughy, so I apologize: If the Pope has full, supreme, and universal power over the whole Church and Peter was the first Pope, why does Peter refer to himself as only a fellow elder in 1 Peter?
I’ve always thought that that was a case for giving the Pope the status of First Among Equals. Or, perhaps the context of this particular verse should be taken into consideration.
Anyhow, this is not something that keeps me up at night, so don’t do a lot of research to find an answer. It’s just a bit of curiosity on my part.
Peter was a very gentle and humble man. In that Epistle he was talking about humility, and how the disciples were to deal with each other and with the rest of the flock. As he traveled around with Jesus, and saw the way Jesus always humbled Himself, even though He was the true Son of God, Peter learned to humble himself more and more, in the same way. He took everything that Jesus taught him to heart and always followed His example, especially in dealing with the rest of the Apostles and the whole flock. It shows very well when Jesus wanted to wash his feet and he protested, thinking that he wasn’t worthy to have Jesus wash his feet. It wasn’t until Jesus told him that he could have no part with Jesus if he refused that he finally allowed it, then told him to wash his hands and his head, too! I think that was one of the reasons that Peter was chosen to lead the flock, because he was truly humble and a servant to all.
Mark 10:[42] But Jesus calling them, saith to them: You know that they who seem to rule over the Gentiles, lord it over them: and their princes have power over them. [43] But it is not so among you: but whosoever will be greater, shall be your minister. [44] And whosoever will be first among you, shall be the servant of all.
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mark_a
Guest
It’s called being pastoral. Some have it, some don’t.
I’ve always thought that that was a case for giving the Pope the status of First Among Equals. I’ve asked this question repeatedly of Protestants and Orthodox:
What does “first among equals” mean? How does his authority differ from the second, third, or fourth among equals?
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Conor7
Guest
You ask a interesting question and being Anglican, one would think I should know the answer since the See of Canterbury is First Among Equals. Don’t take what I’m about to say as gospel, but I take it to mean:
a. Authority doesn’t differentiate much from second, or third except in cases of tie breaking
b. The individual becomes, for lack of a better term, a mascot or figure head. One person to rally around. The front man in the band.
c. In the case of Animal Farm, all are equal. Some are just more equal than others.
Anyway, who cares what I think? This is “ask a Catholic,” not “ask an Anglican.”
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chuckfrmvalyfrg
Guest
I’m actually curious about the answer(s) in the book . Could it have anything to do with the changes in the Mass ( and the music ) post Vatican ll ? I’m old enough to remember the Mass pre-Vatican ll , and I thought we did a better job , in general , back then . No insult to today’s choirs .Why can’t Catholics sing, as mused by Thomas Day in his book, Why Catholics Can’t Sing?
No just kidding, that’s not my real question.
I still prefer the more traditional church music .
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jmcrae
Guest
I am beginning to suspect that it is because Catholic hymnals are quite badly written - or at least, the one I’m using certainly seems to be. I have been fighting for several weeks now to find a piano player who can play a few simple Christmas melodies for our Christmas pageant. Not being a musician myself, I just give them the numbers in the hymnal, but so far I can’t find a single piano player who can just play the right notes for the melody so that a few three year olds can sing along. Not. a. single. one. And these are all people who have taken piano lessons - this should not be so difficult.Why can’t Catholics sing, as mused by Thomas Day in his book, Why Catholics Can’t Sing?
No just kidding, that’s not my real question.
As an analogy, when the President of the United States (the most powerful human being on earth) says, “My fellow Americans,” does he mean to say that he is giving up all of his power to become an ordinary American citizen? Not at all. And when St. Peter said “My fellow elders,” he also didn’t mean to be giving up the position that Jesus gave him as chief shepherd of the Church (John 21:15-19) to become just an ordinary elder.
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Conor7
Guest
I think you hit the nail on the head, but I honestly don’t know much about the premise of the book. I hear the title tossed around on occasion in Anglican and classical music circles.
We Episcopalians are required to have 6 years of voice lessons in order to be confirmed.
Now no more taking me with you on tangents, or I’m going to owe the OP a big apology and a gift basket.
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LemonAndLime
Guest
If a tree falls and no one is there to hear it, does it make a sound?
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chuckfrmvalyfrg
Guest
Thanks .Fair enough . I won’t turn this into an " ask an Anglican " thread .I think you hit the nail on the head, but I honestly don’t know much about the premise of the book. I hear the title tossed around on occasion in Anglican and classical music circles.
We Episcopalians are required to have 6 years of voice lessons in order to be confirmed.
Now no more taking me with you on tangents, or I’m going to owe the OP a big apology and a gift basket.
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Equites_Christi
Guest
If a tree falls and no one is there to catch it, can it sue?
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Bezant
Guest
Thomas Day should have listened to Feirouz’s Good Friday lamentations.
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jmcrae
Guest
As long as it doesn’t do so on Church property, or during a Church-sponsored outing, we’re okay.
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Telstar
Guest
I’m from the same time period as far as pre-Vat II goes, but my parish still has a very good choir. I think a lot depends on the music director and their music choices. We have an excellent director, which might be the result of our Pastor, who has a family background in music. One of his sister’s is an opera singer in NY, and the other is a music director at another local parish. He has a beautiful voice, as well. So, he’s very careful in his choices of music, and he takes an active role in picking it out with the director. It’s usually very traditional. We’re also very blessed to have so many excellent singers and other musicians for such a small town parish. We have a professional organist and a couple of acoustic guitarists, which is also a big plus. During Christmas and Easter services, our pastor always sings a major part as a solo, or sometimes with his sister, as a duet. It’s really amazing to hear the beautiful music that comes out of such a tiny little parish choir.
(I really miss singing with them. They’re awesome!)
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fhansen
Guest
yes and no
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Trebor135
Guest
(Another tangent…)Thomas Day should have listened to Feirouz’s Good Friday lamentations.
Fairouz is actually not Catholic–she became Greek Orthodox at marriage.
Do you have any good YouTube links on hand per chance?
Her unique voice certainly takes getting used to, so I usually listen to other Middle Eastern artists. Fairouz still demands our respect and attention, given her very long and successful career and unquestionable talent.
J
John_Paul_Jones
Guest
Why can’t Catholics sing, as mused by Thomas Day in his book, Why Catholics Can’t Sing?
No just kidding, that’s not my real question.
Totally agree Catholic can’t sing, just look at the singers who are Catholic (or at least were raised Catholic) Lady Gaga, Madonna Ciccone, Nicole Scherzinger (lead singer of the Pussycat Dolls), Harry Connick Jr., Bruce Springsteen, Bono, Fergie, and Coco (Conan O’Brien can’t sing though he does have great falsetto) and worst of all Frank Sinatra.
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ChrisB103
Guest
The answer seems simple to me, so maybe I’m missing something. The Pope is the Bishop of Rome, so he could greet all of the Bishops in the world as “fellow bishops”, but this does not absolutely equate all of their offices. There are three basic offices in the hierarchy: bishop, priest, and deacon. Of these three, certainly Peter and the other elders would have fallen into the “bishop” category. Your thoughts?
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PJM
Guest
No just kidding, that’s not my real question.
GREAT Question:thumbsup:
The answer is because Popes, Cardinals, Archbishops and Bishops are ALL “Equals”. The Pope being “the first among equals”. The others having greater responsibilites that warrant greater authority [in a limited way.], hold titles of recogonization of there responsibilites.
One has seen several Popes, [maybe even many?] make a similar reference. Many Encyclicals and Letters of Apostolic Correction are adressed to ? My Brothers" or some such heading.
God Bless,
Pat
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